Paypal fees?

[korsetkoat.livejournal.com]

This has already been been discussed in this community before- who should pay the fee, the commissioner or the artist? The general agreement seems to be, factor paypal fees into your initial commission price to cover it, because it is the artist who should pay the fees and not the commissioner, as by PayPal's TOS. However, there are many artists I've met who do not seem to have read/know PayPal's TOS and their prices are not factored for the fees.

What should a commissioner/artist do in a situation where, a commissioner sends money thinking an artist has factored in fees, but in fact hasn't payed what the artist was wanting (i.e., an artist wants 4.00$, they only get 3.58$)? It seems like one of those situations that could get ugly if not treated with care. Which is why so far I, as a commissioner, have been paying fees most of the time when buying a commission.

Would the artist have the right to withhold artwork until the full fee has been paid? Or does the commissioner have the right to the commission because it is the artist's own hindsight and ignorance that got them out of some money? I haven't had this situation myself yet but I feel as though this kind of thing will happen at one point or another. Is it a courtesy for the commissioner to send more money despite the TOS or should the artist, well, just suck it up because it is due to their own ignorance of the TOS?

Edit; I suppose the easiest solution for an artist who will not give you art until you pay more money is to open a dispute.

However, let's say you told them all this but they ignore your warning about the TOS. Should you report someone for breaking the TOS by making your customers pay the fees? Is there even a way to do so?

Comments

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

This comment is perfect.

[fishy-boner.livejournal.com]

I always look at paypal fee like paying tax. Yah know, you get a job @ 9/hr, but after they take taxes out its 8.45/hr kinda thing. Everyone wants their cut.

Most times I eat the paypal fee, and just tell people, "tipping is nice, but not necessary"

Re: Only 3%

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

That's only the price if you're American though. Offhand they charge me a lot more simply because I'm in the UK and that is without conversion.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Not to mention their security is lousy and forged Western Union payslips are common.

It's a common scam for a scammer to "send" more than the price via a forged Western Union payslips to someone, ask them to refund the scammer the extra, then the forgery is discovered and the scammed person is out money because the forgery is worthless.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Pretty much every merchant includes their overheads in the price of things you buy. A store has to pay rent, heating, lighting, AC, wages, taxes and quite a few other things. Those are all factored into the base cost of anything you buy apart from loss leaders (which are deliberately priced at a loss to attract you into the store).

An artist has to pay for materials, electric, their rent, and quite a few other things other than time and equipment, those also get factored into the cost. Paypal is one of those costs that should be factored in, why? Because it's not just convenient for the artist.

If a customer of mine opts not to pay via paypal then they have to go out of their way to send me a check, postal order or a different method of payment and they have to wait for it to clear since I won't start work until it's cleared.

If their Post office is far away from them then after they've factored in gas cost, the cost of their time to fill out and send a cheque/Postal order and the cost of mailing, it probably works out to more than paypal fees could ever be for a transaction.

So yeah, the choice is yours, a slightly higher cost for artwork due to the factoring of overheads including banking costs or getting a discount for other payment methods but having to fork out for gas, fees and spend your own time to send an artist money to work for you?

[keeote.livejournal.com]

Your sarcasm is not appreciated.

I'm also positive you've gotten your facts confused. Are you sure you haven't gotten it confused with Western Union Money Transfer code thing?

I am talking about the Money Order. It's a piece of paper that is banked like a cheque. When I don't want to pay with PayPal, I go to my Post Office. A Western Union Money order costs $6.00AUD only, and you can put up to $1000USD on it.

Mail it off to the receiver, and they bank it at their Local Bank Branch. End of story.

[jurann.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I wish the gov't was only taking $0.55/hr our of $9/hr! Not sure where you're at, but here in California it's more like your rate is $9/hr but you only get $5.85/hr in take home after the outrageous 37% income tax rate. =P Speaking of taxes though, out of all the furry artists who make more than $400 per year in profit from it, I wonder how many are legally reporting and filing that income for tax purposes...

[jurann.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, you're correct there, I thought you were talking about Western Union "Wire Transfers". $6 for a money order that can only be cashed in the US and Canada at a Western Union counter, which is likely to charge ANOTHER fee? Still sounds like a huge scam to me! Most US and Canadian banks give money orders for FREE or for a trivial $0.25 each cost, and they can be cashed at ANY bank anywhere in the world. Further, if your Post Offices in Australia only offer Western Union money orders, then your WHOLE COUNTRY is getting scammed! In the US our post offices have their own money orders, which can be cashed in almost any post office around the world, though apparently Australia is one of the few nations whose post offices will NOT cash them, it sounds like it's because Western Union has a stranglehold on your post system. Still a scam, just in your country they've made it sound like it's not...

[fishy-boner.livejournal.com]

damn, 37%..HA! thats insane. Its like 4~5% here.
As for income tax purposes, it really depends on what state you live in, a few don't have state income tax, like Texas, feds still want their cut. Most conventions require a state tax license, I am pretty sure California was only 7%, maybe 9% to sell at FC. In the current state I live in I have to do monthly tax reports, and pay quarterly, coarse I am doing more then just private commissions....But I do wonder that myself...

[kadaria.livejournal.com]

I thought it was pretty repetitive myself but I also thought that this was common sense with people who used paypal or any other kind of credit/debit system.

[kadaria.livejournal.com]

Annnnnd to complicate matters there are credit companies won't allow businesses to do a "minimum transaction" policy which is why some smaller, local venues won't go electronic. One thing I have seen a local gas station get away with is charging a few cents less per gallon on gas that is paid for in cash. I don't know how kosher that loop-hole is.
But this is also why you get businesses that won't use certain credit cards like American Express; they charge a higher rate than visa/mc.

/end learning

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I used to ask the commissioner to pay the fees. But it's cause I didn't know much about it yet, and others did it too. I stopped as soon as I heard I'm not supposed to though.

[keeote.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't use Western Union's Wire Transfer service even if my life depended on it. The Post Office System within Australia is Government-owned and we have our own internal Money Order system for use only within the country's States and Territories. Post Offices here offer a wide range of international payment methods - the Western Union Money Order is just one of them. I really only listed that as an example because it was the first thing that came to mind when I pay somebody within the US when I don't use Paypal. For ease of mind I would also probably suggest US buyers use Checks, Money Orders, whatever the United States Postal Service offers.

The only real reason so many people use PayPal is because it is instant and convenient. I'm not sure what the United States offers in terms of Direct Bank Deposit so I can't really comment there.

Western Union Money Orders being an option to give money to people of the US has absolutely nothing to do with Western Union having a strangle-hold on Australia's monetary industry. That'd be absolutely ridiculous. Banking within Australia is Government legislated and we have own internal system which is different to the United States - that is why you cannot bank a US-Made Cheque in Australia and vice versa.

Western Union has been abused so heavily by ill-intended people so I can understand your nervousness and speed in calling it scamming. That doesn't mean that all the services they offer should immediately be discreditted as scams.

[phantomapfel.livejournal.com]

This is a perfect comment, as already stated.

As an artist who actually has read the TOS I know that it is my responsibility to pay the fees, and there for do NOT change my prices to include the fee amount because I feel that is unfair to my commissioners. Now I would not say no to a commissioner paying the fee for me, but I don't expect it. It's more like a little personal treat when they do, like a b-day present, and I actually prefer that people don't regularly do it because of this aspect. n.n