Beware: Starfinder/Kannos

[utunu.livejournal.com]

WHO: Kannos, Starfinder, Astray, etc.

WHERE: https://www.weasyl.com/~kannos, https://inkbunny.net/Kannos, although this commission was not initiated in either of those places.

WHAT: An extensive traditional painting with full background of a tribal wolf character in a forest/jungle by a waterfall.

WHEN: July of 2005.  That is not a typo.  2005.  A brief timeline follows.

• Commission initiated in 2005.  Had found Starfinder's work online, really liked it, decided I'd commission her.  This was my first real commission attempt in the fandom, back when I was apparently a bit too trusting.  Agreed on large traditional piece, full background, agreed upon price of $900.


• Initial payment of $450 paid on July 15, 2005.


• Soon thereafter, Starfinder expressed concern that she had a car insurance expense.  Since, at that point, the commission had been going well, along with her stating that it would be done very soon (in a matter of a week or two), I decided to be kind and help out, giving her the remaining amount due of $450 in the assumption I would not have long to wait.  And I guess that was my mistake; now that she had her money, she had no reason to ever finish the piece.


• Image of the paypal (thanks to Starfinder, actually - she sent this to me because, in the AB post from May regarding the petition to get her back on FA I had finally come out and mentioned my commission experience with her, and she didn't care for me saying 'almost $1000' therein).  http://imgur.com/IuxYuPN


• Communication continued, for a while... I would ping her regularly on IM and email, she would respond with the 'really soon', or comment about the reasons she hadn't had chance yet.  It became harder and harder to get in touch with her over time, and eventually she stopped responding altogether.  I continued to ping, as the years went by, every 6 months or so.


• Now the AB post in May of 2013 came about (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/679851.html).  Finally I decided to say something.  I hadn't posted before, because of the (foolish) hope that maybe she'd come round and my associated fear that if I posted something she'd take offense and I'd lose that 1% chance of ever getting my piece.  Please feel free to read that AB post and see my (much abridged) story there.  Any proof required of the existence and acknowledgement of this particular commission is contained within Starfinder's own responses there.


• Starfinder says she will make good on it.  Of course, it's not going to be what I originally wanted - she doesn't want to do traditional any more.  But at this point, I figured anything would be better than nothing.


• And then the Starfinder Past-Due Shout-Out (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/679971.html).  Further acknowledgement, and she actually started doing preliminary sketches.  Perhaps something would finally come of this!


• And.... no.  I immediately offered feedback on said sketches, was communicating via email with her, and then... silence.  It seems to coincide with the failure of the petition to get her back on FA.  I have sent emails asking for just a response, but have gotten nothing.  The last email I received from her was Oct 5, 2013.  I have sent successive ones since, but nothing.

EXPLAIN: Most of it's up there in 'WHEN'.  All I can say is, this has caused me a LOT of grief and heartache over the years.  I would have been happier throwing that money in a fire, because then at least it was over and done with, rather than being strung along for so many years, coupled with the feeling of being scammed.  I have been completely polite and courteous throughout the ENTIRE situation, and bent over backwards to accommodate all her crises and excuses.  I'm thoroughly fed up.  This was my first commission attempt, and soured me on the whole thing for several years afterwards.  For those who know me and my character, I get a lot of art done these days, and usually from really awesome artists.  And I'm happy that I finally was able to make the attempt at commissioning again.  Thank you to ALL those other artists who made the commissioning process a wonderful one; you've made me a happier Utunu, and I made it so I did not completely lose my faith in the process. :)
Please feel free, in the comments, if any of you would like me to speak further on any aspects of this rather sordid tale. :) I'd be happy to answer.  Right now, what I really want?  I want a refund.  I wanted traditional, she doesn't want to do that.  And you know what?  Anything I did get, after almost 9 years, would feel tainted anyhow.  I had better sign off here, before I start ranting too much. :)
And mods, please let me know if you need anything further for this AB post.  I haven't done this before, so hopefully this is sufficient.

Comments

[ctk-hullo.livejournal.com]

I just looked him up, and, yeup that's accurate. 0_0 Just cut out the middleman to get payments back.

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing she's left it so long now she has no interest in ever finishing it, yet she does not have the money to pay him back. That in itself could be worked around - she could set aside a small amount of money a day to give back. Hell, even $5 a day would get it paid off in around 6 months if my maths is right.

She's a good artist and I was going to commission her myself, but shes lost my business now. Even if she DOES finish her backlog, I wouldn't given her money. As I think Utunu said in an earlier comment, anything I'd get from her would feel tainted just knowing this info.

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

Although likely, not necessarily. (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/statute-of-limitations-state-laws-chart-29941.html) ()

[hidden-kyuubi.livejournal.com]

I say if you want to get her off er butt about it, let her know you'll be consulting a lawyer soon to see what can be done about itif it doesn't get resolved, or see if the lawyer can set up a new contract between you two that she has to have it done by X date. I bet it'd be done pretty quickly after.

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

Somebody posted a comment to one of her journals and she claims she's in contact with you via email - has she made contact with you yet Utunu?

[selunca.livejournal.com]

Jesus Christ.. Way to go Star.. :\

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

good luck OP!

[mpd-84.livejournal.com]

She has a history of tracing other peoples drawings and photos and refusing to site sources. I believe it's part of why she was perma banned on FA.

[corvus-animus.livejournal.com]

I don't normally post here, but today I learned Starfinder is still a thing. Huh.

I'm very sorry about this, but I have to add to the chorus of "not surprised" :/

I really hope this gets resolved! You seem way too awesome to have to go through this!

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

The reward fulfillment is where she has real potential to disappoint. She has a notoriously terrible track record of completing fully paid commissions, in the..what..10+ years I've observed her doing business through the internet and with how many people she's scammed, nothing suggests that she'd actually complete a discounted one or any make-goods or freebies she's promising. Where's the motivation? It's Scooby Snack rules: Money now in the hopes that MAYBE she'll do something later? With a loose verbal contract and a terrible history? Sure she'll get paid per image, but the tiers people signed up for for their rewards are completely on the good will this person has not demonstrated unless it was under duress and extreme negative pressure from our artistic community.

This makes me genuinely upset. I just set up my Patreon the other day with a similar model and have encouraged other non-comic artists to do the same to share our head-worlds and ideas with our audiences without too much financial sacrifice (since most of my experience with it has just been comics), and so far it's been going pretty well and I'm genuinely excited to give back to my fans as thanks for buying me some freedom. But then I see a scam artist like this using it as just ANOTHER avenue to further shirk her responsibilities and potentially scam other people, and it just lessens the excitement knowing there's dishonest people using the same platform. I wish there was a more effective way to tell people they should check the tags here before they hand any money over to any artist in this community to know what they're getting into. Buyer beware!

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

yuck, and yet, somehow unsurprising. I'd say I'd want my money back at this point, but I think we all know how likely that is (are we going to get a sob story again?) If she'd just been paying you back $10 a month since the whole thing went pear shaped she'd have you paid off by now, but I guess that isn't worth doing.

also I am amused and vaguely grossed out that she'd get so uppity at you stating "nearly $1000" because honestly it seems like splitting hairs - I mean, really, does it make her look THAT much better? Not to mention I'd be willing to bet that most people would find the statement "nearly $1000" to be acceptably true/accurate since $900 IS nearly a thousand? and also a heck of a lot of people would say the difference is negligible in terms of getting defensive about such a statement.

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

while I can understand not jumping to punish someone for past crimes on a new(er) website I think in this case there is unforgivable contextual blindness going on. frankly, it puts me off greenreaper even more knowing that despite more than a decade of ripping people off and not changing and continuing to do it -to this day- it's not enough to warrant a block. This isn't somebody who was an asshole at 16 years old and grew up or something (a situation in which I would endorse a "well they gotta do it now-and-here" policy), this is someone who has consistently, repeatedly and with lack of remorse screwed people out of thousands of dollars.

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

I want to say that SOL (hahaha.. erm. sorry. just seems appropriate for this situation, eh? -_-) can be "bent" in situations where the person-who-owes continues to acknowledge that work is owed (and possibly it may have been "restarted" when she ackowledged it as work owed last year)

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

That's why I really want to see her end up in court. She'd quickly find out that a judge doesn't care that she has bills, and you can't pay a lawyer with art. She'd probably end up bankrupt, but she totally deserves it, she needs to learn that real life (and theft) has consequences.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

I don't know how US law works, but under UK law this might be a ten year old debt but as it's been consistently pursued by the OP AND acknowledged by the debtor, it would still be considered an 'active' debt. And that's not even including the fact it's a bait and switch - the customer paid for traditional work, not digital.

[mpd-84.livejournal.com]

Bleh. Lj ate part of my comment. Anyway. She apparently only references stock photos now. Still can't look at her stuff without seeing her mountain of excuses and backlog though :c

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

I feel like it would be easy to string someone along and abuse the statute of limitations if it were as easy as just waiting until the person runs out of time (while continuing to make empty promises so they're less likely to file charges).

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

I agree here, this seems likely to be the case here too, but I'm sure it varies case by case and state by state.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

Urgh! I do understand the artist trap of needing to constantly take on new work to get money and finding it hard to get old stuff done, but any shred of sympathy I had for her situation has now been destroyed. From this it seems she does have the time and is not being truthful about it.

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

The more I read the worse it gets. -_-

[val !! (from livejournal.com)]

someone posted a comment about this issue on her weasyl journal and her response (dated the 16th) was:

"I'm in touch with him via e-mail. I don't care for the mob mentality, so I'll deal with the person who I actually need to correspond with, not the general public. It's between me and this individual, not me and the public."

editted for correct pronouns. sorry!

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

I noticed this as well. I took a screencap of it too as proof in case it's deleted. Utunu still hasn't come on to say if it's true or not (hence why I took the screencap).

[utunu.livejournal.com]

Sorry I haven't responded yet! She did, in fact, email me last night. As expected, the parameters of the commission have changed - she doesn't have the materials to do the traditional painting any more, so would prefer to do digital. She offered scratchboard as a medium, but I'm not keen on that. And, as everyone would expect, she won't refund.
I have responded back. I honestly don't know what I want at this point... the stress and heartache from this are bothering me quite a bit.
She has said she has no desire to let her presence be known in this AB, blaming the 'mob mentality'.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I just don't understand how someone can do something blatantly wrong, then blame other people for recognizing that it's wrong.

900 is an awful lot of money. In the real world, if you take someone's money and don't provide a product, that's theft, and you get sued/arrested. I really don't get how she can think she didn't do anything wrong here.

For the record, and I don't think anyone mentioned it, if you take someone to court and win, it's common for them to be required to pay court fees. I understand why you don't want to, but it might be worth at least looking into. There's plenty of free ways to do so. She has no right to not refund you.

[utunu.livejournal.com]

I know, I should look into it. Being so unfamiliar with the process and being so stressed out already has caused me uncertainty as to whether I should. :(
I feel like a fool for being naive enough in the first place to pay her everything up front, foolish for not bringing this to light far sooner than I have, and afraid to choose the wrong option in resolving the issue. Do I accept art and look even more the fool, or take legal action? The worry, stress, and time are a concern for me.