artists_beware | BEWARE

Entry tags:

BEWARE - Zorax89

WHO: Zorax89, frostybiggens

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/zorax89/ , http://frostybiggens.deviantart.com/

WHAT: Icon Commission

WHEN: December 18th and February 23rd

PROOF: 1st case in December, final note containing whole conversion. His replies are red boxed since Fa's quote system doesn't work.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/zorax89ab.png

Sudden notes that I received February 23rd.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/zorax89abDA1.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/zorax89abDA2.png

Proof they are indeed the same person since his fa and da do not link to each other, not does his da have any of his art.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/zorax89abDA3.png

EXPLAIN: 1st I’ll say, in the da notes, the quote he’s taking from me is from here - ~~http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3993478/, a rant journal i posted months after the ordeal with him~~ edit: Journal was deleted but screencap is here -https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25869904/AB/rantjournal.png , also the date was a month before he commissioned me, i saw the date wrong , and that had nothing to do with him. I had seen my friends being bothered about postings journals, been bothered on DA with a crit on a work I didn't ask for crits on (i was already in a bad mood and it was just plain rude) who I flagged as spam and don’t even remember their name, and various other drama things that had bothered me that day.

In my rules that are directly located in my commissions journal, I have it where I do not accept as refs or draw any mature art. That’s just how it is, and I’ve yet to have any issues with commissioners finding a clean ref or censoring them enough for me to use. I do not turn off the mature block so even if they try, I can't see it. I know other artists who also don’t do mature art and prefer nonmature refs. I make a very GOOD living just drawing as I’m comfortable. After the banter in the fa note, I ended up blocking him and leaving it at that. I didn’t post anything about it, I whined a bit to a friend, but what was about it. I moved on, whatever. Not every customer is the greatest.

Then on February 23rd, I saw I had received a note on my DA from someone i didn't recognize. they didn't say who they were, even after i said i didn’t know who they were, and you can see the conversion. I got very aggravated as you can tell at the sudden assault from some unknown person who apparently had a grudge against me. at this point, I remembered, I’ve only ever blocked ONE person on FA. that was zorax89 in order to end the conversion and prevent them from future messages. I checked their DA only to see no useful info what so ever, and none on his FA that linked back to the DA. then i decided to try my luck with the journals, and if there was nothing, I’d just leave it be as some random persons rant. unfortunately, I found the above journals posting of his birthday, both on the same day. they were indeed the same person, attacking me months afterward.

This is NOT a commissioner you want, and I’m glad I didn’t take his second commission. And I will not let it simply end with him attacking me and walking away. I've also recieved word that this isn't the 1st case of him harassing artists, and will update this post as screencaps and information come to me.

Current Mood: Annoyed

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Guys, I might be a little biased here, but I want to go ahead and put my two cents in.

I understand that people find Prinny's rant journals a little scary, but most of the time, it's because she's been harassed by people for a while (On more than one site), and it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I understand where everyone's coming from though, saying that it's kind of unprofessional to say bad words and such in an aggressive, anger fueled rant, but.

No offense to any of you, but I've seen some folks commenting here posting rants themselves that are pretty 'wow really?' and in all honesty the comments are unwarranted. As a professional, aside from the once in a while rants that Prinny posts, she is NOTHING but professional. There was a comment here saying she spends money before she finishes the commissions? No, that is bull, I'm calling bull because I know for a fact she lets that money sit in her paypal until she finishes the commission, then she moves however much money to her bank account once the commissions are complete, incase the user wants a refund due to how long she's been waiting.

That rant is extremely old, and is only still there for evidence purposes. People are actually commenting on the journal NOW because of this artist beware attacking her and blocking her (I won't name names, but you know who you are) because she put a beware against a customer who goes around the fA ban-laws to banevade by harassing via another website all together about a rant that was posted over a month BEFORE He even contacted her in the first place.

I've told Prinny how I feel about the situation already in skype, saying her rants are sincerely intense and perhaps she should keep them to tumblr or something, but saying this is a warning against the artist who is nothing but a kind person unless you attack her constantly? We've all made that mistake before, while this person being warned against apparently has done it to several people in the past over different instances.

I'm not trying to white-knight, heaven forbid, but I'm just saying that folks shouldn't create a warning against her when, if you look through her journals and TOS, she has changed in the FOUR MONTHS since then.

When you post a rant on fA, you don't want people to give an opinion about it, it's just a rant, and most likely, because it's public people will give their opinions in the end, but folks should realize that fueling the fire and playing devil's advocate is kind of a dick move on their part as well, just like 'Oh, that dog's mad, let's poke it a couple of times for no reason.'

I don't believe that people here are jumping on a all-harass-the-artist bandwagon. The idea is that she presented a beware, was abrasive in her responses for whatever reason (being angry, hurt, whatever reason), and linked in the rant journal as evidence. People have every right to form an opinion based on the evidence surrounding both parties. I was honestly very disgusted by that journal, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one.
'Getting mad' is normal, yes, but spouting spiteful words and even having a go at a recent suicide (if the 'slut' she is shaming is who I think she is) is not only off putting, but it's highly unprofessional.
Basically, you're talking as someone who knows of her previous work ethic, of her professionalism through however you've seen it. However not everyone is from that perspective. Before reading this beware, I had no idea who this artist was. With that in mind, I read the notes and the journal, and was incredibly off put. I'm not sure about anyone else, but that journal pretty much triggered a danger response from me and I stopped reading it.
She has everyone right to post that, sure, but she will be judged accordingly, and for new potential customers who do not want to deal with the possibility of an angry outburst like that, they will black list her. It doesn't matter if she's a good artist, or a great person, how she has presented herself in her online professional space is frightening.
And in a way, no, it's not fair. But if she wanted to maintain true professionalism, she could find so many other places to vent/ways to vent. However a big 'eff you' journal is not the best way, and is part of the reason she is being blacklisted by some now.
And no one is saying that the beware is invalid; everyone is in agreeance that the customer was awful. However when you post a review, you put yourself in the spotlight and people will judge you as a professional.

you are right, and if my rants push away some of my commissioners, its my own fault and none elses. ive edit'd that journal abit to add context to the portion of it, but its peoples own right to be upset or not.

i wont tell anyone to be or not to be urked by it, i'll simply listen to everyones comments and do what i think is the best way to handle it, change it, or what not.

Edited 2013-03-11 18:57 (UTC)

I'm not saying that the beware itself is invalid, but the fact that everyone is 'double sided beware' over a four month old journal that has long since been made obsolete is somewhat unfair. Instead of doing a little research, it's like everyone's picking at every single tiny thing, and looking for excuses to be extremely upset at her / attack her.

I understand what everyone's said though, at the same time. It was very unprofessional, but not enough for everyone to say "Oh gosh this beware is well warranted both ways."

That's great that you know her and think she's sweet. Customers probably aren't going to want to take the time to befriend the artist they're working with. Those of us here, as well as potential commissioners, can only judge off of what she posts.

Nobody here is trolling or attacking her. When someone posts a beware here, the community can form opinions of both the beware-er and bewaree based on the evidence provided. Going to a journal link given as evidence and being met with gendered slurs and vitriol is quite jarring, especially with no warning given, and the fact that she rants that aggressively on a commission account can be very off-putting to people.

I understand no one is trolling her here so much as that's where the journals came from / stemmed from. People who haven't befriended her, but commissioned her simply as a professional have still seen her as such.

She's taken everything into account, but people are also taking a lot of things out of context and saying that an A_B should have been placed against her, simply because she posted a rant journal. I understand that people are going to judge others regardless of what anyone says to anyone, but from a lot of the comments made here about her 'slut shaming' and 'spending money before work is completed' have absolutely no right and there is NO CONTEXT In where that was stated ANYWHERE in any of her journals, and are just personal, passive aggressive comments toward her simply because of her abrasive rant.

I agree she used a lot of heavy, strong language, and that it shouldn't be on a commission account, but saying that the beware is well warranted against BOTH parties is what I say is unfair, considering that a single journal post does not make for a beware, as does fraudulent actions and harassment.

First off, the artist's responses here have been fantastic and are helping to change a lot of people's opinions. She's clearly taking the advice here to heart, and that's a good thing.

In terms of your 'no context' line? I said above that the rant made me physically sick. Without the context added, it came off as suicide and slut shaming.

People have a right to feel leery about commissioning her based on a journal post. The same goes for anyone. Otherwise, this community probably wouldn't exist, seeing as its entire purpose is to warn people in a journal format.

Honestly, the artist was doing a great job of fixing their attitude and professionalism in this post before you tried to whiteknight them.

There was a comment here saying she spends money before she finishes the commissions?

Oh, hi.

Actually, I said "I'm assuming that's why that's there" in which she corrected me. Either way, denying a refund to a client is illegal.

And it shouldn't be a random passerby's job to become friends with someone or get to know how "really sweet they are". Most people are going to make their first impression on what they see. If they see a rant journal full of victim blaming (don't EVEN try to justify that one to me, it's still victim blaming), cursing, and all sorts of foul language, it doesn't bode well.

With that said, the OP was doing well speaking for herself without you coming in charging.

I didn't come in charging or else I would be extremely offensive such as other instances have been.

I was defending a friend as at first, she didn't understand how A_B worked.
Creating rude assumptions and such was unnecessary and uncalled for as such, and you're well aware from your obviously passive aggressive comment back toward me.

The journal was four months old, which is obviously on the page that it was such and she, as a person has changed.
She's not denied ANYONE a refund, so much as now she has clarified on her TOS what she does in case a refund is necessary, it was vague and with my help has been changed to suit a more professional standard.

I understand what a first impression is, and that's fine and dandy, but the double sided beware is not well warranted without more research being done. A single journal has never been enough to make here on A_B without several instances, so that's all I have to 'charge' with at that.

"No refunds" rule is a common thing amongst artists who can't give refunds because they've already spent the money. Given the impression she gave me from her behavior and the long wait list, it wasn't necessarily a huge leap. However, I was wrong in this instance and will happily admit it and apologize to her.

The last bit is your opinion. Given her notes and the journal, I don't see anything wrong with people being afraid to work with her. Of course, her responses here have been fabulous and she's been ace with everyone. She gets a ton of kudos for not giving into her emotions.

Also, you responded to me before I could edit my comment: If anyone is bugging her on her FA from here please let the mods know. There is a look but don't touch rule and no one has any reason bothering her or the guy this beware is about.

I'm sorry that that impression was given, and that I am a little defensive about that because of the fact she was, in fact, attacked earlier today by a user over her journal with a comment of "Lern sum grammur u *explicit* idiot" then blocked her. She hid it, and that was such.

Now that she's responding for herself, I don't defend much anymore except for respond to comments made to me, so, I'm pretty much keeping myself to myself without trying to come across as a white knight so much as a character witness (I suppose that would best suit this situation, as I have several other users who have only worked with her in a business sense that would also agree).

The rant is just as it said, a rant, and if people are scared of rants, well, I guess I kind of understand if there are trigger words, but there is always a warning about it in the journal before you read that if you are sensitive to such, don't read it. She's fixed everything now, though, so I am hoping that will change the opinion everyone has about her from that one vent four months ago.

Actually, I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason rant journals to such degree are off-putting in general is because you don't know if such ire can be triggered to you during the transaction. If someone is capable of "snapping" and going on a fire fueled rage over critique, what's to say that I as a client won't get the same response if I ask for a change? It's not necessarily the content within, but the potential to be on the receiving end of that.

Lots of folks rant. Heck, I rant! It's just better left to a non-working space to give the best impression of yourself. If a person is amazing 99% of the time then it's best to keep that 1% away from where you make your money.

uwu i am taking that into account and have proceeded to make a personal account for such things in an effort to keep such away from my commissions one, and i will keep that in mind.

That's fabulous. C: In sincerely wish you the best, and am happy to see you're taking this to heart.

It wasn't just over the critique is the sad thing. She has a habit of 'Condensing' all of her rage. Hence her fursona being the explosive waterfoul that it is.

However, she has sincerely changed since then, and I hate that everyone's assuming she still acts that way from a single act.

AS I've stated, though, I understand the trigger word warning, and I've been known to warn people myself about trigger warnings about situations when I rant myself. That's why I've made a new account, and so did she to keep things separate.

She literally changed everything to make sure it was up to snuff TODAY, too, so, I'm hoping people will, in fact, change their opinion and not continue saying the rant was enough to get a double beware on.

And a critique and a change in a commission are different animals - mainly because the critiques in question were "Oh god did you just barf that up?" or other 'not critique so much as being a troll' critiques that ALL of us hate.

someone did appear from here but because i saw the comment earlier today before being informed that the beware had been accepted , i saw it as a random thing and hid the comment, so oh well haha.

The artist has come in and said some nice things and seems to have taken all the suggestions well so that's good. But you are not helping this situation at all with your excuses.

For instance:
The journal was four months old, which is obviously on the page that it was such and she, as a person has changed.
Changed so much that there is currently a rant about cowardly idiots on her journal that was posted three hours ago.

(and when I checked earlier the rant that is being talked about was not the only rant journal up. I'm pretty sure there was another one.)

Normally I wouldn't jump on this, but you are a new friend of mine and I've come to respect your opinion, so I will be honest with you.

I understand that people find Prinny's rant journals a little scary
Maybe the words I used above were too gentle, but to be frank, it's terribly hard to take an artist seriously when they rant like that. It doesn't help that prinny viciously slut-shamed someone. I'm sure prinny has reasons to be upset but there's z e r o excuse to shame someone for their sex life, no matter who it was with.

People are actually commenting on the journal NOW because of this artist beware attacking her and blocking her
If they found this article through A_B, that's against the rules of this comm. That's pretty uncool but it can be acted upon by mods if they're made aware.

When you post a rant on fA, you don't want people to give an opinion about it, it's just a rant, and most likely, because it's public people will give their opinions in the end, but folks should realize that fueling the fire and playing devil's advocate is kind of a dick move on their part as well, just like 'Oh, that dog's mad, let's poke it a couple of times for no reason.'
This argument doesn't work, I'm sorry. FA is a public forum and when you present yourself as a professional there you should absolutely expect to be criticized when you are not being totally professional. I know I do it myself, I've been involved in various drama and arguments, so I'll accept blame for this sort of thing too. You can't toss something like that out there and go "This is only for my benefit, you can't judge me for this because we're all human". If you're running a business on the internet you have to present yourself as a businessperson. Rant journals of this intensity are just not appropriate for a business owner to publish on their page.
Now, if it were on a separate blog away from where she does business, I might side-eye her for the slut shaming but wouldn't bring her business practices to the table. It seems she's doing something like that, though, so good for her

Editing to add: about the attacking the artist bit. I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly didn't just jump on a harassment bandwagon. I presented my honest opinion, with proof of what made me feel that way. I think everyone else looked at all the animosity on either side and thought, "Wow, I've worked with so much more pleasant people, I should avoid these two!" Because let's face it, as sweet and intelligent as prinny seems to be, both sides were being very unpleasant, and just as an onlooker I was made uncomfortable.

Edited 2013-03-11 22:46 (UTC)

(screened comment)

Yeah you acknowledge a mod said stop talking about this but you continue to do it? N. O. Drop it. Freezing and screening.

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BEWARE - Zorax89

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