artists_beware

WHO: Kai or any of their many different character names.

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kai/

WHAT: A pay to enter art contest, $9

WHEN: Jan. 27th 2011

PROOF: Journal with the entrant names after the closing, they deleted the original contest journal months ago. http://i42.tinypic.com/34zelxu.png
Paypal transaction. http://i42.tinypic.com/2gtdw1j.png
Today's conversation. http://i44.tinypic.com/jr8qyc.png
'Refund' email. http://i41.tinypic.com/es563m.png

EXPLAIN: I entered a contest Kai ran about this time last year, it was $9 a person and anyone that didn't win still got featured in a group picture with one of their larger (macro) characters. I paid the $9, and I even covered the fees (or lack of, at that point gifts didn't take them yet), everything was going fine and I'd seen the winners pictures had been posted so I waited to see the group picture. It was posted about a month ago and I only saw it today, and I wasn't in it. So I posted on there asking why I wasn't there and got this in response; http://i44.tinypic.com/jr8qyc.png

Now I know I come off a bit hostile in this myself, but anyone that has dealt with Kai at all knows what kind of person they are and what kind of reputation they have. My 'public attack' was a single comment in a small IRC channel, which she was then lectured heavily by the owner of the channel after banning me for it.

After a long conversation during which a mutual friend acted as a middleman while she raged over it somewhere, I was finally given a 'refund' which was sent in CAD instead of the original USD that I paid, and I was made to pay the fees, causing it to come up a total of 98 cents short, over 10% of the total.

Overall a very bad experience and one that I do not wish to repeat. In short, if you value decent customers, stay away from Kai.

Edit: found the IRC logs after some time of digging.

http://www.privatepaste.com/02da40f222

Edit 2/update: Got home from work to find http://i43.tinypic.com/egondl.png in my inbox, best part is she's blocked me so I can't even ask what she's talking about.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Do you have any record of your other correspondence with the artist, particularly anything that might have gotten her upset? It just seems like we're missing a lot of the story here.

What I'd say is that you should confront her if possible about it being CAD instead of USD, but let the fees go. Did the artist ask you to send it as a gift? That's an issue as it's against Paypal's TOS and leaves you with no recourse should things go wrong. As for the fees, I can understand where you're not happy about them, but I wouldn't say that they're unfair. They would have applied the same both ways.

Edit: The more I think about the fees, the less I'm sure. On the one hand, they're just the cost of business, but on the other hand, the artist essentially charged you a dollar for nothing. I'm interested to see other people's perspectives on this.

Edited 2012-01-06 01:47 (UTC)

As far as the fees go... Yes, the OP is out a dollar, but it didn't go to the artist. It was taken by Paypal as a fee for using their services. It sucks in this case, but I'd hesitate to call it unfair. Just the cost of using Paypal.

Refunding the entry fee in CAD instead of USD is definitely the fault of the artist. I would be more than a little irritated by this, given that the conversion rates are sometimes pretty harsh.

I'm also curious as to what the rest of the story is here. This might not be the case, but... it certainly appears that bits of what was said are being selectively omitted. If they aren't incriminating, why leave them out?

Yeah, that's why at first I wasn't going to call it unfair. On the other hand, the OP isn't square when the artist just decided they couldn't work with the OP, which seems unfair too.

Does IRC log chats? I'm not familiar with it. Though as for that it would be easy enough to just restate more or less what was said.

It's shaky ground, for sure. If the artist were more kind, they might have included a buck to cover fees... though it's not obligatory, and it looks like the whole transaction wasn't done on the best of terms.

I really couldn't say whether or not IRC logs chats... but a screencap or even just a general recap of the conversation would've cleared up some foggy areas. If only just to make the OP appear more honest. It's hard to sympathize with someone who only tells the parts of the story that weigh in their favour, as much as everyone may WANT to sympathize.

I'd agree with you on that one, but the gift option seems like dodging the fees on Kai's part, but then excepting the OP to pay them on this one. That doesn't strike me as a very good practice.

I'm kind of figuring there aren't screencaps, but yeah even a simple "This is what I said, this is what Kai said, to the best of my recollection," would go a long way.

If part of the contest entry was sending the entry fee in the form of a gift payment, then I agree with you. Kai should have paid the fees on the refund. However, if sending the entry fee as a gift with all paypal fees included was done as a kind gesture from the OP, then Kai isn't obligated to return the favour, even if she maybe should have anyway.

It depends upon the IRC chat client you use. But that said, I've yet to find an IRC client that DOESN'T have a logging option. Usually it's in the form of either text file and/or HTML. (I use the most popular IRC client, mIRC, which does text files, though I think newer releases may allow options for other formats.) Sometimes you have to manually enable logging depending upon the program, but it's usually as easy as clicking a checkbox.

(Icon love, Terry Pratchett for the win <3)

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

To the OP: thanks for posting the IRC logs! That definitely puts a new spin on things.

Posted the old IRC logs, the only thing that was said in the conversation today was said via a mutual friend so I'm not sure how valid it is.

Daaaaang. Talk about mixing personal and business. Beware well warranted. Good on you for posting the logs.

Posted IRC logs

Thanks for posting the logs. I know I'm not the only person who appreciates it.

I don't see why OP should be out fees both too and from the artist when from all I can see, artist is the one who had a snit and canceled the commission over something that should have been fairly minor, didn't bother to tell the OP until they asked, and was extremely insulting about it too.

That's my general feeling about it, too. Unfortunately in a world where doing the right thing and fulfilling obligations aren't one and the same... The artist never asked for fees to be paid, and isn't obligated to include them in the refund. It sucks, and it's a pretty crappy thing to do on the part of the artist, but the OP can't really demand those fees back.

Okay... Still an artist to avoid working with.

Amen.

Kai...

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