[identity profile] ventkazemaru.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] artists_beware
First time posting here so I got no clue if this is the right thing to do.

So some person noted me to draw some undertale style art. Okay alright, I can handle it. I notice at the end of the note he said,
"Don't ask anything I have already explained. Waiting for a price, thank you."
I have to admit this is a rule I have on my general page, but not for art. I'm not sure how anyone can work with minimal information or without even clarification from their client.

I accepted it at first since this is seems to be pretty straight forward regardless.
Then he immediately sends me money. Despite me saying nothing about pricing and the fact he even asked for a price in the initial note.

This is immediately violating my commission terms, you only pay when the sketch is done.
I say I cannot do this commission as he violated my terms.

I then get a response that I've always been a difficult artist to work with and he doesn't care about the money. I not even sure what he means by professional business, he broke my terms, I have to uphold them. Somehow I'm not professional to him.

I ask some questions on how I should do his commission after all this. But it seems to me he doesn't really care and just wants me to draw something.

I honestly don't know what to do at this point. I've been civil the entire way. I already canceled the commission and returned the money, but he seems to expect me to still do it after all this. this person has commissioned me before without a hitch, from my view anyway. I don't know what's wrong.

http://imgur.com/a/rCUlC

Date: 2015-12-31 12:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
Once the money has been returned you are not obligated to do a thing. Nor are you obligated to give a reason for not wanting to continue the commission. I would have found the client's initial note off-putting too. If they had set a price with me before I had the chance to state my own, I would have refunded and walked away too. What if they just flat out sent too low of an amount? It's... bizarre.

From this point you can simply state that the money has been returned and that you will not be continuing. If they persist, block them.

Date: 2015-12-31 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gatekat.livejournal.com
My take:
At this point I would stop worrying about what's wrong.
Stop all communication. Do not reply to any contact.
Personally, I'd blacklist them on every site I'm on.

This started bad and is only going to get worse if you allow it to continue.

Everything you put here is a red flag pointing to someone out to cause unending trouble for you for personal reasons.

As a buyer it is inexcusable to commission someone you find difficult. There isn't an artist out there that can not be done without.

Date: 2015-12-31 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] adzuki.livejournal.com
Red flag. You already gave him the money back and refused the commission. Whether you did business with this person before or not has no baring on this. You do not owe previous or new clients your time if they cannot abide by your terms. If you allow them leeway this time they may very well ignore your terms the next time as well.

In the end it is up to you what you do, but by the sounds of it you don't want to do this commission. You have the right to refuse service. If they don't understand that and continue to hassle you, a block may be neccessary.

Date: 2015-12-31 12:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kontonakuma.livejournal.com
Wow he got really rude fast, and all you did was tell him was he was breaking your ToS

You have no obligation to do the work for him if you don't want to, as long as you do not keep the money. I'm echoing refund if you haven't and move on. If they continue pestering you, block them everywhere they contact you. I wouldn't want to continue business with someone who gives that attitude when they're told nicely to follow the ToS

*edit cause I forgot a couple words*
Edited Date: 2015-12-31 12:41 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-12-31 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kazeno-taka.livejournal.com
Oh yikes, tons of red flags. You did exactly the right thing by refunding him and refusing to take the commission. I'd ask him to not contact you again and then cut all communication - don't respond to any more of his notes or emails, block him on FA or other art sites.

EDIT: Disregard the previous comment about 'penalties', I misread and thought that was him saying that to you in regards of you canceling the commission.
Edited Date: 2015-12-31 12:49 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-12-31 01:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frisket17.livejournal.com
Block them and share his name so we can avoid like death plague :|


As others have stated, you've told them no. You've returned money. You are under no obligations to them further.
I also find it rather odd (rude?) that they ask for a price then tell you what they'll pay. You aren't a Pay What You Want person, or even a fast food place.
They want it their way on discount, send them to burger king :p

Their whole attitude 'It's probably your income' seems highly condescending. You handled it with more tact than I probably would have. I think the patronizing attitude hits me more than assuming prices or jumping the gun on payment.

Date: 2015-12-31 01:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cyiakanami.livejournal.com
It really seems like he is being rushed or is expecting this commissions asap because something bad might happen. It reminds me of someone paying someone for something illegal and them glancing over their shoulder constantly waiting for cops to show up and them getting impatient and shoving money and demands at the person.

I am curious, did they speak this way to you when they commissioned you the last time? Did it feel rude or demanding at all? Was the pay source the same? It almost feels like the person that contacted you was trying to hide something or spend his money super fast etc.

If anything, I echo the previous comments. Put your foot down, back away and block if necessary.

Date: 2015-12-31 02:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tylociraptor.livejournal.com
"you're a bad businessperson and I have had issues with commissioning you before"

"...But do this icon and then another after it"

Yeah, no. refund, firmly explain you aren't willing to work with him and if any further money is sent it will be considered a donation.

Date: 2015-12-31 02:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] totschrei.livejournal.com
Would there be a way to post a beware about this person or inform us through PM about them?
That rudeness came out of nowhere!

Date: 2015-12-31 02:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayla-la.livejournal.com
Please do not ask for PMs in this manner, as advice posts are meant to be anonymous, and one 'PM me' tends to turn into several.

The OP is free to submit a beware, of course, though there's no guarantee it will be posted.

Date: 2015-12-31 07:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] totschrei.livejournal.com
I'm sorry it wasn't meant as a "hey pm me now I want to know" Kind of statement. More of asking if it was possible to be informed if they would submit a beware or if they felt a beware isn't needed if they wouldn't mind sending pm to those who may want to avoid them.

Again I apologize :(

Date: 2015-12-31 04:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottalottosay.livejournal.com
Uh, this just confuses me. Why would he continue to work with somebody and consider giving them a tip if he found them difficult to work with? Also, I notice your Terms of Service says $25 minimum, but the commissioner pretty much names their own price. I'm not really sure why you said it's $10. Discounts? But on the other hand, why would he send money after asking about the price and not receiving an answer yet? The terms also says you and the commissioner need to agree on the price, which he didn't give you the chance to do. So that doesn't mean it was going to be $25. To be honest, I get why he would pay you so fast, but it is definitely okay of you to defend your Terms of Service and even cancel the commission. I understand both sides of the story, but he did violate the terms, and to be honest, some things he did and said personally seemed kind of off to me. I feel like it's best if you both go your separate ways. You don't seem to communicate or get along very well. Just make sure you refunded him and explain to him that you're just not going to do it anymore. Period. If he persists, well, that's kind of too bad. You already cancelled, and you don't need to talk to him anymore. You're not obligated to do the commission.

Date: 2015-12-31 05:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enn shaw (from livejournal.com)
Block and submit a beware. If you refused and refunded them, you are under no obligation to do anything for them.

Date: 2015-12-31 10:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darmit.livejournal.com
Wow. Just...wow. Yeah, block, refund, do whatever. If he sends the money back then consider it a donation. A beware would also be warranted.

Date: 2015-12-31 02:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kadaria.livejournal.com
>I then get a response that I've always been a difficult artist to work with and he doesn't care about the money<

I just wanted to let you know that this seems to be a common tactic to put guilt on the wrong party. I recently left a job months ago and submitted a counter offer which gives your current employer a chance to keep you rather than going through the expense of hiring and training a new person. The email I got back said that I had always been difficult to work with and that I could ask for a raise at any time, and I was not as great a VMT as I thought I was, etc...

The bottom line was I had been in meetings, emails and talks with my boss for 9 months leading up to that point. In that time I had asked for a schedule change (I was working every weekend) and for a raise (I was being very underpaid for my area) with no changes. I was not the difficult one, she was. But when a better offer came along she had no problem trying to put the onus on me.
So don't let them get to you. There are better people out there for you to deal with.

Date: 2015-12-31 05:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thaily.livejournal.com
Sort of reminds me of "negging", give negative "compliments" to try and make someone feel like they owe you something and should be grateful. In the "dating" scene it's often something like "You're pretty, for a fat chick."

I kind of feel like this falls into the same category, but it's "You're difficult to work with, but I let you draw me anyway." maybe in the hopes the artist can be tricked into feeling bad and maybe giving free art or something?

I'd advise everyone who runs into this sort of thing, in any context, to promptly ignore the person trying to neg you. They are never worth your time and attention.

Date: 2015-12-31 05:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thaily.livejournal.com
You gave them a refund, you don't owe them anything. They're only trying to make you feel as though you do, don't let them manipulate you. If it works on you, he'll try it on other artists if he doesn't already.

If you've already started a sketch, anonymize it (change species, gender etc.) and sell it as a YCH commission.

Date: 2016-01-01 07:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kipaki.livejournal.com
oh i know who this is, and i'm...very surprised. They commissioned me and were very patient/friendly, and im a person who asks tons of questions and clarifications. This is wild to see honestly; doesn't even seem like the same person.
either way, everyone else has already said what needs to be said.

Date: 2016-01-01 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neolucky.livejournal.com
Yikes. Make sure to block and do not work with them ever again, and absolutely do NOT do the work they tried to push you into doing! Absolutely rude right out of the gate, you stuck by your guns and that's awesome.

Date: 2016-01-02 12:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lavenderpandy.livejournal.com
This...is so strange to me. This behavior. Seriously uncalled for and rude. Good on you for staying professional all the way.

Stick to your guns and cease any further communication. If they persist, then have them blocked.

Date: 2016-01-02 01:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thejackaolf.livejournal.com
Yeah no, the attitude alone I wouldn't have worked with them, but with that, the insult to you, and breaking your TOS, Block and submit a proper beware (if you feel up to it) cause I think most of us would love to avoid this ray of sunshine.

Date: 2016-01-02 03:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] laughsatthunder.livejournal.com
The whole thing made me more and more uncomfortable as it progressed. Please write an A_B on them; it would be in your best interest to refund and block the individual. They would have such a hard time backing up their behavior in this situation.

Date: 2016-01-02 12:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tyrano-tiggs.livejournal.com
"Don't ask me anything I haven't already explained"
Wow, I'd have declined based on that alone. So what if you weren't clear on something? What if I wanted to know exactly where your antenna were located on your head before I put them in the centre, you won't let me ask you and inevitably you message me back after completion to tell me they should be off centre/near the outside?

You dodged a bullet there; re-iterating refund, block then beware. If they send the money back, refund it again and let them know any further payment will be taken as donation and no work done.

Date: 2016-01-03 12:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lucifinia.livejournal.com
Well, doesn't this person seem entitled.

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