BEWARE: PIRATE-CASHOO

[anastasia-gg.livejournal.com]

Artist in Question:

Pirate-Cashoo
zombiepirate

URL where they base their business out of:

http://pirate-cashoo.deviantart.com
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/pirate-cashoo
http://pirate-cashoo.tumblr.com  (They request commissions here, too)
http://www.hentai-foundry.com/user/zombiepirate (WARNING –NSFW  adult site)
http://pirate-cashoo.sofurry.com

Time Period:

ORIGINAL REQUEST/INQUIRY MADE via email: MAY 10 2012

PAYMENT MADE 50%: $75.00 May 11, 2012 (PAYPAL)

PAYMENT MADE REMAINING 50%: $75.00 May 26, 2012 (PAYPAL)
FIRST DRAFT: MAY 26 (It was approved by me)
2nd DRAFT: New sketch sent to me (She wasn’t happy with the original) September 15, 2012.
3rd DRAFT: Another new sketch OCTOBER 3, 2012
LINEART: OCTOBER 17, 2012
NEW ETA for FINISHED PRODUCT: 7 days (or so) from Oct 17, 2012.
INQUIRIES: about progress/status: Nov 8, 15, 18th (2012).... no replies
NEW REPLY From PC: Nov 19, (2012) (after post to AB, unrelated)
UPDATE: From PC: Nov. 22.:   Apologies for not keeping deadlines
UPDATE: From PC: Nov 22.: Colored draft *YAY!!!* Finally. I think this may almost be resolved.
UPDATE: NEW REPLY From PC: Dec 2.: She has given me the deadline of Dec 21st and offered a free sketch in compensation for the trouble.
UPDATE: PC posted a public apology on DA and FA admitting her poor practices: http://pirate-cashoo.deviantart.com/journal/An-open-letter-to-all-of-my-customers-341302281 'm not sure if this changes anything, though unless she changes the way things are going. I sent her an email with lots of advice and tips on how she could better her freelance strategies but it seems others are doing this, too. I got a reply that was similar to her journal - I don't believe she really wants any advice or help even though people are trying to help. Stubborness isn't going to fix this problem.
UPDATE: DEC 2: New Promised deadline of Dec 21 offered and aggreed to by Cashoo. I sent her a reminder on the 19th about this, too.
UPDATE: DEC 22: Just received my FINISHED PIECE! FINALLY! YAY! It is BEAUTIFUL and she put a lot of work into it. So I am happy I got it at least. I will mark this resolved.


Item(s) Ordered:

2-PERSON Full-body COLORED SKETCH WITH LINEART.
PRICE QUOTED/GIVEN: $150.00

(Basically, I asked for something similar to this: http://fav.me/d4tbnqj) 2 characters, no wings or anything crazy. JUST HUMANS with no detailed background.


Proof of Purchase: PAYPAL:



Explanation of Situation:

Note: I am not accusing PC of being a scam-artist, but some serious business standards need to be reinstated and adhered to by this artist as clients like myself are getting very upset about her current practices. This needs to be addressed.
I did my research before even making my purchase with her and thought it was a safe bet. The issue here is communication/miscommunication/missed deadline/turnarounds and ridiculously slow response times, etc.
Many times over I had almost suspected she had taken my money and run, but then weeks later, I'd get a response apologizing for another ridiculously long wait of weeks or even months between letters.
I'm still waiting on my finished piece long past the original deadline of June 15th, 2012 though.

Here's how this has gone:

I had been watching Pirate-Cashoo on Deviant art for some time when I noticed she FINALLY opened up her commissions. HERE IS THE DA JOURNAL I RESPONDED TO: http://fav.me/d4zcncw

She states here: “These will be done within the month/by June 15th. Or if you have a particular deadline, let me know! Depending on the complexity, one commission can take up to 3 days total to finish. I'm really trying to push myself as an artist with these.”

I got a reply back that day (May 11th) with the estimate ($150) and where to send the paypal money. She said I could pay half now and the other half after I got the sketch, which is what I did.

The sketch came May 26th and following it, I paid her the rest (SAME DAY): $75.00.

I am listing below how things went after that.  I have documented them here though often her replies were so huge that I truncated some of them in the screenshots.

She has also been taking MORE commissions every few weeks/months since I ordered mine.

First ETA: MAY 11

“You'll receive a preliminary sketch within the next 7 days or so to look over before I hop into it.”

SKETCH RECEIVED: MAY 26. (2 weeks)

No reply after I approved the sketch.

NEXT MESSAGE SENT: Jun 12

No reply.

I wrote again JUL 25:

PROOF:

“I am writing you because it's been over 2 months since I've heard anything from you and I wanted to know if you could just give me an update on my commission. I don't mean to bother you, but I sent you the payment in FULL already 2 months ago back when you showed me the sketch, and I haven't heard a thing since. (If you need the paypal Invoice #'s just ask)

I am not upset about the time frame, I just feel that as a paying client, I should at least be kept in the loop about what I paid for.”

REPLY: JULY 25 “Ohh my goodness, I'm so sorry! I was in the middle of the lineart, but I was thinking about partially redoing the sketch, because it's got some serious anatomical issues, and I've improved my anatomy since then.” and a big story about all sorts of “troubles....” she’s having.

SECOND ETA:  “I should be getting to yours within the next week or so. I hope you understand.” (AS OF JULY 25)

NEW INQUIRY: SEPT 3:

PROOF:

“I was wondering, Have you been able to make any additional progress on my piece yet? Last time I heard from you was July 25th - so, it's been over a month and I've not heard anything still.... You had mentioned getting to it in a week or so, but I've not gotten any updates since then.”

REPLY FROM CASHOO:

SEPT 8

Apologies, etc etc.... and   “I'll be spending the next 2-3 days finishing up all sketches that haven't been done yet, which will include yours. I've redone yours a couple times and tossed them, but I think I've decided on what I'd really like this time!”

“...But I'll be finishing your commission within the next two weeks FOR SURE”

SEPT 13: FROM CASHOO

“Well, I just spent the last ten minutes bawling my eyes out.

I just...I just shut my computer down for the night, and apparently I didn't save. I...I don't know why my program didn't ask to save before I closed it. I seriously cannot believe it. It was so good, too... great pose and composition and everything. I.... seriously, seriously can't believe it. Oh my goodness...”

Accidents happen, I get that, too.

SEPT 15

I get a new sketch. NOTE: only a sketch.

No more replies after I approved the sketch.

NEW INQUIRY: OCT 2

Proof:



"Hello again

Umm, didn't want to bother you, but any progress on my piece? Were you able to adjust the sketch? I know you mentioned the piece would be done within 2 weeks "for sure" but this was over 2 weeks ago... I didn't want to have to bug you, but I keep seeing new sketches on your tumblr... so... I'm sort of wondering where the heck mine went.”

REPLY from CASHOO:OCT 3

I GET MY NEW SKETCH. *yay*. I APPROVE.

OCT 17:
I GET THE FINAL LINEART AND A REPLY.

PROOF:




REPLY FROM CASHOO:

“I have one commission in which its deadline is the 20th, and it's got a full background and everything, so I unfortunately have to work on that today. BUT, I'll definitely finish yours within the next 7 days or so...the hardest/longest parts are over, and the coloring is simply smooth sailing from here~”

No reply.

INQUIRY 1: NOVEMBER 8

“ I know you're busy but it's been a few weeks since you wrote me and you'd mentioned a while back... 7 days... but it's been 3 weeks now again.

Any progress by chance? I noticed you opened more commissions for xmas, but please be sure to get mine done before you do those since I've been waiting since April/May and it doesn't seem fair that I would have to wait until after xmas.”

No reply.

INQUIRY 2: NOVEMBER 15th

“Hey there, I haven't gotten a reply, so I'm writing again... apparently my messages are getting lost in your mounds of email

I know you're busy but it's been a few weeks since you wrote me and you'd mentioned a while back... 7 days (or so)... OK, I get it - 1 week, 2 week, 3 weeks.... but it's been 4 weeks again and not so much as a reply or an (I'll be late again note) or ANYTHING....&rdquo

etc.

INQUIRY 3: NOVEMBER: 19th

PARTIAL LETTER:

“If you can't finish it for whatever reason or aren't inspired, or just don't want to - than by all means please tell me that or give me a partial refund or something. Otherwise, I just really want some honesty, that's all.

I am a paying "customer" nonetheless and I have the right to know where my product is regardless of the circumstances and I seriously don't think that it is NOT reasonable for any client to INQUIRE about their product they purchased 7+ months after payment, and 4 WEEKS after an estimated delivery time.

I saw on your FA even that you said  in ref to that other person waiting months :  "And, like some other freelance artists out there, a long wait time (about 4+ months, I consider) is guaranteed more effort and detail put into the final product. And if it's been an abnormally long wait time (7-8 months and beyond), there's a 50% discount on whatever next commission the customer gets, even free if the customer is thoroughly displeased."

I'm sorry to be so concerned but we're going on 8 months almost here... You said it yourself: abnormally long wait time.

And then, you gave me another eta over a month ago and no reply since. I mean, I think you can understand why I am still very concerned here... I can still wait if you just asked me to, but I don't appreciate being given deadlines that aren't kept or that I am not even told about changing, etc.”


NEW REPLY AS OF NOV 19th:
This was AFTER my post to AB. Unsure if it was provoked by this or not...

(note: I truncated this a little because there were a bunch more personal family "issues" in there). I didn't think needed to be posted here. Also, she states that she doesn't know why so many people are getting upset with her about turnaround times. It's not just the turnaround times - it's also the money and the fact that we get deadlines that aren't kept, no replies, etc etc.



NEW REPLY: NOV 22.
It's very long, so I will summarize. I just got a new and lengthy letter from PC and although it seems to be thoughtful and kind, I am still empty-handed here. I am a little relieved that she has finally apologized for being terrible at keeping deadlines and "estimates" for turnaround times, but the message contained no further details or wips about my commission either, nor did it mention anything else about when I might get it. I appreciate some of her honesty, here. She is very upset about the whole AB drama, but I have tried to assure her that, despite her suspicions , we are not trying to  "ruin her business". (this is what she has told me she is suspecting of AB). 

She's trying to sound nice about this whole thing and so am I, but niceness doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere and I still don't have any additional wips.

IMPORTANT UPDATE: NOV 23.

I sent PC a letter with some advice and bullet points on how I think she could improve her commission process (because it’s not nice to just say someone’s doing something wrong and not tell them how to fix it).

I have finally gotten a colored draft and an honest explaination of how she works and how she runs business - basically deadlines are only kept if the client demands a deadline and all other pieces are worked on when she gets to them. Understood, but I thought I had been given several deadline/etas, but I guess not. So I am starting to believe that alot of these issues are from miscommunication and not keeping estimated turnarounds, etc.

I am finally relieved to know that she's still working on my piece and that I haven't been forgotten. She also told me a lot of things about her work ethics and schedules that opened my eyes to why these are all taking forever (much of it is still not good business practice, but at least I have an explaination now). Much of this is also just miscommunication. I feel a LOT BETTER now knowing all of this, and I wish she’d tell all of her clients the same thing....

Partial letter: “A lot of the problems you've addressed that I've run into are due to sudden changes within this year from my previous years in this line of work. For example, in all of my years of doing this business, I've never had problems or concerns with 4-6+ months of waiting with little contact and no WIPs. Only earlier this year did I start regularly sending WIPs to clients, because I thought it would be a fun idea to do so. Before then, though, the client would pay for the commission, wait a few months, and then receive a message with the completed commission. And it worked out wonderfully, without fail...until these last few months. And it's weird, I'm not sure what exactly has made the change, but ohhh well~

But...obviously, if I want to continue with this commission business, I have to adapt to my environment in order to be successful with it.
Also, I always try to make sure to mention either publicly or to each inquiring customer that they don't have to pay all upfront (most I have are half upfront, and half after completion), and that they can choose a reasonable deadline if they so desire. Those who give me definitive deadlines get their commissions done on time. Otherwise, I assume they don't mind, and I try to mention that beforehand. I have forgotten on occasion, but for the most part I mention deadlines for sure.

Oh! And setbacks can indeed set me back 4-6 months, as I illustrated in my last note to you...I hope that made sense! A commission of your type typically takes about 7 days to complete alone. With a queue of only 15 commissions of the same type already ahead of it in line is about a 4 month wait minimum until the commission is even started. I had about 20, and some of them had three characters and some had detailed backgrounds, which adds a few days to those commissions (typically). The thing that's really killed me is that I've been forced to take more commissions, because my consistent slew of bills can't be met entirely with my commissions, which take too long to complete to keep up with the bills. It's this self-defeating death cycle, and I've dug myself into this hole as a result...

Sadly though, I wasn't aware of how inaccurate my estimated turnaround time was when I took your commission until I started improving my skill and putting more detail into my overall work...and shot myself in the foot in the long run.”

Comments

[anastasia-gg.livejournal.com]

I have been trying to reach out to all of the others I see asking about their pieces as well - just trying to get some grounds here to see how many of these might be ongoing as well. It seems many. I wish more people would post here, too - to raise awareness, but I think people are worried or afraid to stand up. I was pushed by so many people to do this, that I felt the support really helped my case as well. It's NOT JUST ME here in this fight.

And yes, I don't see how she will be getting 4+ FULL high res pics done BEFORE xmas when she's clearly struggling to finish mine. I tried to be lenient - she's a very very good artist. But even the best - most talented people in the world have to face up if they are just plain unreliable and untrustworthy... No real job would stand for this. I have even written her a list of alternate sites she could work for HIGHPAYING jobs, too - places that look for GOOD QUALITY FREELANCERS - trying to help her with her financial issues... but still, she hasn't pulled through on this one picture for me, even. I can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped and just keeps going on their merry ways no matter what.

[creepymaggie.livejournal.com]

She's a very good artist, but for the amount of money you and others have paid, I'm sure you could have found an artist just as good who wouldn't have caused you so much distress and shown such a complete lack of respect for you and your money. I really hope she learns from this and you get your art or a refund *hug*. I also agree with what cyia said. Sometimes I just want to shake these people signing up for slots, but I guess up until now, no one has really made a thorough AB about her that shows people what's happening to so many of her customers.

[tartii.livejournal.com]

This is all....rather frightening. Its scary to see an artist you commissioned show up here on AB. I myself commissioned her but got my art with no trouble. But the more I read this, the more she sounds strikingly similiar to Vani(who I am STILL waiting on art for over two years.) The long list of excuses and life stories...the taking on more commissions...the promise of deadlines but nothing showing up....It really is frustrating.
I seriously hope she comes through. I dunno, can you sue people for things like that if you have proof of a deadline?

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I have to admit - If she honestly thinks this behavior is acceptable, then there's no way she's going to keep up with these "video game firms". Her ethic now is going to severely reflect how she will work in any industry outside of basic freelancing.

I'm disappointed and skeptical, reading the reply.

[germanchoclates.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, but that reply she sent to you is absolutely disgusting. It almost seems like she is trying to make you feel guilty for wanting your art in a timely and reasonable manner.

Of course she should stop the commission business. She's clearly quite horrible at keeping up with it. Her going to a video game firm is incredibly scary and I wouldn't be shocked if she didn't last long because you HAVE to keep in communication to do that kind of work.

I feel as if she's making mass excuses to make it OK, too. No. Just no on so many different levels.

Best of luck, but at this point I'd take what money and art I could and run for the hills (even with her no refund policy, which is really convenient for her considering.)

[germanchoclates.livejournal.com]

I'd also like to note that she's full of gobbilty gook because in an earlier note she said she had a lot of people inquiring about their commissions she hadn't finished. Either she has no complaints or she does.

[anastasia-gg.livejournal.com]

Yes, I was feeling better with all the support from AB and other sites I got today when I posted, and then I got her reply and sort of started almost feeling bad again... and I don't even know why. It's the way she writes her reply as if the world is against her. We're NOT!

More excuses and the same stuff. I shouldn't feel bad for worrying about my money and for being given broken promises.

At least I DID get a reply FINALLY - let's see how long it takes to actually get the PIECE though now.

[tifaria.livejournal.com]

ehhh, I'm side-eyeing that reply pretty hard. Like, okay, maybe you're right and no one complained before, but people are complaining/being more vocal NOW, and that's the important part, not what happened in the past.

Also this: "I have too much on the line to try to pull things like that. It's currently my only form of income, and if I got paid more than simple minimum wage for the endless hours and effort I put into every illustration, I wouldn't have so many people waiting for so long. I could work at a fast food chain and make more than I do with these commissions, but I do commissions because art is my passion, and I LOVE it."

Yeah... no. I mean, you set your prices, so if you don't feel like you're being paid what you deserve, raise your prices? Or, you know, go work at a fast food chain if that's really how you feel about your commissions. Working a non-art job doesn't mean you can't also make art.

Geez, I just. I can't with that reply. How disappointing.

[tyrano-tiggs.livejournal.com]

This. I did a bit of games art when I was studying games design as a side project and had to give it up after a month due to the strict deadlines that I was far too inexperienced/disorganized to keep. This was for a small local company making iOS games using very basic art (aimed at kids) so I can't imagine how she's managing given she can't keep deadlines for customers paying hundreds of dollars.

[tyrano-tiggs.livejournal.com]

, but people are complaining/being more vocal NOW, and that's the important part, not what happened in the past.

This. You could have done 100 commissions in the past 2 years but if your 4 most recent commissioners start complaining then clearly there's a problem with how you're currently working. Everyone's standards can slip for many reasons; stress, losing passion for it, even over confidence ("oh I'm popular anyway so I can get away with it"). Great that you've got 96 happy customers but those 4 unhappy customers can easily ruin your reputation if they aren't satisfied.

[svarta perlan (from livejournal.com)]

reading that reply you got... ugh. DO NOT allow her to make you feel bad, dear! SHE owes you art OR money. SHE is the one that should feel bad. I'm still waiting to hear back from her again myself, the last message I got from her was the one I showed you in a pm, this...

"Wait…what? I’m sorry, I haven’t been on my e-mail or the computer very much these past couple weeks, and since my family’s visit I’ve had mountains of messages to get back to and I’m slowly getting through them…you are not being ignored or anything, just relax… I’ve already acknowledged the art that I owe you, I’m not sure what more I can do other than finish them…"

to which I replied that I was concerned about how much work she was taking on and that I would like an estimate on when to expect to see my commissions - no response yet.

I have commissioned a LOT of artist, just like you have, and NEVER had problems like this... so I really feel for you.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that line made me see red. If you're going below minimum wage per image, then the issue is with you and you need to raise your prices. =\ Or figure out how to work faster/ what slows you down.

[starinthegutter.livejournal.com]

She's pulling the pity card, and I don't buy it.

I can understand needing money for things, but backlogging herself to get the $ she needs, which I assume she spends almost on the spot for bills or whatever since she just keeps taking on more commissions- that's just stupid. I mean really.

I honestly thought better of her. It's really too bad.

[starinthegutter.livejournal.com]

"Or, you know, go work at a fast food chain if that's really how you feel about your commissions. Working a non-art job doesn't mean you can't also make art."

Thiiiiiiiiiiiis. SO much this. I honestly don't understand why more artists don't get jobs on the side so they don't overwhelm themselves with commission work. It makes life so much easier when you have bills to pay.

[sirmeo.livejournal.com]

I've also experienced bad communication from her. Some time ago I bought a bust of my character from her, when she was still offering them for like $20 each. The thing is she never sent it to me, and the only reason I found out she'd actually completed the piece was because I follow her on tumblr and the piece popped up on my dash. My tumblr name is very different from my e-mail address though and I don't think she knew I was following her because I originally contacted her from deviantArt. So... yeah, it's a minor thing but I think failure to send the finished artwork tells a bit about bad communication skills.

I also contacted her later for another piece but she never replied me back, and then the "sorry for delays" journals and tumblr posts began happening and now I actually consider myself lucky.

:/

Best of lucks with this one for you.

[felonykat.livejournal.com]

I've seen her re-opening commission slots all the time, and in every journal there are people who paid her months back desperate for her to reply back to them, snd she never seems to. What I don't understand is the number of people buying into the commissions slots regardless, even though there are comments littered everywhere that she's extremely late on other peoples art.

^This so much. a_b here is a good resource when looking for an artist to commission, but it is always good to do a bit of research too. Seeing comments from others wondering where their art is when an artist posts they are open for commissions again should give an obvious clue that there is an already large back-log. It also shows if you want art from said artist them better expect to wait awhile despite claims of quick turn around.

[creepymaggie.livejournal.com]

After reading your update and the artist's response, it really seems like she isn't taking any responsibility for what she's doing. She's lecturing the people who are concerned about their commissions in an attempt to make them feel bad for speaking up about what's bothering them when they have every right to be concerned.
Is she suggesting that because she pushed commissions off and made people wait for months and months when she lived at her parents that it was ok, and the right way to conduct business? If she had our money up front, that wasn't correct then, and it isn't correct now.
I bet her reply was the result of this post. It's too much of a coincidence.
She doesn't seem care that people are really worried and upset here. She's just playing the victim, but it's her own doing. Art may be her passion, but if she can't pay the bills with it yet, she has to accept that. The only reason it's paying the bills now is because she keeps taking money from tons of customers in bulk unable to supply the product in a timely fashion.

[svarta perlan (from livejournal.com)]

I've submitted my own AB post, waiting for approval. Right after I sent it in, I checked my email... and there was a wall of text from her. To sum it up, I feel sick, and I'll be adding the email to my own AB post once it's been approved.
Her way of conducting business is the worst I've ever seen in the community... if there's anything worse out there, I'm glad to have never seen it.

[tifaria.livejournal.com]

I had a look at one of her recent commission posts on DA, and she broke it down to about $10/hour. Which... is pretty far above minimum wage already in the US. I have so many problems with the idea that it's okay to make people wait longer/not communicate with buyers because you think you're not getting paid enough anyway.

[retr0h.livejournal.com]

Didn't one of her friends here say she was going to "keep us updated" on Vani's progress and "push her to finish her owed art", what happened to that? lol

Anyway, I agree with you. I hope these artists really realize that this is THEFT and they should finish what they owe.

[anastasia-gg.livejournal.com]

That's not even the case - she told me my SKETCH took like 8 HOURS... just the sketch. Not the coloring or anything.... soo... she's not even getting $10 at this rate. I think she needs to raise her Prices BADLY. I mean, 100 people in line for $50 pieces, will probably STILL leave like 50 people in line for 100$ pieces... really. I have told her many times that she should raise her prices... make it reasonable and fair for BOTH artist and commissioner. She feels compensated, satisfied and not used, and so do we.

[anastasia-gg.livejournal.com]

yuck.. she posts the piece before even giving it to YOU- the customer? ... ugh.... not really good either.

[anastasia-gg.livejournal.com]

I think it was, too - but I could be wrong. She told someone else that she doesn't even know what "AB" is... but she was reported last year, too so I doubt that.

[anastasia-gg.livejournal.com]

GO YOU!

[sirmeo.livejournal.com]

It wasn't just before - she never approached me to give it by herself, and had I not been following her tumblr I would've probably never seen it. Heck - if I had more active dashboard on tumblr I could've missed it regardless of following her. I decided not to push on this matter because I did get artwork (and was happy with the outcome).

(Mind you I'm not really the kind of person who minds if piece is posted before I've received it; I usually let people rather free reign with my characters and I like to be surprised, so it's not that she posted it - it's that she apparently assumed I would just "find it")