Trade Issues

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I did an art trade with a user a while back, everything went a-okay. Both parts are completed. I check FA today and see a 'Prepose' flat rate sale and see something wrong.

It was the trade they did for me.

When I did the trade, they showed me two sketches to pick from, I chose sketch A. The user is now selling off BOTH sketches, including the one I chose, as prepose commissions. They said it was okay because they are not using my character. I told them I felt ripped off, because I expected an original piece, and provided one, and now there will be mass copies made of mine (multiple people can purchase the sketches).

They haven't replied yet, but I'm wondering if it's okay for them to do this because it's a trade, or if I'm right to be upset and feel ripped off?
And if the latter, should I pose a beware?

Comments

MOD NOTE

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

This is an advice post, if you by chance saw a similar post regarding this elsewhere, keep any divulged details out of this post.

Advice posts are for advice, not for outing anybody.

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

you should defs post a beware, i think if they did that, they kind of screwed you over in the trade? either ask for an original piece or just post a beware if they refuse, it's still.. scammish

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

It is not uncommon to reuse poses for work, especially rejected ones, but I will admit this twist to the tale leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

While they think its okay, its honestly disrespecting you yourself and the work you put into the trade.

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

Is it iffy? Yeah.
Is it wrong? I don't think so.

Unless the finished piece was only a sketch level, it's just a pose. You got your finished work, someone else will get their finished work and the two won't share much but a pose. All the work is original to each piece unless the artist is of questionable skill.

You don't get to claim that any art made with pose A is a copy of your commission. It's just a pose. No one owns it.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Trading an original creation for an original creation is what was agreed upon.

Now what I received is no longer original. Even if it's not wrong, they have broken the agreed upon terms.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

Auctioning off the pose you didn't chose would have been fine.
However it is a bit shady to decide to use the pose you did chose as well, especially without giving you prior knowledge they do this.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Having actually seen the sketches in question, it should be noted that it isn't the pose itself that was reused. It was the actual base sketch that is being sold.

While its still their legal right to do so, it's rude to follow through without talking to you about it.

[kasune.livejournal.com]

Since it isn't just the pose being reused and the actual base sketch, I'd have to agree and say it is skeevy. It warrants a beware, IMO, even if it is "legal" to do.

It's not exactly in good taste.

[slinkslowdown.livejournal.com]

Beware would definitely be warranted because they're using the exact same sketch, not just the pose.

[maxi.livejournal.com]

It may be legal to do so but using the exact same sketch is skeevy and I'd be pretty upset if this happened to me too. I think a beware would be warranted.

[vellacraptor.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with everyone else. Even though it is legal for the to reuse the sketch, it is in poor taste and I as a commissioner, artist, or a trader would want to know about what they did and avoid this person specifically because of their behaviour.

//edit Agreeing with the posting a beware 100%

[stormrunner1981.livejournal.com]

Even a finalized sketch it would not be illegal unless they sold the sketch as is - as in no modification - no color changes etc.

An artist work is copyright to them at the end of the day - the character is not, but as I said above with proper changes it isn't copyright infringement (characters are trademark not copyright anyway unless part of a whole).

Just letting you know the ins and outs of this.

Is it something I would do? No. Is it a bit out of sorts... on a moral ground - maybe.

Up to you on whether or not to post a beware however.

Personally - I'd let it go and just don't trade them again. But, that is just me.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I never stated it was illegal, I know it's not. I just asked if I was right to be upset, and if I should post a beware. I know the legalities and artists rights perfectly well.

It's still a shitty thing to do, as it was never agreed upon.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

I would absolutely put in a beware. I would be livid if I were you

[morti-macabre.livejournal.com]

I really don't think it's wrong.
I mean like I obviously cannot see the pose we're discussing but if it's something really mundane then... no.
But if it was something really unique like, gosh, I dunno... juggling while dancing on one foot or something, then I'd be skeeved.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

It's not a pose that was just reused, it was the exact sketch.

[ginkaruja.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm too laid back to be worthy enough to exist, but.....whoever buys the 'sketch' may have some modifications. Even if the artist isn't going to allow such, still. Things can change and have a completely different *feel* each time they're redone. And even if it doesn't, meh. If this had happened to me, I'd tell them it's fine, but just warn me next time, and we can do a trade where we're each other's practice for a pose we want sell off....make it a thing even. Yet tell them to warn people if they do it with anyone else before hand because it is something that people may get their panties in a twist about. I don't think it's really severe enough to post a beware, but again, I'm a loaf.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I would not want to trade with someone if they then tried to milk the base sketch of the drawing they did for me, for all it's worth.

[deathlightdb.livejournal.com]

Technically, there's nothing wrong with this, unless you discussed your desire to have an original piece before trading. I know that you feel that it was probably implicit. I would feel the same way.

This is, however, incredibly rude. You might want to talk to them before you make a beware post, and make them realize that having an artists-beware post over this is NOT worth being lazy. They can always draw a new pose for you, or a new pose for the pre-pose pieces. You should probably ask them whether they really think it's worth having a post against them here, just for the convenience of being lazy in a trade. They might change their song and dance, if you do. (Sorry, I was redundant)

[dizdzi.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately that falls into the gray area where you'll get both sides of "That is morally wrong" and "it's not illegal" kind of thing. It's super bitter, and I say would warrant a beware. Specifically because a beware is to inform other potential people that might be conducting business with a particular individual to be wary of said individual due to this or that. It's not saying "HEY you CAN'T do business with this person" or anything, it's just giving you a heads up on what they've done in the past.


I'd also have some sort of terms for your trades somewhere, or outline it a bit more specifically. Something that basically double checks that both artists are aware that it is a trade for this-and-that of this-and-that character and it is to be original art, not used for profit, not posted up for resale, etc etc

It's really sad that it could even go that far, but after reading this I think I'm going to end up taking that precaution and stating things like that from now on too s:

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, with people backing out and now this, I think I may just write up a trade TOS or FAQ, just a few lines, and toss it to people before we draw.

Trades are supposed to be fun.

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

You traded for original artwork, you got original artwork. Your finished piece is still an original even if the artist gets some extra use and cash out of the sketch. Artists can't eat art that was traded. Getting paid for the sketch by someone else isn't a terrible thing.

I think it's incredibly rude for you to expect otherwise without explicitly saying so before the other artist agreed to your trade's terms. You're basically asking for them to give up some of their rights as an artist without compensation or forewarning. That's not fair of you to demand, and it's not unreasonable of them to have not anticipated the demand.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I think you should give them a chance to reply before posting a beware. As others have said, it's irksome but not exactly 100% wrong. So give them a chance to respond, who knows maybe they will apologize and yank the sketch for sale.

My own opinion, I'd need to see how both finished pieces turned out (if the artist ends up actually using the sketch for another piece) to say if it's beware worthy. Some folks change things up quite a bit in between?
But artists should always let people know ahead of time if they are intending on using/reusing a template (before starting a transaction) to avoid bad feelings.

[werewolfofwater.livejournal.com]

This. I understand being upset, but I think this is a situation where you should try and resolve this matter with the artist before posting a beware. Give them a chance to reply first. If they're like, super rude or something, then maybe post a beware, but otherwise? Eh. I dunno.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I did. They stopped replying. That's why I posted this.