Beware: Starfinder/Kannos

[utunu.livejournal.com]

WHO: Kannos, Starfinder, Astray, etc.

WHERE: https://www.weasyl.com/~kannos, https://inkbunny.net/Kannos, although this commission was not initiated in either of those places.

WHAT: An extensive traditional painting with full background of a tribal wolf character in a forest/jungle by a waterfall.

WHEN: July of 2005.  That is not a typo.  2005.  A brief timeline follows.

• Commission initiated in 2005.  Had found Starfinder's work online, really liked it, decided I'd commission her.  This was my first real commission attempt in the fandom, back when I was apparently a bit too trusting.  Agreed on large traditional piece, full background, agreed upon price of $900.


• Initial payment of $450 paid on July 15, 2005.


• Soon thereafter, Starfinder expressed concern that she had a car insurance expense.  Since, at that point, the commission had been going well, along with her stating that it would be done very soon (in a matter of a week or two), I decided to be kind and help out, giving her the remaining amount due of $450 in the assumption I would not have long to wait.  And I guess that was my mistake; now that she had her money, she had no reason to ever finish the piece.


• Image of the paypal (thanks to Starfinder, actually - she sent this to me because, in the AB post from May regarding the petition to get her back on FA I had finally come out and mentioned my commission experience with her, and she didn't care for me saying 'almost $1000' therein).  http://imgur.com/IuxYuPN


• Communication continued, for a while... I would ping her regularly on IM and email, she would respond with the 'really soon', or comment about the reasons she hadn't had chance yet.  It became harder and harder to get in touch with her over time, and eventually she stopped responding altogether.  I continued to ping, as the years went by, every 6 months or so.


• Now the AB post in May of 2013 came about (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/679851.html).  Finally I decided to say something.  I hadn't posted before, because of the (foolish) hope that maybe she'd come round and my associated fear that if I posted something she'd take offense and I'd lose that 1% chance of ever getting my piece.  Please feel free to read that AB post and see my (much abridged) story there.  Any proof required of the existence and acknowledgement of this particular commission is contained within Starfinder's own responses there.


• Starfinder says she will make good on it.  Of course, it's not going to be what I originally wanted - she doesn't want to do traditional any more.  But at this point, I figured anything would be better than nothing.


• And then the Starfinder Past-Due Shout-Out (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/679971.html).  Further acknowledgement, and she actually started doing preliminary sketches.  Perhaps something would finally come of this!


• And.... no.  I immediately offered feedback on said sketches, was communicating via email with her, and then... silence.  It seems to coincide with the failure of the petition to get her back on FA.  I have sent emails asking for just a response, but have gotten nothing.  The last email I received from her was Oct 5, 2013.  I have sent successive ones since, but nothing.

EXPLAIN: Most of it's up there in 'WHEN'.  All I can say is, this has caused me a LOT of grief and heartache over the years.  I would have been happier throwing that money in a fire, because then at least it was over and done with, rather than being strung along for so many years, coupled with the feeling of being scammed.  I have been completely polite and courteous throughout the ENTIRE situation, and bent over backwards to accommodate all her crises and excuses.  I'm thoroughly fed up.  This was my first commission attempt, and soured me on the whole thing for several years afterwards.  For those who know me and my character, I get a lot of art done these days, and usually from really awesome artists.  And I'm happy that I finally was able to make the attempt at commissioning again.  Thank you to ALL those other artists who made the commissioning process a wonderful one; you've made me a happier Utunu, and I made it so I did not completely lose my faith in the process. :)
Please feel free, in the comments, if any of you would like me to speak further on any aspects of this rather sordid tale. :) I'd be happy to answer.  Right now, what I really want?  I want a refund.  I wanted traditional, she doesn't want to do that.  And you know what?  Anything I did get, after almost 9 years, would feel tainted anyhow.  I had better sign off here, before I start ranting too much. :)
And mods, please let me know if you need anything further for this AB post.  I haven't done this before, so hopefully this is sufficient.

Comments

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Well. Can't say I'm surprised that nothing's changed. I'm sorry you've been dragged through this.

[rueq.livejournal.com]

From 2005?! That is absolutely appalling. I just cannot fathom leading someone along for that length of time. I feel so awful for you.. $900 is a lot of money. I seriously hope you can resolve this with her.

[kjorteo]

$1,077.95 in today's dollars!

Man, you know an outstanding commission's lateness is getting absurd when you have to adjust the starting figure for inflation.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Not surprised in the slightest, but I am sorry you're still having to go through this.

[sacch.livejournal.com]

2005... Wow. Almost a decade...

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

She was active in the LJ thread you posted as late as last week.

Might be worth commenting on her thread and see if she bites. =/

[utunu.livejournal.com]

Thanks for pointing that out... I went ahead and posted in response to her there, and she emailed me very quickly thereafter. Based on her email, however, I don't think she realized that this AB post had been put up. I responded back, commenting on my unhappiness, and recommended she may want to get on livejournal and let folks know what she plans on doing about it (she says she's having trouble logging into LJ or something, based on the posts over there).

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

I really, really want someone to take her to court, or for a group of people to. She's gotten away with this behavior for YEARS, constantly blaming others- family, significant others, even her own customers for this stuff.

I get that she needs to pay for her bills, but she owes too many outstanding commissions to continue taking them. She needs to get a paying job until she can complete what is owed, instead of continuing to take commissions. Damn.

ETA: It also bothers me that she's one of the few people in the furry fandom who seem to be able to make proper rates off of their work, and yet she has continuously managed to basically steal people's money without doing the work. :/ Sure makes sense that commissioners are wary to pay proper rates on commission work when they see stuff like this!!

[hidden-kyuubi.livejournal.com]

This, with the amount owed to utuntu alone that could be small claims or federal court. I say police/court involvement is probably the way to go. She took you out of close to $1k, and seems to have no intentions of paying you back.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

This saddens me, after encouraging her to keep communicating with clients and telling her I was -glad- to see her make the effort to do better and make good on past commissions, that this occurs.

No ill will, just disappointment.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

Seems she is very selective on whom she replies back to, judging by her activity on the Past Due thread.

She is obviously talking to new people about new commissions, but dismissing people that are owed.

[morti-macabre.livejournal.com]

Nine. Hundred. Dollars.

My God man. My condolences.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Personally, I've always found it distasteful when an artist changes the agreed on media/size/whatnot AFTER taking payment, and NOT offering the option of a refund at the same time. Not everyone is willing to alter what they originally asked for, nor should they.

You are a saint in how long you put up with being ignored while she did other commissions in that close to 10 year period, and I don't blame you for wanting your money back and to be done with it. I seriously hope you continue to only deal with upstanding artists that won't repeat this process, gosh..

I have no advice to offer, just a lot of sympathy for you as both a commissioner and artist myself.

Edit: Grammar.

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with this, changing the medium(especially from traditional to digital art) instead of offering even a partial refund isn't very good business practices.

She is able to get her commissions done quickly when she knows she still has to be paid for them, why cant she quickly get her backlog done?

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

Very sad to hear this, especially on a commission from almost ten years ago

[deejthistle.livejournal.com]

Not surprising (sadly) but still unfortunate :(

Even if it's in small portions, I hope you can get her to refund you. If I'd paid for traditional, I also wouldn't want something completely different, especially after so many years.

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

That is a painful amount of money to lose, sorry to hear. Thank you for warning the rest of us though. She's lost my business thats for sure, I dont care if she gets payment after commissions are finished, reading these posts leaves a very sour taste in my mouth and knowing her history there is no way i would commission her now.

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this- it actually bothers me that people sometimes come in here and say "well, she asks me to pay after completion, so I'm ok with commissioning her..." While I know it's not their problem, I know that I wouldn't be okay with commissioning someone when they still owe literally thousands of dollars in art and products to others.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry this happened to you, I fully understand how shitty you must feel about being treated like this. It's inexcusable :(

[silvertales.livejournal.com]

2005?! $900? And, a change in media?

Uhm... no? A commitment is a commitment, and a commission is an agreement to do the work hired to do, on the conditions agreed, for the amount agreed. It's not a difficult concept.

This is inexcusable.

I am so sorry you find yourself in this situation, and I truly wish I had some sort of solution or suggestion. :(

[devildove.livejournal.com]

What a terrible experience. From one AWD to another, I really hope that she comes through and gives you a refund at some point, because the amount you've lost is ridiculous (and criminal)!

[utunu.livejournal.com]

Thanks - AWD high five! :)

[king-giga.livejournal.com]

Wow that's horrible..

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

I actually felt sorry for Starfinder at some point and was considering commissioning her after all the "but I've chaaaaaaanged!" whining. How she can take this much money from someone then never provide the artwork and still think she's a victim (and have supporters!) just staggers me. She does need to be taken to court over this, because I think that's the only way she'll learn that the law doesn't care about her sob stories, those only work on her whiteknights. And the real world won't give her special treatment because she has nice art. I'd like to see her pay her rent by promising the landlord some art, she'd be on the street a lot faster than she was banned from FA.

[norsepaw.livejournal.com]

Oh boy I cant wait to hear her excuse for this.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it'll be the usual 'you're all against me, my life is so hard, nobody has such terrible bills and problems as I do' spiel that she usually comes out with.

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

I'm not usually compelled to comment here, but I just wanted to let you know how sorry I am for this experience you've had. She's really missed out on a great customer by treating you this way I think. You've been a kind and generous customer to many, with awesome art ideas and great art directing language. May this experience be a minority for you! =)

[utunu.livejournal.com]

Awww, thanks much Eski for the kind words! :) I have had wonderful experiences with commissioning since then, and am glad that that initial experience was not indicative of how it usually is! I only wish I had started commissioning sooner... the bad taste this left delayed my entry into art collection by several years.

[latiro.livejournal.com]

Having to wait almost 9 years for a $900 commission you've paid for is just ludicrous in so many levels, but needless to say, I'm not surprised to see that -Star-/Kannos /still/ hasn't changed one bit.

[ciderfox.livejournal.com]

Oh goodness, so sorry to hear you've had to go through an ordeal like this, it's very unfortunate that it was your first time commissioning someone. I'm glad at least that you've had good commission experiences with other artists, Starfinder is definitely an extreme case. Your art should have definitely been high on the priority list when she was trying to "redeem" herself.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

I'd contact a lawyer, just a free consultation or something and ask how to get your money back and then contact paypal as well and maybe ask if they can suspend her account.
At least asking legal counsel would be something rather than letting it just go to waste. You've got the proof right there.

[vellacraptor.livejournal.com]

This!

Since it was for physical media, hence traditional goods, paypal may be able to do something as should a lawyer. It'd be harder for digital goods bust since the original was a painting it way stand up much easier!

Please consult a lawyer (consultations are free), and possibly ask him as well about her other issues, there may be a large case here.

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

That's horrible.

[foreveranonymus.livejournal.com]

I seriously hope you get your money back, $900 is a ton of money. Echoing what others said, I too recommend consulting a lawyer, because if 34 posts and ~10 years or more of doing this isn't enough to change a person, I don't know what will.

[sekhmet.livejournal.com]

Ah I am sorry this is happening to you, I hope it won't ever happen again either. Also hoping you'll get your money back but that might be a bit of a stretch knowing her history :/