[identity profile] the-blackrook.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] artists_beware


WHO: Peridotkitty http://www.furaffinity.net/user/peridotkitty

WHERE: Furaffinity.net and Skype

WHAT: 42 page comic with a Cover ( $1500/$3150 paid )


WHEN: June2015- Present(March 2016)

PROOF:


  1. All payments

  2. First payment (Jun 14 2015)

  3. Second payment (Jun 28 2015)

  4. Third Payment (Aug 13 2015)

  5. fourth payment(Sep  29 2015)

  6. Incomplete cover work(From Peridotkitty's Trello): [COVER] NSFW

  7. Incomplete comic work(From Peridotkitty's Trello) [COMIC WORK][COMIC WORK 2]


EXPLAIN:

I work on an anthology comic project  with my fiance which is set to be published. Both of us work on comics for this as well as hire other artists. Artist hired receive a retainer fee( I pay this) to start them off before moving forward. With hiring artist we also gather funders to be a part of the comic.

There were three funders for Peridotkitty's comic (names are hidden at mods' request)

Funders were invoiced through my paypal (I work under LLC) and funds were sent to the artist.Payments for hired artist were sent monthly until the full project amount was paid unless the artist failed to produce enough progress in a timely matter at the funders discretion, that progress being a minimum of 2 completed pages per month. Now if certain uncontrollable life situations occured, we are understanding and  funders are notified of what's going on to give the artist appropriate time to recoup and catch up. If the required progression does not occur, then a refund is requested.

Bi-weekly check ups were also required in order to make sure proper progress had been made and to keep the funders happy. Help to the artist for anything was always offered and provided if needed including editing, storyboarding, and scripting.

The Beginning----------------

May 2015-June 2015

Discussion was made with Peridotkitty about the comic and how it would work out through furaffinity and eventually moving to skype.( Sadly,my notes will not appear past 1350 notes but logs are available [1][2])The agreed price was $75 per comic page(total of 42 pages) and a cover for $3150. During this process the idea of funders came about. Three were found and  the retainer was sent on June 14th and a second payment on June 28th [SKYPE LOG 1][CASTING JOURNAL]NSFW

More discussion was made about the comic and the script completion [SKYPE LOG 2] [SKYPE LOG 3]

Sent another payment on Jun 28 [SKYPE LOG 4]


July 2015-August 2015

References of the cast were provided in Peridotkitty's shared dropbox folder for the comic during this time.

Conversations were friendly  but quiet for July as my fiance and I were prepping for Anthrocon. Peridotkitty was contacted a bit about the dropbox progress folder set up for the funders which we shared with them to see the project progression. [SKYPE LOG 5]

Anthrocon came and went and there was little communication regarding the comic until August 6 [SKYPE LOG 6] [SKYPE LOG 7]

Correspondence during this month became harder and I believe this is due to Peridotkitty's Patreon  and her owing a lot more work due to it. I was understanding of this and explained this to the funders.Another monthly payment was sent to her. [SKYPE LOG 8] [SKYPE LOG 9]

No major progress was made to her sketches.

September 2015-October 2015

At this point we became worried. I started to inquire about whether she needed any assistance with her pages.Attempted contact was made and became more difficult.No progress other than the sketches  for the first couple of pages were done and Peridotkitty suggested that her public trello should be linked to the funders to keep their minds at ease. [SKYPE LOG 10][SKYPE LOG 11] [SKYPE LOG 12] [ SKYPE LOG 13]

On September 25th, project structure was being changed where the freelancers were to sign a contract. Peridotkitty read the contact and found it to be fair. There was a tiny error in the contract (Wrong comic title) but was edited. (Contract will not be linked unless requested).Terms of the contract required a minimum of 2 completed comic pages monthly, withholding of monthly funds if progress was unacceptable yet gave the artist a chance to catch up in a timely manner before being fired and requested a FULL refund. PeridotKitty was set to fax the form...but she was told to wait until further notice due to the high cost of collecting faxes from kinkos. [SKYPE LOG 14][SKYPE LOG 15][SKYPE LOG 16]

There was little to no response from Peridotkitty during October regarding the project and the funders were starting to get more agitated .On October 15th, she sent me a message that she had gotten a job which would take away more of her time [SKYPE LOG 17]

November 2015-December2015

During November I hired my assistant Carmel in helping with correspndence with the freelancers. Communication became more sparce and Peridotkitty was spending most of her time doing other commission work and streaming. [SKYPE LOG 18]

On November 15th, I dictated a note to Carmel to send to Peridotkitty seeing as contact with her through skype was becoming a major issue. In the note it was discussed the worry of the funders for the lack of progress and that monthly payments would be withheld until proper progress was made.[CARMEL NOTE 1]

November 18th, Peridotkitty got back to me about withholding funds. During this discussion she also talked about making turnarounds for the characters. (Please note that this is not part of the project but her own doing).  She even mentions that she was still refining the first page of the comic after months. [SKYPE LOG 19]

November 20th, Peridotkitty was contacted again about the contract and the possibility of mailing it.Peridotkitty never provided  the needed information. Afterwards the skype conversation fell silent. Rook dictated to Tia more notes to her on November 27th and two in December. [SKYPE LOG 20][CARMEL NOTE 2][CARMEL NOTE 3][CARMEL NOTE 4]


January 2016-February 2016

Funders were pretty much unhappy with the major lack of progress and were ready to ask for a full refund. Contact was attempted again on January 4th with no response. Another note was dictated for Carmel to send to Peridotkitty stating that this is the ultimatum to keep her job. She was to complete the first 3 pages of the comic by the end of January and the next 3 by the end of February. Peridotkitty got back to me on January 11th and requested color  armor references for one of the character as not having that stopped her progress. [CARMEL NOTE 5][SKYPE LOG 20]

January was a rough month for us due to personal matters and getting the colors took longer than we expected. They were added to the dropbox folder on [January 28th] and because of this she was given more time to work. She had to finish the first 3 pages by the end of Febrauary.But it must be said that during the month of January, all of her sketches for the first 3 pages were not refined as seen in her progress folder and in her trello. Not even inked. Flats were added to the cover but it still wasn't done. Peridotkitty gave more excuses which we tried explaining to the funders...but their patience was pretty much over. [SKYPE LOG 21][SKYPE LOG 22][TRELLO 1: COVER]NSFW[TRELLO 2: COMIC1][TRELLO 3:COMIC 2]

The pressure was on during February and I desperatly tried to get in contact with Peridotkitty. [SKYPE LOG 23]

March 2016
In this time frame of 9 months she added flats to the cover and did incomplete sketches for the first 3 pages. Not a single page was completed.

We decided to terminate Peridotkitty on March 20th and asked for a refend. During this correspondence Peridotkitty kept making excuses that not all of  this was her fault and that blame should also be placed on me . I was patient, I was understanding, and I defended her when talking to the funders and kept them informed of her life situations but the lack of major progress after months was enough.She had the resources to do what she needed to do but didn't. She mocked me for paying in advance, for not having a signed contract and my overall position.The question of a refund was not responded to.

What ensued was the following conversation:
[Firing note 1] Initial termination note

[Firing note 2]Peri's response. She takes little responsibility for not doing the work and adds the blame on me.

[Firing note 3]

[Firing note 4]

[Firing note 5][Firing note 6](Question about refund. Peridotkitty did not address this)

[Firing note 7][Firing note 8]
[Firing note 9]Peridotkitty's attitude quickly shifted

[Firing note 10]
[Firing note 11] Her last response in regards to a journal I made which has nothing to do with this transaction.

[Firing note 12] My last note to her where I cut off communication. I honestly had to step away.

All correspondence has since ceased.
On March 21st I filed a claim with paypal. Sadly only $700 of the money could be disputed.

The claim was [closed on March 23rd] as Peridotkitty told paypal that ALL work was completed up til March and that I was just being an unsatisfied customer.This was through a  phone call and we are requesting an email of what she said to post here.

Paypal did not contact us to hear our side when making their decision so I filed an appeal.

March 24th, our appeal was also closed and none of the money will be sent back.

I am not fully blameless and there are things that should have been handled better. I dont think there's much of a legal standing in regards to the new contract...but that doesn't justify keeping money for work not completed from 3 people.A partial refund would be fine but after her insulting responses towards me I felt that I wouldn't be able to get a decent conversation out of her.

Funders were notified of the loss and have been understanding and I am more than thankful for this. This is a huge lesson learned.I accept any critisim on my part to help me in my dealings in the future.

[EDIT]------------

March 23, 2015

I forgot to add the final note she sent me in response to Firing Note 12

[Firing note 13]

March 25,2016 edit

Firing note 3 above has the wrong link. Correct link is below.

[Firing note 3]

March 26, 2016 update----

Peridotkitty has posted her side of this situation here and on her FA . Apparently her fiance was the one who sent the malicious notes against me (Firing note 9 and onward). Whether I believe it or not is another thing.I have discussed with my fiance the possibility of a repayment plan and she has left a message to her.

"Rook was unwilling to deal with you at all... seeing as how an apology about how you or 'your fiancee' acted at the end; I'm sure everyone here can understand why. I wonder why you didn't put those up there so your fans can have context on why he stopped communicating with you all together. But if you are serious, it isn't about paying him back, it's about taking care of the 3 funders. He is willing to let you set up a payment plan of a reasonable monthly amount to the 3 funders. You can contact me for their information. He says you can pay back one their 575 and the other their 600 for a total of 1175. And that he will settle up the remaining balance with the 3rd funder himself writing off that amount as service rendered. It's more than you've done but he's going to make a show of faith as well as responsibility. He would like you to publically keep track of the repayment to those two funders, he also wants them to get the full 600 and 575, so you would be on the hook for the transaction fee amount as well."

March 26, 2016 update 2----

Terms have been agreed to and Peridotkitty has been given the funder' pages to get their paypal information.Monthy payments are being scheduled. Although these terms have been agreed upon, I will not mark this post as resolved until both funders are completely refunded. I will be handling the 3rd funder's refund myself.

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Date: 2016-03-25 03:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
I-

wow, just wow.

There was plenty that could be done in the meantime. The script was done. Pages could have been storyboarded for pacing. Inks could have been completed, and even basic shading.

I just don't buy that nothing could be done in the meantime. And those last notes? Utterly unprofessional to the point where I'm flabbergasted.

And being untruthful to Paypal is just the icing on the cake. I've never said beware well warranted and meant it so much.

Date: 2016-03-25 03:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayla-la.livejournal.com
I think what gets me is that, for all intents and purposes, she's saying this happened and it's your fault because you trusted her.

She personally insults your intelligence for thinking she would do the work in a reasonable time frame and paying her ahead of time. That's so strange to me. She calls you stupid for trusting that she was legit.

Have you tried calling paypal about this situation? Their phone support is -far- better than their internet support. That said, I suppose it's a costly lesson in making sure you get the contracts signed before any pay is given.

But mostly, I just don't get how she can put this all on you and feel no guilt, here. My conscience would be eating me from the inside out.

Date: 2016-03-25 04:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chronidu.livejournal.com
This literally sums up anything I could think to say. I have no clue how a person could do all this, steal money, and then be able to find sleep at night.

I'm going to second calling paypal, they tend to be very easy to talk to and ready to listen. Even despite crippling phone anxiety they have saved my butt more than once. I've found with email and online correspondence little tends to be done.

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From: [identity profile] kayla-la.livejournal.com - Date: 2016-03-25 05:18 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] mistresswolf.livejournal.com - Date: 2016-03-26 02:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2016-03-25 04:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoop-zi.livejournal.com
hold up- she really finds it "silly" that she was paid up front? what kind of logic is that? no one forced her to take on this project. you can either take on a project or you can't, and if you end up in over your head, that's on you- all you can do is refund your clients and move on. and if you can't, then maybe don't spend the money before you produce the work. that's silly.

all you asked for in this situation was a little professionalism and she threw it in your face, and that is appalling. beware well warranted- i hope for your sake and the sake of everyone else stuck in this mess that this situation can come to some sort of favorable resolution.

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Re: Note added

Date: 2016-03-25 05:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayla-la.livejournal.com
Goodness me, if she were any more condescending in those notes, she could be exploring the astral planes.

Re: Note added

From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com - Date: 2016-03-25 05:23 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2016-03-25 05:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rueq.livejournal.com
Those last notes.. wow. I would struggle to keep my cool with somebody condescending me like that. That is so rude and unnecessary. How can this happen and she walks away with $1500, and there's nothing you can do about it? Awful behaviour and character.

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Date: 2016-03-25 05:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bamwowza.livejournal.com
WOW
You handled that way better than I ever could. I'm also so sorry this happened to you.

I see they have the "Trusted-Artists" icon on their page & are on their following list, honestly, I would fill out one of their "removal forums" to help other people from having to deal with this experience.

Date: 2016-03-25 06:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fear-eater.livejournal.com
The fact that they have even gone as far as gloating about it being ruled in their favor on their FA page, is more unsettling. Furthermore, their followers have also since rallied with them in regards to the whole situation.

The fact that you invested into this project only to get slapped like this is low on behalf of them, Paypal, and any other parties included. You provided clear-cut facts, and it is presumed to be all accurate and the truth.

Unfortunately, it just seems as if they'd enjoy watching you suffered and be able to afford their food in the process (also gloated about in their FA journal). There are two sides to every story, but they have already showed their true colors and intent well enough to say who's side I'd be willing to stand on. I hope this matter gets resolved for you.

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Date: 2016-03-25 06:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neolucky.livejournal.com
Absolutely appalled by her behavior, there is NO reason for that kind of attitude. In the future, it would be best to keep contracts and piece out this sort of work little by little, paying for small chunks at a time so you won't be burned again =\ this is terrible.

I hope this artist understands how rotten they look, because there is nothing that's going to scrub away this kind of unprofesisonalism.

Date: 2016-03-25 08:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foreveranonymus.livejournal.com
Her attitude is absolutely abhorrent, promptly unwatched. Here's hoping Paypal comes through, because this is ridiculous...
Also, seconding the "trusted-artists" thing, this behavior is not that of a trusted artist

Date: 2016-03-25 09:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fawkatronic.livejournal.com
She is trying to say that she said she read the contract but did not agree. However, she read the contract, then continued talking business with you and doing the work. That implies agreement, if she did not agree with the contract she would have stopped work and either broke off the deal or negotiated the terms.

Under the law, she agreed to the contract by acting out the work after having read it.

Date: 2016-03-25 09:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scamps.livejournal.com
Just something to note: 'Firing note 3' actually links to the 'Trello_cover' image again.

Date: 2016-03-25 09:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com
Echoing calling paypal- again- and escalating, because this is crap. Regardless of whether it was a signed, faxed physical copy or emails, or via skype, you still had a contract.

When she took on the project, when she accepted and spent the money, and began work, that is a contract. By taking the money and beginning the art, she has effectively entered into an agreement to render services.

Your only other recourse aside from calling paypal is to take her to court, and I don't know if that's feasible.

Her last few notes are just appalling; she launched right into full-on trolling. Extremely unprofessional, not to mention rude.

ETA: Aw crap, mods, I got linked to kayla-na's comment via skype and didn't realize that journal was this same situation (I didn't read it). I commented to her before I saw this post and just now realized :|
Edited Date: 2016-03-25 09:16 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-03-25 09:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bourbon. (from livejournal.com)
This is outright appalling. Jesus. Especially her attitude regarding it. Just floored that someone can treat a paying client like that and get away with it.



Also, there are people posting links to this all over her page.

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From: [identity profile] bourbon. - Date: 2016-03-25 09:50 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com - Date: 2016-03-25 01:28 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2016-03-25 12:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] epiceternity.livejournal.com
When you paid her, was if from what was it from money in the paypal account or did you use paypal to pay from your bank account or bank card? If it's the latter then you may be able to open a case with your bank.

If not and you have no joy with paypal the other option would be to open a small courts claim. While it's a big stressful hassle and you might only get a small chunk of money back after costs, the amount you paid her would make it an option to pursue.

Date: 2016-03-25 12:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com
I would keep trying paypal, even if they ruled in her favor.

(frozen) Mod Comment

Date: 2016-03-25 01:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
For outsiders of this post who are reading this, or first timers to A_B:

We absolutely do not condone harassment of the artist via spamming their page or journal comments with this link. It hurts the credibility of the site and constitutes as harassment. We will issue permanent bans for this kind of behavior.

Date: 2016-03-25 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] damien bennett (from livejournal.com)
Ahh, I see instead of messaging peri and organising a PAYMENT PLAN Which you never organised for her to pay you back in the first place you decided to just post her here instead. Well done good sir, Pitty your not stating that you Didn't try and message her about organising a payment plan, you just went straight to Paypal to try and get it back. lol

Date: 2016-03-25 02:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liptonfa.livejournal.com
People here don't like defending the artists, it's always just blaming and shaming...

But yeah I also don't see anything about asking her for a payment plan instead of just going instantnly on paypal and claim everything.

And now some artists gonna block me because I said something in favor of the artist here, is always funny. But yeah I see it like ebay, if a person has a lot good recommendations and only a few bad ones everoyne here would still buy from them or?
I support Peridot for quite a while and have only good experience with her and I will continue to support her =)
Edited Date: 2016-03-25 02:29 pm (UTC)

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Date: 2016-03-25 04:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enn shaw (from livejournal.com)
DUDE. Whoever the fuck is posting the A_B link to the artist's page, STOP. It's harassment, and the comm can get into trouble. The last thing everyone wants is this comm to be shut down because of someone trying to spread drama this way.

To the OP, my heart breaks for you that you went through this x_x

Date: 2016-03-25 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
We're already trying to handle it in the background.

Edit: Looks like they've deleted the links thus far. Thanks to folks who know us and spoke up.
Edited Date: 2016-03-25 04:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-03-25 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragontripmon.livejournal.com
Wow that journal as well as the one before it really shows her true colors. Really does'nt help matters at unprofessional behavior of the artist.

And Damien making arguments like that is really a poor excuse. The artist could have posted their side as well but so far it's clear they don't want to and the evidence against them is pretty strong.

Though i really don't understand the trusted artist group on FA considering quite a few of the bewares over the years have come from that group and have not seen anyone of those who have posted trying to turn things around.

Date: 2016-03-25 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
This is the second version of the group, I think. The original Trusted Artists went inactive and didn't keep up with their list.

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Date: 2016-03-25 07:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] latiro.livejournal.com
I've just unwatched Peridotkitty when I read this post last night. Her two journals about the matter are just immature, let alone unprofessional (especially the "spiky dildo" one).

And agreeing with dragontripmon, that Damien's arguments are starting to get ridiculous here and are not helping him any.

Beware well warranted and it certainly doesn't surprise me that Trusted-Artists banned her from their group for her bad business/attitude.

Date: 2016-03-25 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jinoki.livejournal.com
Seconding that it would have been a better idea to pay for a big project like this in smaller chunks, but it is also unacceptable that the artist is refusing to at least give a partial refund or work something out if they cannot finish what has been started.

'Terms of the contract required a minimum of 2 completed comic pages monthly, withholding of monthly funds if progress was unacceptable yet gave the artist a chance to catch up in a timely manner before being fired and requested a FULL refund.'

These however are REALLY iffy terms. If an artist has made some progress it is not fair to them to ask for a full refund. They have to at least be paid for what they have gotten done. Honestly I feel like this could have been avoided with better management on both ends. I am also a little confused why the artist took a large scale comic commission when it looks like they haven't done comics before or why an artist who hasn't done comics was the one chosen for such a project.

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Date: 2016-03-25 08:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clockmagic.livejournal.com
All I can say is, I hope the artist and customer here can be reasonable with each other and work something out. Refund in payments or something.
Whomever is going about trying to defend the artist might be making matters worse for them, so I hope they consider toning it back as bit as well.
In the end again, I hope this gets resolved so the artist can get out of this with as little problems as possible and the customer gets their refund or finished commission (whichever it's decided they do).

Date: 2016-03-25 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com
Must say I'm a little peeved at the people who are taking it outside the community. I know we can't exactly control them, but this does not really help anyone, especially the jackal guy.
Edited Date: 2016-03-25 09:53 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-03-26 01:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sapphistscot.livejournal.com
Absolutely disgusting behaviour from this artist. And I'm disappointed in Paypal too - I always thought they protected the buyer. They've let plenty of fraudulent chargebacks through, but not a legitimate claim for a large sum of money? I would definitely keep chasing it with them.

Date: 2016-03-26 03:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rueq.livejournal.com
Peridot posted a response journal - http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/7467366/ (not impressed by the way she's responding to negative comments against her, smh).

Date: 2016-03-26 03:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayla-la.livejournal.com
I just don't understand how she can continue to think she looks like she was being reasonable in those last moments of contact. She resorted to namecalling and making fun of his english, why would he have any reason to think she's interested in refunding and working things out?

I just don't get it. I would have assumed I was being denied a refund too once my artist started calling me stupid and replying with weird short quips about loving Jesus. I think any reasonable person would have assumed the same and also would have wanted to drop contact at that point.

I'm pretty disappointed that this is the route she's choosing to take, in the end.

EDIT: And I just noticed her calling people stupid in her journal comments, too. Goodness me.
Edited Date: 2016-03-26 03:58 am (UTC)

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