Beware: Sin.

[jeiwolf.livejournal.com]

WHO: Sin.

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sin.

WHAT: Originally, a commission of 10 chibi's. Eventually changed to 2 sketch pages for artist convenience. Changed again to a single piece for artists convenience.

WHEN: November 15th, 2010 - January 12, 2012

PROOF: The original agreement on November 15th, 2010 where Sin. accepted $40 for 10 fully colored pictures.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence2.png

EXPLAIN: Originally, Sin. was hard up for money and needed quick buck to help her out with some things. I had some expendable cash and had recently discovered her, so I thought I could help out and get some art along the way. By November 20th she had accepted my ideas and was to begin work on the pieces ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence3.png ).

From that date, all of the interaction between Sin. and myself took place over messengers where it was easier to quickly communicate ideas. She finished pieces from others who commissioned her from the same journal as I did and even started taking more commissions both from journals and livestreams. She claimed that she would work on mine, but I never was shown any progress nor would she work on them in public view for me to see. I was careful not to be belligerent, however, and did not push her too harshly to finish them. Now and then I would reminder her that she still owed me things only to be met with "Oh I know! I haven't forgotten about you!", but it yielded no actual results.

For the next few months this went on, asking for updates and reminding that she still owed me work while she continued to take and finish others commissions right before my eyes, but she said that so many pictures were too difficult. So I agreed for the sake of getting SOMETHING for my money to condense it all down into two sketch pages instead of 10 fully colored pieces. This was completely for Sin.'s convenience. More months pass and despite claims of having a full page completed, no progress was shown physically. Eventually after a lapse of contact I sent a note to ask how the sketches were going at which point she admitted to being behind and opted instead to give me 5 pieces of art fully colored ( HALF of the original amount ) for my troubles. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence4.png And http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence5.png ).

I stated that I would tell her precisely what I wanted at a later date, since I wasn't exactly sure at this point what to commission. Things stayed this way for a couple of weeks until my girlfriend and I chose what we wanted. The idea of a five person commission, despite her request to only have 3 per pictures, was given to her with the perk of it being the only picture she would have to complete to fulfill her duty to me. At first she accepted, but once confronted with the idea of drawing it decided it would be too difficult and backed down. Several more days pass and I allow my girlfriend some of the slots that I didn't know how to use to get a reference sheet. She knew the details better than I would, so I had her contact Sin. directly. Sin. denied my girlfriend without attempting to contact me based on the fact that they were my slots.

This all leads to January 12, 2012 when she sent me this note with no provocation from myself. Needless to say, I was surprised to see it pop up in my inbox. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence6.png ). Of course, having been as patient as I was ( even recognized by herself at one point ) this felt like a kick in the gut. Finally we work out the deal to do the original idea that I had come up with for the 5 person commission and that would fulfill her obligation to me.

She insisted on doing this commission immediately to get it out of the way. I had things to take care of and it was getting very late, so my girlfriend handled the details for me. Immediately she continued her rude attitude and made things very difficult to the very end.

It is obvious from looking at the piece that her normal care was not put into it and it was finished in under an hour after over a year of waiting. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/beecarcommission.png ). No background, sloppy lines, hardly adding ANY detail.

Finally, as soon as she finished the commission, she posted a journal about her experience with "us" and showing her true emotion and attitude. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence8.png ).

I do a lot of commissioning and this is the worst experience I have ever had. Stay FAR away from this artist.

Comments

[crimson-flygon.livejournal.com]

Dying to know what in the world your girlfriend said between her contacting you with "You are so patient thank you so much <3" and the unexpected rant of random all caps and bolds because SHE isn't TAKING THIS any MORE. <<<EMPHASIS ARROWS<<<< Looked like a bad situation being handled "OK" until the sudden turn for the worst. Unfortunate to see it transformed into a piece of art you can't be satisfied with and the artist writing an infamous shoot-themselves-in-the-foot journal. I'm sure it would be informative to see what your girlfriend/you said to her. Also when she notes that one of you made a journal about it and deleted it, any info on that you could provide? From this perspective she does seem to be definitely in the wrong and acting entirely unprofessionally, it'd be fair to see the "whole story" though, it feels like a bit is missing when we've only seen what she said.

[beepuppy.livejournal.com]

Hey! :3

I was the one to make a journal; I was stressed and made a quick journal noting to people that I didn't appreciate being gossiped to about people I'm close friends with. I deleted it when I realized that it could be misconstrued to be a drama hook.

When I questioned whether she would be okay with using Carrot's slots for the reference sheet auction she'd offered (which I'd won), she responded with anger and defensiveness,(this was during a livestream which I eventually left. Unfortunately I didn't save the log.) stating that she'd offered that auction for quick cash and needed the money now. I was rather taken aback, and told her that was fine (as I've been in that spot myself many a time) and that I would have been fine just paying for the reference sheet outright, I'd simply been checking to see if that was okay.

Her response of that she didn't care whether or not I wanted it was very snippy, and if I remember correctly, she even made mention of that she was "sick of dealing with me". I shrugged it off with a "Whatever, dude. It's not a big deal. We'll figure it out later." I then left the stream, well aware that she was angry and not wanting to further an already stressful situation for the both of us.

Her response was to hide my comments on the auction submission and immediately tell the next highest bidder that he'd won without questioning me on whether I actually wanted the reference sheet or not. I didn't comment, deciding it wasn't worth the stress. Shortly thereafter, she sent the note above to Carrot.

Edit: it was the auction submission, not a journal, that I'd bid on and been hidden on.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Wait, so you won an auction and instead of paying her you asked to use one of your BF's slots? O.o If that was the case, I'd be annoyed as an artist, too.

[beepuppy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the auction was won for $15 so it occured to me that maybe this could help take off some of what she already owed him (as I had his prior permission to ask for stuff using his slots). We were friends, so I didn't think it would be as big of a deal as it was.

Again, I had planned to just pay for it regardless if she said no, but when she blew up at me she withdrew the option before I had a chance to do so.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

It's still really bad form. Not only did you basically barge into a transaction that didn't involve you, you bid on an auction and won it without even clearing your proposed alternative method of 'payment' with the artist first.

Not saying that the reaction to it was justified because it certainly was not, but you were definitely in the wrong with your actions and I hope that you have learned from the mistake.

[beepuppy.livejournal.com]

Well, I was invited by Carrot to use the slots, or I would not have dared even bring it up. :P

It was only an idea I was asking her about; I had planned to simply pay for it at the time of bidding, and still planned to pay her myself up until the point where I saw she'd taken the next highest bidder instead.

I certainly never meant any offense by it.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

It doesn't matter if your SO invited you to do so, because the artist had no idea that this was happening. Before you even placed your bid, you should have talked to Sin about it. I can understand where she is coming from when she snapped at Carrot about you, because it pretty much was from left field for her.

I do agree with Shuki that it was poor on her to react the way she did, but that is something you shouldn't do in the future.

If I were in her shoes, I'd be miffed as well. Granted, my reply would have been far far more professional to the both of you. Something along the lines of "I deeply apologize for taking this long, but please clear any slot giving by me first to avoid confusion!"

[beepuppy.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely. I was mistaken in thinking I could behave that casually, and I do regret not taking every possible step to avoid this sort of confrontation.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

You're still missing the point I'm afraid. It was something that should have been cleared with the artist first and done outside of the environment of an auction, period.

Would you walk into a store, pick up some items then head to a cashier and say "You owe my boyfriend some money so pay for these for me"?

I hope the answer is "of course not."

While my metaphor is far from perfect, I hope it can get across to you the inappropriateness of the situation. An auction is something that is obviously done because the person wishes to raise money. That's the point of them. While I'm sure you meant no harm by it, I'm really not surprised that she picked someone else.

[vellacraptor.livejournal.com]

I'd be like "uh?" as well as an artist, but no reason to get snippy over it. Certainly not hide all the comments and not even ask if they still wanted to pay for the slot.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I agree with Taasla. Unless you had planned to still pay her for the auction, you were in the wrong with that. Her response to you was definitely out of line, but she was not wrong for being peeved.

(frozen comment)

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

She says above she still planned to pay it, she was just asking. I wouldn't flip out over such a request, that doesn't make any sense. Someone's been extremely patient with me then I loose my @#$@# because they inquire about a work around? No.

(frozen comment)

[ocelotish]

I think that's something that's really hard to judge without the logs. It depends a lot on the manner of how it was done. Even if done nicely, I can still understand being miffed when a person is participating in an auction with apparently no intention to pay the amount they bid.

Someone's been extremely patient with me then I loose my @#$@# because they inquire about a work around? No.

This wasn't the commissioner, it was the girlfriend. It's hard to tell, but I'm not sure the artist was even aware that the commissioner was giving a slot to the girlfriend before this incidence.

(frozen comment)

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I just don't see how any of that justifies the 'tude seen in the letter to the OP.
I mean it's not the worst ever, but it's just not the way you start talking to a customer who's been waiting a year and who's SO may or may not have done something a little out of line, you know? I'd start off with an open ended "hey, can you tell me what was up with this ____?"

(frozen comment)

[ocelotish]

I agree, the note to the OP was unprofessional and said as much elsewhere. However, I can understand being harsher with the girlfriend.

(frozen comment)

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I wasn't putting too much weight on the exchange with beepuppy since we can't see the exact convo. Same with what the "deleted journal" was about.

I mean I can see why the artist would be annoyed I just don't think they have the right to take it out on anyone, even beepuppy (though as I said, there's no proof of the artist acting up against beepuppy, just OP). Somehow I imagine it was more this issue being brought up on stream (publicly) that pissed the artist off.

(frozen comment)

[ocelotish]

I don't think it was necessarily commendable to take it out on beepuppy; however, that's a much more reasonable reaction, especially when we don't have the logs.

Something like "I was hoping to use one of jeiwolf's slots" can be asking to beepuppy, but to the artist might say "I wasn't intending to pay real money." I'd be pretty mad at someone attempting to use a $4 slot that isn't theirs to pay for a $15 auction that they bid against other people on.

(frozen comment)

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Like I said, it's on the artist if they flipped their poop over something like that. Beepuppy says they were just asking and intended to pay; we can't see the convo but unless beepuppy is lying outright, that's just another example of the artist getting preemptively outraged and shooting themselves in the foot.

(frozen comment)

[ocelotish]

You completely missed my point. >.>

My example was demonstrating that beepuppy could have been telling the truth and been polite in a way where we could still understand the artist reading it as beepuppy trying to pull a fast one, and yes, I can understand the artist getting upset with that.

(frozen comment)

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

No, I understand your point, I'm saying it doesn't matter if it is understandable that the artist might feel annoyed? Because unless Beepuppy did something that was UNQUESTIONABLY shady the artist should have swallowed their kneejerk feelings and dealt with it calmly, figured out what was up.

[rayiroth.livejournal.com]

Okay I have to say I found you unreasonable here, for the same reason as taasla stated.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I can't see the convos so I don't really know how the actual tones of these exchanges was, but I don't see anything wrong with what you did as long as 1) it was just an inquiry and 2) you planned to pay the $15 (as you said, yes) and 3) you DID NOT PUSH THE ISSUE as soon as she said no, and told her you'd pay right then.

ETA: but though there's nothing WRONG with it, I imagine asking in-stream (rather then in-private, or ideally have your BF ask via PM since they are his slots) didn't help the situation. It's a fairly confrontational medium, being in front of friends and fans and such.

(edited again; was getting carried away)

[beepuppy.livejournal.com]

I didn't say much after she said no and I told her that was fine, that I'd be fine with just paying her straight up myself. She was very angry and all I could do was apologize for offending her, which was ignored. At the point where she stated that she didn't care whether I wanted it or not, I replied with "Whatever dude, we'll figure it out later" (not meant in a rude or snarky way at all, though I can see where it could be misconstrued as such) and left the stream so she could work on her current commission in peace.

As Carrot stated somewhere else in here, Sin and I were fairly good friends for a long while preceding this situation, so I was rather taken aback by how she responded to my idle inquiry. I definitely didn't mean to overstep any boundaries, and I regret having done so publicly; I didn't think very hard about it before doing it, since we'd often just chatted about commission ideas and options in streams beforehand. That is fully my responsibility, and though I believe her reaction was a little over the top, I was in the wrong in provoking that situation and should have asked her about it privately.

[thelegendofsin.livejournal.com]

I have no proof of this, but you only said "whatever dude" because if I had any idea that you were still wanting to pay the $15, I might have actually taken it.

You just said "whatever dude" and left.

[beepuppy.livejournal.com]

I apologize if you didn't see it, as the chat was moving fairly quickly, but I definitely did offer to just pay it outright and your next post was "I don't care if you want it or not :)". I assumed that was in reply to that offer and figured you were too angry to talk to me at the time.

I also sent you a note almost immediately following this whole situation apologizing for offending you and explaining what I meant, which you read but did not respond to.

Note can be viewed here: http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad344/maskedpuppy/notetosin.png