Inkwell-Pony - Serious delay and only partial art.

[ssvanti.livejournal.com]

WHO: Inkwell-Pony (unaware of other aliases if any)

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/Inkwell-Pony, http://inkwell-pony.deviantart.com/ (unaware of other galleries)

WHAT:  Complex Shaded digital Pony version of Ssvanti. (lines are complete)

WHEN: 16March2011 till 31May2012 (present day and counting)

PROOF: See conversation that follows.

Edit:(1) Added Deviantart gallery and livcut.

EXPLAIN:  Artist took money in full up front, including tip. Took 3 months to provide the lineart for approval. I’m still waiting over a year and some months for this to be completed. Artist has failed to respond to any communication since 17September2011! ( I will no longer issue tips until work is completed) Artist shows lack of ability to maintain a workflow, lack of communication unless prodded, and after a while quits on the project altogether and disappears.

I tweeted to have anyone who knows Inkwell-Pony to contact him and let him know of his deadline of midnight on the 17^th of May.

I Filed a chargeback on the card used to pay for the commission as Paypal refuses to allow a dispute/claim after 45days of transaction. This was done at 11:59pm cst on 17May2012. Initial response from bank was a decline, something about 60 days from first billing cycle to dispute thanks to the changes Obama made to credit card law. I’ve reopened the dispute and am waiting to see the results. If the chargeback is a go, I will refund the artist for the lineart when they find the time to contact me again. I always pay for work. If the chargeback doesn't go through, the artist was wrongly tipped and has been overpaid for work on top of that. I'll be forced to either take this to small claims court or get the artist to issue the refund through Paypal.

Attempted to email the Paypal address several times, always came back with “Undeliverable”

Sent Note on 16March2011 07:35 – to Inkwell-Pony - How bout a complex shaded with background of Ssvanti? :D

Received Note on 17March2011 01:38 – from Inkwell-Pony - Gladly! ^^ I was in need of monies, too, so that's awesome timing. ^^ Complex Shaded Pony with Background would be 20 dollars. ^^ Yay, gas money!

Received Note on 17March2011 03:54 – from Inkwell-Pony - So, when will you be able to send that money? Not to be a nuisance...

Sent Note on 17March2011 04:43 – to Inkwell-Pony - As soon as I can get enough time sitting here to open paypal, my spreadsheet and modify my commission list with your info and shoot payment :D

Sent Note on 17March2011 08:00 – to Inkwell-Pony - Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID # ----)

Sent Note on 17March2011 10:17 – to Inkwell-Pony - I have a silly little addendum to this, I hope you don't mind.
My character ref is: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1868862/ <-- I am having this redone to help summarize it. Just fyi.
My commission policy is: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1966352/
Summary of the commission policy = I mostly follow the artists policy, but I reserve the right to re-post the images to any accounts I own, I prefer the symbol to appear in one form or another (and since ponies have symbols just put it there ;p, since this is an icon and just my character most of the other stuff doesn't apply.
I'll need your paypal info so I can shoot you monies, as well as anything else you feel I should be aware of.

Received Note on 17March2011 10:23 – from Inkwell-Pony - Character references make things easier, and I was going to ask what you wanted with the cutey mark, so that works. Anyhoo, send the money to ----

Received Note on 17March2011 10:27 – from Inkwell-Pony - I do just wish you had a sample that I could actually view in public. ^^' But otherwise, this shouldn't be a problem. Already have a few ideas for the pose and everything.

Sent Note on 17March2011 10:39 – to Inkwell-Pony - I'm a little lost at the comment ^
If you mean accurate character reference sheet, i actually avoid those, i don't like artists copying the same design over and over. Part of my commissioning process is to find newer styles and/or get the artists rendition.
I DO have a few things I like consistent, and that's what the text file is for.
If you want to see what the EQ2 model looks like click this:
------------
The thing I try to point out, and it is being re-written, is to get the artist to understand I don't want the EQ2 model copied verbatim. The model has the wrong number of fingers, no toes, and could constitute copyright infringement if the model is 100% copied, even though there IS a clause in SOE ToS for the game that allows fanart/fanfiction.
The problem I'm facing right now is alot of artists just copy Darkgoose/Projectblue02/Acidapluvia works and that was not my intent.
After the pony, I'd be possibly interested in a fuller commission if you still need money.

Received Note on 17March2011 10:45 – from Inkwell-Pony - I more meant that every pic you linked me to had huge “Censored”, and if I took that sample pic to school in order to work on it after class, my Teacher would KILL me. ^^'

Sent Note on 17March2011 12:25 – to Inkwell-Pony - omg lol :D

Sent Note on 01July2011 12:34 – to Inkwell-Pony - It's been 3 months since I prepaid for a pony :/ I've received no status on it in that time, nor have I seen it in your scraps or gallery. Status please.

Received Note on 09July2011 01:15 – from Inkwell-Pony – Sorry, I had some stuff going on with my life. I'll get right on your commission. Sorry for the delay!

Received Note on 12July2011 06:06 – from Inkwell-Pony – Work in progress: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6107520/
Just wanna know if this is fine before I move on to the coloring stage. ^^ Please let me know!

Sent note on 12July2011 06:31 – to Inkwell-Pony - That's adorable :D could you shrink that silly stamp? ;p

Received Note on 12July2011 09:05 – from Inkwell-Pony - It will be over the background in the final version. This is just the initial black and white sketch. Any thought on what sorta background you'd like?

Sent Note on 12July2011 10:14 – to Inkwell-Pony - Whatever you like :D

Sent Note on 13September2011 01:09 – to Inkwell-Pony - Not quite 3 months since last contact, but just checking in.

Received Note on 17September2011 06:44 – from Inkwell-Pony - Understood! Sorry, school has been kicking my flanks, as has the mother of all artist blocks. I'll try to get to it as soon as possible, but it may be a little bit. I am trying to break my block with a little art project in honor of the new season as well, but I'm not sure how well it's turning out.
Well, if anything presentable happens, you should see it soon, and then I should have more by the time the week is out.

Sent Note on 22January2012 05:31 – to Inkwell-Pony – Hey there, been quite some time now, still haven't seen the colored and finished version. Status update?

Sent Note on 15April2012 03:45 – to Inkwell-Pony -  Checking back with you, been another 6 months.... total wait time already over a year for a project that was supposed to be quick and easy.

Sent Note on 17May2012 01:04 – to Inkwell-Pony - I'm done playing games. I don't really care how harsh this comes across, I"m done.
Provide the rest of the prepaid for work or the $16 bucks back that I invoiced you for on paypal. If you continue to ignore me, I'll take action myself.

Comments

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

The artist appears to have a DeviantArt account.

http://inkwell-pony.deviantart.com/

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

... and it states the user last visited DA an hour ago as of this comment.

[ssvanti.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Can this get an LJ cut please?

Edit: This is a mod request, no further cut posts beyond this point.

If you are unsure of how to make a cut, please check out this link. http://www.livejournal.com/support/faqbrowse.bml?faqid=75

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

All things in this post that bother me aside: Did you ask an artist to "shrink" their watermark on an ink preview? If so that really rubs me the wrong way, and honestly most artists should watermark their art before it's finished - it kinda stops people from running off with the image before it's done.

I'm just curious if that's what "shrink that stamp" means? I don't want to make assumptions here.

I also want to mention: If you don't want people to copy your reference images, then don't give them those reference images. Give them something simple, correct, concise and NOT adult. It sounds like they were uncomfortable with the references you provided, or simply had to many to pull from. Do not use references of art you don't want copied, or expect the artist not to use visual aids.

I feel like you both sort of made a few mistakes here, and I hope she does your image soon.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

The "stamp" is actually something the commissioner asked the artist to put in. It is the commissioner's own mark.

[ssvanti.livejournal.com]

My commission stamp. I ask if artists will sign their work, put their own stamps etc, but i can't force them too. I can make the stamp for me a requirement for finished product, which I do. Too many art thieves and dump sites that don't give credit back to the artist. If the artist isn't recognizable by my stamp is, they can contact me and I'll point them at the galleries of the artist who did the work. Unless the artist asked to be anonymous.

[ssvanti.livejournal.com]

At the time I only commissioned porn or nudity, there was no reason to have a non-nude reference. I only had written reference anyway. The only reason I put non-nude art in my gallery is because the artist didn't want the nude/porn version to be displayed publicly, OR because they did both versions so people who don't turn on mature/adult works can see something too.

With that explained, I haven't had an actual reference made till just last week. I'd still not decided on all the specifics of what I wanted the character to be until now. Anyone using ref up til now was refusing to use the text reference.

Of course I made mistakes, or I wouldn't be posting this. I never said I was perfect I'll never be perfect ;p

(frozen comment)

[skittlewolf.livejournal.com]

The fact you have a ToS for when you commission people, that may or may not override the artist's ToS really bothers me for some reason.

(frozen comment)

[ssvanti.livejournal.com]

Why? It's how actual commission occur. Both parties usually sign a contract stating terms for both parties. In many cases, the contract is written up by the person/company hiring the artist and the artist either accepts or declines in full.

My policy also assists with weeding out trouble. If the artist refuses to accept my terms, it's easy sailing and more money for someone else who will accept them.

(frozen comment)

[yoka-neko.livejournal.com]

I think what skittle means is that you are choosing the artist to draw your character. Having your own TOS would not mean a thing as you have already agreed to the artist's conditions. By commissioning an artist you already own the right to take action if they do not deliver, so you do not need to write your own terms.
That being said, a year for art is unacceptable and i hope you get your picture finished or refunded.

(frozen comment)

[ssvanti.livejournal.com]

You couldn't be more wrong. The moment the artist accepts the money, they agree to be bound terms agreed upon by BOTH parties. It's not one way only. That's why it's important to ensure the artist reads the commissioners terms not just the commissioner reading the artists.

To do it properly and remove any doubt, a single document outlining the terms of BOTH parties should be drafted up and signed by both (or stating an action such as sending payment and receiving payment constitutes acceptance by each party) Though this is not a legal requirement, merely a formality.

(frozen comment)

[yoka-neko.livejournal.com]

Sorry but no, i have read your TOS and it conflicts with a lot of general TOS put by artists. You only need one, and that "is usually stated by the artist from which you read through it and agree that it is equally fair on both the buyer and seller.

Also the whole interest thing is unfair, and although you can to do that, it is taking it a bit too far imo, you are not a bank lending thousands of $. If anything, i have become more aware to avoid commissioners who have a "roommate agreement"

(frozen comment)

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Regardless of whatever TOS the commissioner has, the artist agreed to them. This post is regarding the well overdue commission, not the terms under which it was done. Thus, this discussion is off-topic and I am freezing this thread.

(frozen comment)

[linksage.livejournal.com]

Seconded.

(frozen comment)

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Yes, this. When you buy a product from a store or hire someone for a service, you don't get to impose your own terms and conditions so why should it work in the art world? Unfortunately it seems that a lot of artists are naive about their rights.

(frozen comment)

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I at least hope the OP shows the link to the artist beforehand. Since I've never seen anyone else do this, I'm sure pretty much no artist would check the commissioners page to see if there's a TOS and I'd be mighty miffed to have these issues turn up in the middle of the commission.

[linksage.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure the little snark about President Obama was necessary here. You can't expect a credit card to readily charge back $16 over a purchase that took place over a year ago.

I pretty much agree to what's already been said. "Censor barred" or not, it was very inappropriate to only give the artist porn piece(s) to work from, even more so considering that the artist you've commissioned here is likely 18 or younger based on their talk of school and teachers.

Also, I understand what you're trying to get at with the "buyer's TOS", but it comes off as insanely pushy/entitled. I personally would not work with someone who shoved something like this at me. For analogies sake, you can't just walk into a movie store and do whatever you like with what you buy there just because you bought it. Most artists are willing to make exceptions if there's something in their TOS that doesn't work for you, especially in terms of posting in your personal galleries; you need only talk to them about it.


That being said, a year for such a small commission is far too long, and the lack of communication on the artist's part is inexcusable. Hope this works out for you.

[ssvanti.livejournal.com]

The snark was a warning to commissioners that they need to double check the terms of their card before they plan on being able to use chargeback as a last ditch/safety net option when dealing with people who can and sometimes will potentially take your money and run.

As to inappropriateness of my ref, since I didn't have ref at the time I used images in my gallery, the artist chose to use the images as opposed to the textual description that was his choice. Ultimately that's not my issue. I commission nudity and adult works. If the artist is not the appropriate age for such work their profile should states as such so that commissioners like myself can avoid them.

As to the constant barrage of "if you walk into a " comments, I'm sorry, I'm not walking into a store, I'm hiring someone to make "CUSTOM" item(s) for myself, to the specifications that I give. If the artist cannot provide what I'm looking for under my terms I will go elsewhere. I'm not buying premade art they have on hand. But the fact that it puts you off would hint to me to avoid you also. Thanks for the heads up!

Yes it's truly inexcusable and I do so hope it's resolved completely at some point.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

Yea, but limiting the time on chargebacks isn't Obama's fault - the majority of credit card companies only had a max chargeback time limit of 90 days. Expecting to be able to get your money back after over a year? Not Obama's fault.

I'd like to see actual screencaps instead of copy-pastas of the notes sent between you and the artist, to see if you actually did inform them of your TOS. :P