[identity profile] lunar-orchids.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] artists_beware
Recently a friend of mine purchased a joint ych where artist A did the lines and artist B did the coloring and shading. My friend auto bought two images from this joint ych selection out of the four possible.

Artist A delievered the edits to both the lineworks quickly for approval and was very approachable.

Artist B only contacted her when the works were finished. She supplied artist B two flat colored images of the characters coloring and one turned out beautiful. The colors were correct as were the details she asked for. Unfortunately the second image looked nothing like the character that was supplied for it.

When she noted artist B stating that they missed marking details and the shading was heavily off and looked rushed they got angry saying she should have supplied a shaded reference.

Now in all the years ive commissioned artists i have never heard of this before. Most artists want a flat ref and is it wrong of her to be upset that the artist didnt even ask if she did indeed have one?

The colors are extemely off and the markings are off as well. It really looks like the artist tried to do shotty work and get away with it and is using this as a cop out. Since they seem to al2ays be posting collab work and things.

Would shading seriously throw off colors that much? Her character is a very light dry sand color and the work supplied looked like dijon mustard almost and tbh it didnt look like there was shading supplied at all.

I feel bad for her. Is it wrong for her to assume if an artist needed more information they would ask?

Date: 2016-03-03 11:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
Colors, in short, are tricky.

I personally never color drop, because colors just don't work that way. What shade they look can change by the color of the background, or the color of the shading used.

However, in your case, if the actual base color is that far off then it shouldn't be an overreach to ask the artist to lighten the image. Or they can lighten their shading if it's making a muddy appearance.

Basically, it's fixable even if a few layers are flattened. (Though I do recommend to all artists they put each color on a separate layer just for this reason.) There shouldn't be a need for a "shaded ref". I've never heard of that in all of my years working in this fandom.
Edited Date: 2016-03-03 11:19 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-03-03 01:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kee santa (from livejournal.com)
Is it wrong for her to assume if an artist needed more information they would ask?
No. If this artist requires certain things, it was up to them to request it. I have never heard of needing a shaded ref though.

To echo Celestina, color and shading is tricky. Ambient light, shading tone and the background alter the way people perceive colors. I will color pick a flat reference, but asume the shading will always alter the temperature and feel of the base colors.

If the artist works with layers, it's not such a bad fix, color locking or minor sliding could be done assuming they are willing to fix it, if they did make a mistake and it's not just the overall tone of the picture. It wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for at least some lightening.

Date: 2016-03-03 02:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sian tiley (from livejournal.com)
Shaded Ref? Most of us hate Shaded Ref sheets , Honestly the artist is most likely just being defensive as they know they didn't take the time needed for the image.

Date: 2016-03-03 02:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] likeshine.livejournal.com

I've been doing commissions for a long long time. Never once heard anyone ask for a shaded ref. I personally hate shaded refs. Sounds like the second artist is just being defensive over making a mistake.

Date: 2016-03-03 03:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dinogrrl.livejournal.com
Shading/lighting can indeed change the color of a character quite a bit, which is why all the artists I know (myself included) want a flat color reference so they have the 'real' base color to work from. Sounds to me like the colorist can work just fine with flat color references, since the first image came out okay, and they're getting defensive about being called on their mistakes in the second image. If they really wanted a shaded reference they needed to state that up front.
Edited Date: 2016-03-03 06:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-03-03 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lostlatios.livejournal.com
By the nature of shading it can drastically change the colours of the character as that's how light works. If your shadows are an off purple the colours will react with the purple. So for example if your character is white the shaded areas will appear kind of purple. It would be easier to make a judgement if you post the images in question.

But as an artist I have never asked for a shaded ref nor do I expect one.

Date: 2016-03-03 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] poizenkat.livejournal.com
thats quite strange, i personally greatly dislike shaded references. I've gotten people who were picky about the colors used so i prefer to color pick directly from references and shading makes it very hard to do that not to mention the fact that sometimes its hard to tell whats markings and whats shading.
It can really depend on the colors used for the shading, though. I've seen darker characters look extremely bright and vice versa because of shading even though they were flat colored the correct colors.

Date: 2016-03-03 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahtaur.livejournal.com
Personally, the way that I colour changes the character's apparent colour every time. I favour coloured light schemes so a yellow character might take on a green tone in a blue pic, or a mustard tone in a warm pic like you said. Never have I had someone complain. My thought is that they are coming to me for a finished picture in the same vein as the work I usually do, not a reference sheet.

But, if they did complain, it would be extremely simple to fiddle with my colour sliders to the client's liking. There was no reason for Artist B to blow up at the customer - unless it was stated in the auction that no changes could be made after completion.

Date: 2016-03-03 05:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] houndofloki.livejournal.com
Shading can definitely change the apparent color of a figure, but so long as they still have their work file it shouldn't take long at all to knock down the yellow per the client's preference. Based on your comment that markings are missing and the overall work looks "shoddy", the colorist is probably just being defensive because they know this piece is not their best work.

If it were me in your friend's shoes, I'd probably just keep it respectful and businesslike (not gushing-overly-nice, because that will read as condescending) and reiterate what my specific issues with the work are. Don't just say it looks "shoddy", make sure you're clear about what you want to see changed.

Date: 2016-03-03 08:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chronidu.livejournal.com
Oh gosh no, I would never require a shaded ref to shade something properly??? Honestly in general I prefer flat colored refs and then I, as an artist, handle the values.

That said, I guess it depends on just how much of an edit it is? If, as Celestina said, its just too dark/light/unsaturated it should be an easy enough fix. If however it is just straight up wrong color wise, it could be a lot more of a task to correct.

That said, if it's just flat with shading layers on top??? yeah it should take all of 10 minutes to correct.

Date: 2016-03-04 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rayesesshyfan.livejournal.com
If the first one came out fine, I fail to see why the second one didn't come out the same. It sure sounds like artist B rushed it and is just making an excuse rather than fix it.

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