Paypal Policy Change!

[neive.livejournal.com]

I just got an email today that Paypal is going to be updating its policies, and I noticed two things will significantly help people who use Paypal for commissions stay protected! I figured this would be a good place to share just in case not everybody gets those emails. :)

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

And from their highlist post in my email for those who want a shorter version:

"And last but not least, you'll see some updates to our User Agreement that go into effect November 18, 2014. If you're interested in all the details, take a look at our Policy Updates Page. Here are the highlights:

• We're increasing the time for buyers to file merchandise disputes (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days.

• We're extending buyer protection to include item not received claims for custom made products.

• Because PayPal Seller Protection and Buyer Protection policies may vary from country to country, we're adding language to clarify which country's policy applies when a seller makes a sale to a buyer outside of the U.S.

If you use PayPal after the date these changes become effective, we will take that usage as your consent to the changed terms.

Feel free to contact us with questions through the Contact link at the bottom of any page.

Sincerely,

The PayPal Privacy and Compliance Team"

Comments

[adzuki.livejournal.com]

That is pretty awesome to have that time increase on disputes!

[signy.livejournal.com]

Ooh. I really like the extension on claim periods. 45 days isn't always enough time to judge commission progress or completion by, especially for a larger piece. A cushion of 180 is fantastic.

[martes.livejournal.com]

For artists, always use some sort of tracking, delivery confirmation or registered mail, so the buyer can't claim 'it never got there.'

[whoop-zi.livejournal.com]

ohh this is good news *u* thanks for posting!

[hidden-kyuubi.livejournal.com]

Also good in the BJD community if you accidentally buy a recast or the like(the extended talks about it further) since it's been a big issue.
I'm glad people have more time, since with art and fursuits and the like it can be especially important.

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

Aaa this is really good news for buyers, I just hope people don't end up abusing this for chargebacks months later.

[mpd-84.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...

13.3 Ineligible Items. PayPal Purchase Protection only applies to PayPal payments for certain tangible, physical goods. Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

Intangible items, including Digital Goods

So no more forcing a refund on digital stuff at all apparently, unless you will still be able to go through your bank/credit card.

Urf. Reading the whole list. There's a lot on there that gets talked about here. Like goods you pick up yourself and Significantly Not As Described issues for Custom-made items...

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

Man, if people abuse the added time and it forces Paypal to roll back to 45 days, I will not be a happy camper to say the least.

[dazen-cobalt.livejournal.com]

Ditto. That's what I am concerned about. As great as it is I can see it being abused significantly

[niimou.livejournal.com]

Paypal never covered intangible goods so this one isn't new. Wen I don't have a head cold I plan to figure out what this stuff aboug which country's rules get used though, that seems potentially problematic.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Great. Now I get to worry for 180 days instead of 45.
it's great an all but with the rush of chargebacks becoming a trend this really doesn't sit well with me.

Even with proof, providing the finished image and calling paypal I've always lost these scam chargeback cases.

[dragroons.livejournal.com]

As TK said, this is sort of upsetting from a Artist's standpoint.. as we are hardly able to ever dispute a chargeback when it's false or scam related. :/

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I thought the same thing immediately. Glad I wasn't the only one.

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

Yep. Time to protect myself better by sending the full res image on cd. PITA but...gotta do what we gotta do.

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

Question about that actually... do you HAVE to use the "print shipping label" function?


PP says when I make the label I purchase it automatically, but I can see two problems:

1- I don't have time to see the amount before I commit to paying for it. How am I supposed to ensure my client actually pays it?

2- Canada Post is stupid and their website consistently gives a different rate than their counters. Generally it's a few bucks so whatever no prob, but if it's something major I don't want to have to argue with my client, or have the package returned to me for insufficient postage.


Currently, I send everything with a tracking#, provide it in the email convo and chose signature required whenever humanly possible. Hoping that's good enough, I've never had problems yet.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

On the one hand the extended claim period will be great for people unfortunate enough to buy fursuits/fursuit parts/custom items from sellers who don't deliver like HinaUchi. On the other hand, I can totally see it being abused by scammers to get out of paying for digital art. Paypal really needs to differentiate between tangible goods and digital goods.

[martes.livejournal.com]

I don't use the print label function, mainly for practical reasons (my printer is unreliable). But I honestly don't know if it's the only way to protect yourself if someone claims the item never got there.

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm not alone in hating it then, lol

Well, I'll keep on keeping on and if something horrible happens I'll mention it here. In the meantime, I mean... signature required!! I know PP is derpy but if I've got my client going "yay it's here!" in the email and their signature online... yeah.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

You don't have too I don't believe, you can use the post office and track it through them and if someone disputes you can share the tracking information in your reply to the dispute that it was delivered.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

If you keep all your shipping records with tracking information you can prove the item was delivered even months later and the dispute won't go through.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

Or just get a print of it sent to them, you can always add a "hard copy fee" of a few bucks to your prices for that. To make it at least not lose you money

I spend more on buying through paypal than I get receiving money and i love the time extension.

I'm still peeved it doesn't cover digital goods though to protect digital artists.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

You should be able to add tracking information into the payment somehow (not sure how... but I've done it before, a long time ago).

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

They've never covered digital items, which is why I'm always furious when people get charged back/Paypal claimed on what they consider "digital goods" (i.e. art that's delivered digitally!), and the "goods" has already been delivered.

[niimou.livejournal.com]

True that. I've heard of cases where the artist escalated to their own claim and pointed out the buyer protection doesn't apply and it worked out, but I think now PP is just shrugging their shoulders and saying it's not their problem since you don't qualify for seller protection anyway. Which...is true. The more I read up on it the more selling digital art through PP sounds like a terrible idea given their ToS. It's the credit card companies that decide the outcome anyway, and they are more interested in keeping customers and protecting THEM from fraud.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Most people live with others, or parents, some being nosy and wouldn't be at all ok with something sent in the mail. Especially with adult art or clean but fetishes they don't want people to know.

[niimou.livejournal.com]

But digital goods flat out aren't covered and that's starting to bite artists in the butt.

You can add addresses to your Paypal for approval. Maybe a sympathetic friend or a PO box would do the trick.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Yes, but you'd lose a lot of business by making someone get a physical copy, and I know I can't afford that. Or they'd complain they were charged for it even though they didn't want it.

I'd be awesome to have a friend to send to, but not everyone has a place they can send to, and I don't have money to rent a PO box.

[niimou.livejournal.com]

Probably best to start self-insuring against chargebacks then. What I mean is put a dollar or two from every commission away specifically for the times someone grabs the money back. It won't help lost profits (unless you add this to the price of all commissions) but at least it hopefully won't turn into a financial crisis for you.

[mortymaxwell.livejournal.com]

I agree with SBNeko. The people I live with are nosy. They're always opening stuff that comes to the house and I would not be comfortable with an artist insisting that I pay for a print or CD. There'd be the additional print costs...plus international shipping. I wouldn't do business with an artist who had these policies in place.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I've used tracking before, but never get any sort of message back :/

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Maybe some kind of SFW postcard instead? Wouldn't cost much and they'd have received something? There's blank postcards people could draw on too. Just a quick doodle.

[martes.livejournal.com]

You don't get any sort of message from tracking. You need to enter the tracking # into the post office website, and that gives you the current status of the package.