artists_beware | Commissioner Beware: Sin.

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Entry tags:

beware,
comm-sin.

Commissioner Beware: Sin.

WHO: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sin.

WHERE: YCH Auction I hosted. Here

WHAT: Icon (edited without permission from mentioned commissioner) and unpaid winning bid for YCH auction.

WHEN: September 15th-Current

EXPLAIN: On Sept. 11th, I was emailed by Sin. for a couple $3 Word Bubble icons I have posted on FA of her character and her boyfriend's. Payment was sent and I had the icons finished the next day. She asked for edits to the icons, wanting a different color background and different hairstyle. It was an easy fix and I had them ready the next day (Sept. 13th) I posted them online and noticed the next day (Sept 14th) that both icons were uploaded on her account, but they were changed, and she had added stars to the icons. I was upset by this, as I do not like my work edited without prior permission, and the edits made could have been done by me. I confronted her about the edits, allowing her to keep the edited icons up but telling her that permission is needed when someone makes edits to my work.

This is also the day that my YCH auction was up, and Sin. was the winning bidder for two slots. My description states I need payment 24 hours after the winning and I made this comment a day late, so I understood if a payment is late. I noticed that payment still wasn't made and left a note on the 16th which was read the same day but left unanswered. I sent a second note early morning on the 18th, warning that non payment will lead to her being barred from future auctions if I didn't receive payment by end of the day. This note was also read with no response, nothing at all.

I would be more than happy to wait for payment had I received a response of some type, but so far nothing.

PROOF:

Proof of Icon Edits: ORIGINALS
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/boner100_zps3e4bef78.jpg (NSFW for language)
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/wut100_zps612e0f92.jpg

EDITS
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/ralphwaldopicklechips_zps1a7d0505.gif (NSFW for language)
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/sin_zpsfea253ac.gif

Emails:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/edit_email_zpsfb32ed8e.png (edited to take out my name and her name)

YCH Proof:
Original Auction with 24 hour payment notice:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/24hournotice_zps0eee7538.jpg

Sin.'s winning bids:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/Winningbid_proof_zpsf6fac088.jpg

First reminder note:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/YCH_reminer_first_zpsaba028f7.png

Second:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/YCH_2nd_note_zpsa1b16797.png

Proof notes were read:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/anna-nah-nah2/Artist%20Beware/YCH_notes_read_zpsf96cf389.png

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Aaaah wow, editing stuff without permission is such a gross thing to do... ):
asking for permission doesn't take more than one minute!
I'm sorry that happened to you.

Yeah, when she said she knew she shouldn't have done it, I couldn't help but feel a bit more upset, and I had taken a few moments to gather myself before emailing her to complain about it.

I dunno. Other commissioners always asked if they could edit or change work before, it just caught me off guard.

I'm confused, how does that show the notes were read? There's no such feature on any of my FA notes...

You can tell when someone read their notes when the note title is no longer bold and yellow. At least that is what I understand.

Ohhhkay, I had no idea. Thanks!

Unread notes are bold and have a yellow icon on them when you look at them in your outbox.

Edit: Oops, ninja'd

Edited 2013-09-24 22:23 (UTC)

What is up with Artists and/or commissioners thinking it's okay to edit things without permission? You paid us to do this, and if you wanted stars, you should've said so in the first place. :I

Part of me thinks it is not knowing that the art does still belong to the artist, which it does in many cases like this. People might believe since they paid for it they can do what they please with the work.

Like I said, I felt insulted that she edited the work without asking as I could have made those edits myself if she had asked.

You have every right to be insulted. I have a feeling many people think artists won't do such edits, because some don't, so they just won't ask.

Yeah. I mean I've had customers ask if they can color the line work I did for them and it was fine with me! I didn't mind at all and liked seeing the final product.

Sin. had initiated a few trades with me, and told me to contact her via notes and never responded. Maybe she reads them and forgets to reply? I know a few people who do this.

I don't know as I cannot speak for Sin.
I was hoping to receive some sort of response to the notes whether she was going to pay for the auction or not.

Okay,

first of all,

It was wrong of me to edit the icons.
I told you I would take them down.
I apologized. There really isn't much more I could do.

I really am sorry, all I added was stars and a bunch of trippy highlights. Which was still, very wrong of me to do.

Second,
I have a bad habit of checking notes on my phone while I'm working and forget to respond and pretty much forget I ever had them in the first place.

Again, very messy and unorganized for me to do.

I haven't deleted a single note since probably 2011-2012.

But--
I was having bank troubles, wooh sounds pretty unbelievable, but it's true. I had a whole $10 in one bank account, but $100 in the other that I couldn't touch for a few days because of this whole open a new account with chase thing, irrelevant, sorry.

We both sent emails back and forth about the icons. I was really sorry about it, and still am, it was a really dumb thing of me to do. But you had literally written it off. The discussion was pretty much over.

"You may keep them up. I generally do not mind if people do things as long as they ask before.

As long as you give me credit for them, I am ok. Just ask next time. :)

Thank you for being understanding."

The last message you sent to me.

But back to the YCH, you stated that if I didn't pay by the end of the day, they would be forfeited, and that I would be banned from your auctions, which I completely agreed with.

I was late in paying, and there was literally nothing I could do but wait until I could transfer money into the account that was actually tied to my paypal (because the bank card for the other account wasn't even in yet, and they said I had to leave the money in there for a few days anyway). The bank was very confusing about the whole ordeal, and I actually thought I could withdraw it immediately, but that wasn't the case, which, actually set a lot of things back for me.

I agree on pretty much everything you said,
and I really should have just let you known about the bank situation.

I read notes while I'm up at work with nothing else to do then a customer walks in and I put my phone away and completely forgot what I just did. It's a bad habit of mine. ;;

But I felt it was fair and over with since I didn't pay within the 24 hours, I honestly deserved the penalty.

I thought we resolved the icon issue. I'm in fact no longer using mine because I felt terrible about editing it... I need to get my boyfriend to hop on his account and switch his too.

I feel like I wasn't OUTRIGHT rude in any way, or intentionally at least. So I'm sorry if it (happened to come)// came across this way.

I'm sorry I became one of those commissioners that left a bad taste in your mouth, and for not responding right away.

I realize what I did wrong, and sadly there's nothing more I can do but apologize for it and just not do it again in the future.

Have a great night,
-Sin.

I hope you understand that I included the part about the edits because I felt it was important. Yes, I did allow you to keep them but the fact they were made and posted without permission was something that should be pointed out.

You may not have intended to be rude by your actions, but I was very hurt that the icon I made for you wasn't good enough and needed further editing in order for you to post it. Those were my exact feelings. No one has ever, to my knowledge, edited my work without asking first. So it was a shock to say the least.

To the YCH Auction and notes. I would have preferred that you tell me that it would be a few days, a response to either of the notes or the comment I left would have been fine, but since I had been left with nothing to go by I called it a loss. Money problems happens and I am very understanding of that, but I am also not psychic and cannot guess if you have forgotten to respond, are having difficulties, or if you were simply blowing me off.

All I had were notes that were read and left unanswered and I took action.

I never expected you to guess what was happening, that is not what I meant by that at all. I said that after you made the comment about the 24 hour payment finalization, that I felt that since it had been 24 hours, I deserved the just penalty of being removed from your further auctions, and they would go to the previous bidder.

I felt that was what would, and needed to happen since I failed to abide by your rules. Sure, I should/could have let you know what was going on, but I felt your rules were fair, and it was my fault I could not pay.

I apologize for not being able to pay, and I apologized for not sending a note. There is literally nothing more that can be done at this point, sadly.

You should have let me know your actual feelings about the icons. I am sorry that I edited them, I let you know that I know now how wrong of me it was to do it, and even offered to AND removed my icon. (I haven't gotten a chance to tell my boyfriend to remove his, he is asleep right now and hardly if ever gets on FA.)I didn't "think it wasn't good enough" I was just goofing around and was like "oh hey I really like stars I'm just gunna be rediculous and just draw stars all over this..." (of course that's not really what I was thinking at the time, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at...)

I guess I can empathize how it's important to bring up in this artists beware, but if we privately resolved the issue, and you already let me know and talked to me about it, I really don't understand how it's going to benefit anything by bringing it up to the general public, especially if I don't intend to use the icons anymore. I mean now we all know that: I edited the icons, I apologized, I know it was wrong of me, you told me your feelings.

But other than that, there's nothing further that can be done and I am sorry.

Furthermore; I don't understand what you mean by "took action."

You stated that if I didn't pay within the 24 hours, I would be no longer allowed to participate in your further auctions, and that the slot would go to the next bidder.

And I personally feel that's what should have happened.
As that's what I would have done in your position, because what I did was quite annoying.

Just remove my bids, block me, and give the slots to the previous bidder.

What I did was wrong, I understand that.
None of this was intentional, none of this was done out of spite, or ill feeling, or malcontent.

I was not "blowing you off" intentionally, I got busy and distracted and I had a really lame bank situation to deal with so my brain just kind of went into over-drive and I am sorry.

EDIT: Sorry I had to change wording haha. 2am and keyboards don't go hand in hand.

Edited 2013-09-26 07:00 (UTC)

I appreciate and accept your apology.

I hope you do not take any of this as a personal attack, it was just a bad business interaction. I do not hold any ill will towards you and I do hope things become less stressful for you in the future.

Stepping in here!
If you cannot pay for an auction, tell the artist. Often enough they can extend the pay time (If it's a day or so) or will be happy to withdraw you bid.

It's when people just vanish that artists (well most) feel scammed.

(S)He was not "scammed". I could understand if they had already started on the art, or if I had asked them to, but I was busy trying to get things under control.
Their statement was (along the lines of):

"If I do not receive payment within the 24 hours, you will be no longer allowed to bid on any of my further auctions and the slots will be forfeited to the next highest bidder..."

And, that's what needed to happen.
As I did, indeed, fail to respond or pay within the time limit they reasonably set. And that's pretty much the end of it.

I said they'd feel scammed, not that they were. I was not saying you were a scammer.

Please keep this in mind: When you bid in an auction, you have to go in there thinking that you're going to win, because if "something happens" it's very inconvenient and annoying to an artist when a person ignores/"forgets"/can't pay for the thing they won :/ No excuses. You either bid seriously or don't bid at all.

I did bid seriously. I did go in there, fully planning to pay for both of them, and I had every full intention of winning the auction as well. I didn't just bid AFTER I figured out I had bank troubles. I had no idea the bank was going to throw this at me, if I did, I wouldn't have bid.

I bid seriously, unforeseen troubles happened afterward that were out of my control.

I'm sorry, and don't really understand the point of this comment.

Dumb...

I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot and someone bid on something then had troubles, they would fully expect an extension or forgiveness.

But when someone else has troubles OH GOD EXCUSES

YOU SHOULD HAVE TOTALLY KNOWN THE BANK WAS GONNA FUCK YOU OVER
HOW DARE YOU BID ON SOMETHING AND THEN YOUR BANK NOT LET YOU HAVE MONEY

YOU SHOULD HAVE GOT A GUN AND TOOK IT TO THE BANK AND MADE THEM GIVE YOU MONEY SO YOU CAN PAY OFF MY AUCTION OMFG

(Btw guys she's not lying I witnesses the bank do this we even looked over the statements.)

My comment may be a little hostile but c'mon guys. Problems happen.

At least she isn't ripping people off. Sure these situations happen but everyone makes mistakes.
This one wasn't even her fault :/ just calm down.

Sin is a good person.
Everyone deserves a second chance. Sin isn't a scammer or someone who will rip you off. I know her.

Just calm down a bit and be more professional and civilized.

-Galaxy

Edited 2013-09-27 09:37 (UTC)

You realize the problem here is not communicating the troubles to the artist, right? The artist commented:
"I would be more than happy to wait for payment had I received a response of some type, but so far nothing."
and
"Money problems happens and I am very understanding of that, but I am also not psychic and cannot guess if you have forgotten to respond, are having difficulties, or if you were simply blowing me off."
All Sin had to do was ask permission to edit and tell they have problems paying, but they chose to ignore the artist when they tried to reach out to her.

Also please bear in mind that if you ask everyone to be more civilized and professional while commenting in capslock and profanity and completely missing the point, it's quite hypocritical and rude.

Edited 2013-09-27 11:47 (UTC)

I did not ignore her about the icons.
As soon as she sent me an email confronting me, and letting me know how much it bothered her, I instantaneously felt horrible and apologized, and eventually removed my icon even though she allowed it to stay up.

There was no "ignoring" on that part.
There was no intentional ignoring on any part. I frequent check my messages and forget I even had them.

Like I said, I've already apologized, and I'll do it again, I'm sorry. But there's really nothing more that I can do at this point, as much as I wish there was.

"I did not ignore her about the icons. "
That's why the ignoring thing was attached to the payment, sorry if it came out confusing.

Also, intention is not magic.
We get that you didn't mean to, but it doesn't change the fact you did, and I assume if this post hadn't been done, the artist would never had found out that it was an accident.
You have apologized and that is good, but you're not doing yourself any favors by repeating this to almost everyone. I know you want to defend yourself, but that mostly causes to start more drama and arguments, same happens with friends/fans who come to argue on behalf you.
No one is asking you to do anything (except well, maybe pay more attention that you're not ignoring future people), this post is just to warn other people, not to make you do anything.

No one here has called her a scammer insofar as the comments show. AFAIK I read xubunturamble's "no excuses" comment as something on the lines of "you don't need to go into detail about what's gone wrong on your side, just say what's happened and apologise/do what's relevant to fix the situation", which is entirely all that's needed.

I understand that she's your friend and you want to stand up for her, but your comment would go down better if you were politer.

I don't think you're really helping the situation here.

An extension can only be given if it is asked for. In this case, there was dead silence. That is the whole problem here.

I wasn't expecting an extension.

This is incredibly rude.

I understand that Sin. Is your friend and you wish to stand up for her but I think you allowed your emotions to get the better of you. No one is calling Sin. A scammer nor was it implied she tried to cheat me out of anything.

As I have said before and I will say it again, I would have been fine with her telling me she was having difficulties with the bank and she wasn't intentionally bidding on something she didn't have the money for. The fact of the matter is she left two notes unanswered, giving me nothing to go on and I had no idea.

This isn't a personal issue and shouldn't become one. It was something that effected my business and therefore felt relevant to post here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Commissioner Beware: Sin.

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