BEWARE - Zorax89

[prinnyex.livejournal.com]

WHO: Zorax89, frostybiggens

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/zorax89/ , http://frostybiggens.deviantart.com/

WHAT: Icon Commission

WHEN: December 18th and February 23rd

PROOF: 1st case in December, final note containing whole conversion. His replies are red boxed since Fa's quote system doesn't work.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/zorax89ab.png

Sudden notes that I received February 23rd.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/zorax89abDA1.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/zorax89abDA2.png

Proof they are indeed the same person since his fa and da do not link to each other, not does his da have any of his art.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/zorax89abDA3.png


EXPLAIN: 1st I’ll say, in the da notes, the quote he’s taking from me is from here - http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3993478/, a rant journal i posted months after the ordeal with him edit: Journal was deleted but screencap is here -https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/rantjournal.png , also the date was a month before he commissioned me, i saw the date wrong , and that had nothing to do with him. I had seen my friends being bothered about postings journals, been bothered on DA with a crit on a work I didn't ask for crits on (i was already in a bad mood and it was just plain rude) who I flagged as spam and don’t even remember their name, and various other drama things that had bothered me that day.

In my rules that are directly located in my commissions journal, I have it where I do not accept as refs or draw any mature art. That’s just how it is, and I’ve yet to have any issues with commissioners finding a clean ref or censoring them enough for me to use. I do not turn off the mature block so even if they try, I can't see it. I know other artists who also don’t do mature art and prefer nonmature refs. I make a very GOOD living just drawing as I’m comfortable. After the banter in the fa note, I ended up blocking him and leaving it at that. I didn’t post anything about it, I whined a bit to a friend, but what was about it. I moved on, whatever. Not every customer is the greatest.

Then on February 23rd, I saw I had received a note on my DA from someone i didn't recognize. they didn't say who they were, even after i said i didn’t know who they were, and you can see the conversion. I got very aggravated as you can tell at the sudden assault from some unknown person who apparently had a grudge against me. at this point, I remembered, I’ve only ever blocked ONE person on FA. that was zorax89 in order to end the conversion and prevent them from future messages. I checked their DA only to see no useful info what so ever, and none on his FA that linked back to the DA. then i decided to try my luck with the journals, and if there was nothing, I’d just leave it be as some random persons rant. unfortunately, I found the above journals posting of his birthday, both on the same day. they were indeed the same person, attacking me months afterward.

This is NOT a commissioner you want, and I’m glad I didn’t take his second commission. And I will not let it simply end with him attacking me and walking away. I've also recieved word that this isn't the 1st case of him harassing artists, and will update this post as screencaps and information come to me.


Current Mood: Annoyed

Comments

[kasuned.livejournal.com]

The beware against this commissioner is well-warranted.

However, there's something that really bugs me about your exchange.

You remained professional up until he told you "it's a furry porn site." Your response with capslock letters to emphasize points and the way you worded some things made you come off like you have an attitude. There are much better ways you could have worded your reasoning. You come off as aggressive from what I've read, and that's not a good thing when it comes to potential clients.

Now, I don't want to be that guy, but some of your responses are... really not called for. Once he started insulting you, you should have blocked him, reported him, and left it at that. Not fuel the fire by responding and sinking to his level. Yes, he was rude to you- but don't be rude back. Be the better person and keep a cool head at all times. It will save you some headache and potential backlash.

I don't think you're a bad artist. I'm not upset at you at all. I'm just offering my two cents and advice, and offending you isn't my intention.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

This is what I wanted to say too.
The client clearly did not read the rules, which are sensible rules, so he's in the wrong for that, but I don't think having an exchange like that was very professional. I would have blocked much sooner :T

[roocodendron.livejournal.com]

This is exactly what I was thinking as well.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Everything here, especially when it came to reading the response from his note on DA. That was just painful to read. The guy is obviously in the wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[prinnyex.livejournal.com]

you are completely right, and i will do my best to act more professional in the future when dealing with commissioners. Thank you.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

We're not allowed to sell on FA if we aren't willing to draw porn? Guess I better go somewhere else then...

[jijix.livejournal.com]

I have to say that whilst I appreciate your standpoint on not wanting to change your content filter to accommodate a customer's ref, I feel some of your comments were very unprofessional.

If ever you come under this situation again, instead of accusing a person of not reading your rules (even if that is blatantly true) you could simply explain things politely, and if the customer becomes belligerent refuse the commission. Block if necessary. You could even make a simple cut-and-paste form type response for this.

"I'm sorry, but the reference you have linked me is marked as mature/contains nudity. Because my workstation is not a private environment I prefer not to view such material. I would ask you to please censor your reference appropriately or link me an alternate reference that is G rated. I cannot proceed with the commission until this is done. I apologise for any inconvenience and sincerely thank you for your co-operation."

Commissions are a business, so talk like one. People will appreciate it. :3

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm not allowed to use FA then.

What a terrible attitude.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

The rant journal located here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3993478/
Really reveals a lot about you as a professional. While I can see what you're saying there and even agree with some, Such rant journals look extremely unprofessional and intimidating to potential clients. Something like this would definitely be suited to a personal account or something rather than the account you are doing business on.
If I were just checking your page looking for a commission, completely unbiased, and found that journal, I'd head for the hills.

[arcticious.livejournal.com]

Oh wow... That's certainly something. I must agree, it's intimidating.

[purpule.livejournal.com]

good jesus.

Not that people aren't allowed to rant or anything, hell I rant on occasion myself, but that is fairly off putting to read; especially when it comes with a lot of disclaimers that sound like you're not even allowed to disagree with what's being said. Yes, it's your journal, but it's also in a public forum, so you can't really make rules upon what people will or won't say.

Not debating that the beware is warranted, or that they're not a good artist or a lovely person, because I'm sure they are - It's just I agree, that I'd be backing away if that was the first thing I read on their page.

[temporalranger]

This. While I deplore the attitude of the commissioner, the attitude displayed by the OP in both their replies and particularly that rant journal - with special emphasis on the suicide shaming and the 'you can't disagree with me at all' segments - puts them on about the same level of 'DNW to deal with ever' for me.

Diplomacy both a) makes your point much more effectively and b) doesn't scare off potential customers ahead of time.

[purpule.livejournal.com]

I do think that they were being ridiculous with their "well, you should have to expect to see/draw porn on this site" because no actually, a person who draws clean art DOESN'T need to be subjected to dog wang just to draw an icon, and the idea that you should be okay with it is ludicrous.

However, I will say that you do come across as a bit abrasive in your journals/notes at times, which could escalate the rudeness of people who are already getting their back up.

You don't deserve people being rude to you by any means, but toning down the rage a bit does more for you than anything - because you'll retain the air of professionalism and they'll just look like a douche! It's all about conflict management, quenching the fire before it explodes - and the way you react to a conflict can sometimes mean the difference between someone being a dick and badmouthing you everywhere and someone just going "oh well, okay, thanks for your time". Of course, you can be the nicest person on the planet and people will STILL treat you with disrespect and claim that you were a bitch to them, but those people will be shown up for who they really are.

[tartii.livejournal.com]

Beware well warranted.
While your attitude was off putting, and should have been handled better, I can understand your irritation.
Judging by how quick you were to aggression, I am assuming you have had the 'if you can't handle porn get off fa' snark thrown at you often? Best thing to do is just block the person right off the bat, they really aren't worth your time.

Being an emotional person myself, I completely understand where you are coming from. But be careful, and remember that because you do business on that account, everything you do reflects upon you professionally. It sucks, but its the baggage that comes with being an online artist.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with your last comment. I'm very emotional too and it leads me to be extremely irrational when my temper flares, so I'm learning to simply walk away from the keyboard until I'm calm enough to write a proper response. If an email/PM is important enough, I will sometimes write something quick back like "I will give you a proper response shortly, I apologize for the inconvenience" and then wait until I've calmed to write out what I want to say.

[toscaterrier.livejournal.com]

While his nasty attitude (in the dA notes especially) makes this a valid beware, your aggressive tone in your replies to him and your journals is extremely off-putting. If you must rant and let off steam, do it on a personal account instead of one that you conduct business on. I do the same thing; god knows I'm plenty aggressive, but you need to keep it off of a commission account.

Frankly, by the rant journal posted above, I wouldn't work with either you or the commissioner. :| Your customers don't want to know how much you rage at other people.

[latiro.livejournal.com]

beware very well-warranted, but I'll have to agree with the others that your replies to the commissioner and the rant journal were pretty off-putting. If you feel like you need to rant, don't post it in an account that you conduct business on, there's a chance that some potential commissioners would stay away from you after reading some rant journals

(off-topic, but I still love that love-love icon you did for me a long time ago)

[ladysnakebite.livejournal.com]

Wow. As far as I can see, both the OP's and the commissioner's attitudes need some serious adjusting.

OP, if I had seen that journal as a potential client, I would have not just not commissioned you, I would have unwatched you immediately. Both it and the aggressive response you gave your prospective client on FA come off as exceptionally immature, and the victim-blaming and shaming in the journal are just unacceptable, IMO.

Next time you feel the need to reply to someone angrily or want to rant to get something off your chest, try typing it all out in Notepad, then deleting it and writing a level-headed draft instead. If you absolutely NEED to rant and post, that's what LiveJournal (and friends-locking) is for.

In the commission business people build their impression of you by the content of your account, and that includes journals. It's very important to be careful what you present publicly because that is what builds your reputation, and this stuff doesn't reflect well on you at all.

[mortymaxwell.livejournal.com]

The commissioner was out of line, but you come across as belligerent, immature and someone who responds in the heat of emotion. Your use of the f-bomb and the shaming in your rant journal turns me off, and I didn't like the language you used in your notes to the commissioner.

I would think about how you come across online, not just in that rant journal and in your replies to the commissioner, but well in general.

Like with your TOS. I looked at your commissions journal to see how you spelled out your policy to clients about mature art/refs, and the language in there was off-putting to me too.

"I DO NOT GIVE REFUNDS, UNLESS - I feel the art i produced isnt worth what the artist paid for or i get so sick of you i deside drawing for you just isnt worth the money."

That last part sounds so condescending, I'd choose not to do business with you just for that part.

[kasuned.livejournal.com]

Yikes, that last part... I agree with you, that's just. Wow.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

Yikes. Looking at the rants on both sides, I'd never do business with either the OP or the commissioner.

[starinthegutter.livejournal.com]

What everyone has said above. The beware is warranted, but your attitude towards the client wasn't professional either. Take this as a lesson learned and perhaps change the way you approach potential business in the future. It's not good to take the 'bait' that people throw at you. When they're being smart-asses, better to leave well enough alone, block them, whatever you need to do, just ignore them. Don't give them reason to target you. If they know what presses your buttons, they see you as easy prey if you publicize how much it irks you.

[ibagface.livejournal.com]

Beware well warranted. Reading your own replies though its obvious that you reply emotionally to what people say to you. Remember, its the internet and people can be insulting and rude. Dont take it as a personal attack. If someone is rude in a note like that, step back from the computer and calm down before replying. Dont reply when your angry, you will regret it (like im sure you are now). Get away from the computer, take a deep breath and do something else for half an hour. Come back and reply to it with a clear head and no emotional attachment. That way its direct and to the point and you wont end up having an insult war.

[sintocat.livejournal.com]

Wow, I actually think this is an equal beware on both sides. Both immature and I wouldn't work with either of them.

(frozen comment) Ugh, seriously?

[panfe.livejournal.com]

Guys, I might be a little biased here, but I want to go ahead and put my two cents in.

I understand that people find Prinny's rant journals a little scary, but most of the time, it's because she's been harassed by people for a while (On more than one site), and it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I understand where everyone's coming from though, saying that it's kind of unprofessional to say bad words and such in an aggressive, anger fueled rant, but.

No offense to any of you, but I've seen some folks commenting here posting rants themselves that are pretty 'wow really?' and in all honesty the comments are unwarranted. As a professional, aside from the once in a while rants that Prinny posts, she is NOTHING but professional. There was a comment here saying she spends money before she finishes the commissions? No, that is bull, I'm calling bull because I know for a fact she lets that money sit in her paypal until she finishes the commission, then she moves however much money to her bank account once the commissions are complete, incase the user wants a refund due to how long she's been waiting.

That rant is extremely old, and is only still there for evidence purposes. People are actually commenting on the journal NOW because of this artist beware attacking her and blocking her (I won't name names, but you know who you are) because she put a beware against a customer who goes around the fA ban-laws to banevade by harassing via another website all together about a rant that was posted over a month BEFORE He even contacted her in the first place.

I've told Prinny how I feel about the situation already in skype, saying her rants are sincerely intense and perhaps she should keep them to tumblr or something, but saying this is a warning against the artist who is nothing but a kind person unless you attack her constantly? We've all made that mistake before, while this person being warned against apparently has done it to several people in the past over different instances.

I'm not trying to white-knight, heaven forbid, but I'm just saying that folks shouldn't create a warning against her when, if you look through her journals and TOS, she has changed in the FOUR MONTHS since then.

When you post a rant on fA, you don't want people to give an opinion about it, it's just a rant, and most likely, because it's public people will give their opinions in the end, but folks should realize that fueling the fire and playing devil's advocate is kind of a dick move on their part as well, just like 'Oh, that dog's mad, let's poke it a couple of times for no reason.'

(frozen comment) Re: Ugh, seriously?

[arcticious.livejournal.com]

I don't believe that people here are jumping on a all-harass-the-artist bandwagon. The idea is that she presented a beware, was abrasive in her responses for whatever reason (being angry, hurt, whatever reason), and linked in the rant journal as evidence. People have every right to form an opinion based on the evidence surrounding both parties. I was honestly very disgusted by that journal, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one.
'Getting mad' is normal, yes, but spouting spiteful words and even having a go at a recent suicide (if the 'slut' she is shaming is who I think she is) is not only off putting, but it's highly unprofessional.
Basically, you're talking as someone who knows of her previous work ethic, of her professionalism through however you've seen it. However not everyone is from that perspective. Before reading this beware, I had no idea who this artist was. With that in mind, I read the notes and the journal, and was incredibly off put. I'm not sure about anyone else, but that journal pretty much triggered a danger response from me and I stopped reading it.
She has everyone right to post that, sure, but she will be judged accordingly, and for new potential customers who do not want to deal with the possibility of an angry outburst like that, they will black list her. It doesn't matter if she's a good artist, or a great person, how she has presented herself in her online professional space is frightening.
And in a way, no, it's not fair. But if she wanted to maintain true professionalism, she could find so many other places to vent/ways to vent. However a big 'eff you' journal is not the best way, and is part of the reason she is being blacklisted by some now.
And no one is saying that the beware is invalid; everyone is in agreeance that the customer was awful. However when you post a review, you put yourself in the spotlight and people will judge you as a professional.

[prinnyex.livejournal.com]

at the advice of the commenters here and of people close to me, ive deleted the rant journals and will proceed to make a personal acc so that that one will be strictly business so as to make things more professional. thank you for everyones input and sorry of outside parties were offended in any way owo

[kasuned.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad that you took this advice so well and acted professionally. I'm sure with time people will be able to see past your mistakes and note that you handled this well!

[huntydamus belmont (from livejournal.com)]

Good call on redeeming yourself, taking the advice and handling the situation in a professional manner, OP.