artists_beware | Artist/Builder Beware!!!

EXPLAIN: Ok, so what had happened here was I commissioned Poprock back in December for some crow wings. I was having a different builder make a head for me, so I thought it’d be a good idea to make a collaboration of multiple builders for a partial suit. Poprock was saying, at the time, that she was really desperate for commissions, so I thought I could help her out by hiring her. I was talking with her on Second Life about the commission I had in mind, and even modeling it after a different builders design. When I asked for a price quote, she said that it would cost me $125, which I thought was a reasonable price. Afterwards, I asked Poprock how long it would take to make them, and she said that it would only take a couple of months to do. So, from there I sent her a duct tape dummy of my arm, and an envelope containing the down payment for my wings. ($50) In about 2 weeks she began working on the wings and had a livestream video of her working on the wings. In a couple of days she sent me a picture of the progress of the wings. They looked pretty rough so I hoped that they’d look better over time, and in all honesty I was just happy that I was getting the commission made. Periodically, I would check in to see if any progress was made on the wings. At first I was asking once a week because I was really excited having this commission done. Poprock told me, whenever I asked, that no progress had been made on them since the livestream video. I started asking less often because I wanted to give her some space and not put any pressure on her.

A month passes and I ask about the progress of my wings. She again says that no progress has been made. When the next month passes, she asks on Facebook for some money so that she could buy something. Out of generosity, I gave her that money and we both agreed that it would be put towards paying off my wings. ($35) I was hoping that by paying her a little more to what I owed, that it would motivate her to work on my wings. To my disappointment, another month passes and zero progress has been made. Yet again, she asks for money for another thing (which I don’t know what it was) so I gladly obliged and paid her the remainder of the money on my wings. ($40) Of course I was hoping that some progress was made on my wings by now...she tells me that barely anything had been done. I was remaining patient as possible with her because I knew that if I said the wrong thing, she’d probably get mad at me and take even longer on making them. It’s around April 2011 this time, and I ask her if she could give me a deadline on when the wings might be finished. At first she tells me that she’ll have them done by the end of the month. As April came to a close, I asked if she was almost done, and Poprock told me that only one wing was done, but I would have to wait a bit longer. Also, to state, there were multiple times when she was guilt tripping me by explaining why the wings were taking so long, and she even offered me a full refund in May because she was feeling really upset about some stuff. Being a nice guy, I told her that I was willing to wait for the wings instead. (I fell for her guilt trip)

Eventually, she told me that the new deadline would be at Anthrocon 2011. Even as the days drew closer to Anthrocon, I still asked if any progress had been made on the wings. She dodged the question by saying they’d be done by Anthrocon. So, Anthrocon arrives and I eagerly wait to finally pick up my wings at Poprock’s booth. When I get there, she tells me that they aren’t done. She goes on to say that she has a bunch of commissions in progress, that she was booked until Christmas, and that she’d fit my wing commission “in there, somewhere”. In other words, it wasn’t a priority to her. Let it be noted that she constantly was asking for more commissions as each month went by, while my wings remained untouched. Nearly a month after Anthrocon goes by and I asked if she had done anything with my wings. Wonder of wonders, nothing had been done at all. So, what did I do? I spent 2 hours online talking to her trying to motivate her to work on my wings and other people’s commissions. She agreed to that, and I was glad that some progress was about to be made. One more month goes by, and I ask...she tells me nothing’s been done.

In this 8 month timespan, only one wing was finished and the other one hadn’t even been started on. At this point, my patience ran thin and I had to ask for a refund. She was highly confused by this and didn’t understand why. I explained to her that I was tired of waiting for them. Poprock flips out on me and begins asking all of these questions of why I didn’t say anything. I told her that I was trying to be a nice guy, but in all honesty, I was being too lenient with her. So she tells me that she’s only going to give me 30% back of what I paid once she sells the wings to someone else. First off, how many crows are out there who have the exact same arm size as me, and want the wings? Secondly, only 30%?! I paid her to do a service and she didn’t provide the service at all!

Eventually, I found out that she’s been manipulating other furs as well. Apparently, all of the commissions she was asking people to take from her, were just excuses so she could take the money from them and run off with it. There have been multiple reports from people who commissioned her, where they’ve been waiting up to two years for a commission. Not only that, some people didn’t even get a refund or any kind of update from her. She would often get pissed at them when they asked for an update and she would even go as far as to block them from all form of contact. 14 other people have reported cases similar to mine. In addition to that, some people who actually got the commissions from her were highly disappointed. One of the suits she made at a con even fell apart. The stitching was bad and it couldn’t even hold itself up for a second.

Sorry that this is so long, but all of this had to be explained in explicit detail so I could warn others of this horrible experience I had with this builder. I really worked hard to try and be her friend, but she was just using me the entire time. On one final note, I found out from a friend that Poprock was taking about me behind my back at Otakon and she told him that I hadn’t paid for my wings in full and that I was being extremely rude to her and pressuring her for the wings. Both of these statements are completely false! So that’s my experience here. Please, PLEASE, beware of her!

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I am so upset because this crap has been going on for a little over a year and it has just not stopped.

I'll be able to attempt my side of the story once I am gone from my LAN party on Sunday/Monday. I am horrible at putting things together, but I will try.

Hmmm. Sounds like the old bait and switch here. If

poprock_grey hasn't completed the commission when they said they would, then they owe the OP a refund.

Yeah, I was always trying to be the laid back commissioner that wouldn't make some first time commissioners scared about coming up to. I guess that bit me in the ass this time.

I guess I need to make my TOS a bit stronger or something. If I don't sell the product in the end and just toss it, then is the 30% applyable?
After all this entire situation, I am less than happy to complete them because it just angers me to look at them.

They even admit they didn't have a TOS at first and the OP agreed to it AFTER the commission was started.

I was never given a clear, 100% needed deadline. He always said it would be nice, or maybe you could... but never once a 100% need by. I kept in good contact with this person.

I think it would be best if you posted screenshots of the omitted information and the harassment you got from others, and perhaps linked to your TOS. There needs be more information on what's happening here.

That said, even though a specific date was never given (though Anthrocon would count as one of these), you clearly missed the general deadlines by a long shot several times. I understand unexpected things come up, but it probably would have been best if you either made hers a priority because of the missed deadlines, or told her that there is no deadline and you'll get to it as soon as you sort out your other problems. From the commissioners POV, it would get frustrating if an artist said they were going to have it by this time but then not have it over and over again.

Not really throwing a tantrum, just unsure how to bold to show points.

I hate to say, I have little proof because I apoke with user over Steam chat, in voice chat and livestreams countless times.

You never ONCE said you needed them by a certain date 100%.

Do you deny you told them it would be done in a couple months, then april/may, then AC?

Edited 2011-08-20 19:31 (UTC)

well, good on you for coming and telling your side of the story! a lot of people don't.

I asked them many times if it was ok, and they always said ok.
I'll be able to get as many screenshots as possible. Sadly, my facebook was recently removed by facebook and I need to subpoena FB to get the information.

If you know of any other way to get a subpoena other than filing a lawsuit, them please let me know. I want to be able to defend myself since this is just too much for me.

I do not, however once the general time came, I asked them many times if it would be ok if I bumped them back. I also would say I "may" be able to complete it by them.

Then, unfortunately, you don't have a leg to stand on. With no proof of your innocence then you can't go to a court if law. If the OP has proof against you, then you are out of luck. What about the wings? Are they dine? Did you give a refund?

I initially told them I did not have a TOS and it would be set later and if they would be ok with either agreeing or not agreeing to it once it is made. They said ok.

Then I made it, and asked. They agreed.

Ok. Well, yes, OP shoulda been more upfront with you. But, sounds to me like you were stringing this guy along and taking advantage of them trying to be easy with you. Taking over twice as long on something as the original estimation does not entitle you to keep any of their money and not send them anything.

Right, but if the OP did actually agree to it after the fact, it would still be applicable. However, if there's no proof of that agreement, it's all just hearsay.

At this point, they are about 85% complete.
I told the commissioner I would complete them and send them and then they would get the refund. I also told them I would not be bumping their commission to the top, but completing them in the order they would be. Then i would send the refund once they were sold

(Was going to have a buy it now or something for the 30% so I get no additional profit off them)

But I'm not taking the commission and keeping all the money.

I am selling the commission once complete for the refund amount and send that to the commissioner once the new owner pays for it. I am only selling it for the refund amount so I don't profit from it any further.

Also, I did offer a full refund when I was able, and they preferred me to continue. It wasn't too long ago even but again, my facebook was removed so I am unable to get the information. (believe me, I've learned: ONLY EMAIL from here out!)

Look, first off if you want whatever your TOS is to mean anything, have a copy of the person agreeing to it, below the text of the exact TOS they agreed to.

Second off, it comes off as shady to have someone agree to something AFTER you've got their money.

Even if I gave them the option to agree or deny it?

I didn't say you couldn't keep ALL the money, I said ANY money. This guy has waited 8 months for his piece, and came to AC expecting it only to be let down, so now you're planning to just give a partial refund? Or are you going to give a full refund now?

Even if that's in your TOS it doesn't mean it's okay.

I think she didn't want to come off as impatient. There are some artists out there who will snap at costumers if they tell them the commission is taking too long, and she probably didn't know if you were one of those people or not. She probably didn't want to risk it.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about how to get a subpoena. Sorry.

And something I forgot to mention initially. Threatening to take the OP to court is a little uncalled for at this point. You don't have proof except your word right now, and there's always a chance to discuss this calmly and reasonably with the OP before resorting to court. Like other people have said, explain your side of the story in a calm manner, even if you don't have proof just yet. That's the best thing to do right now.

You don't see how someone could feel pressured? I mean yeah OP needs to stand up for themselves more, but it's still shady.

I have attempted to speak with them, only after they have threatened taking me to court, did I think of it. They blocked me on FB, Blocked me on FA, and I can't recall their email. I would have been more than willing to speak with them, but having forms of contact blocked makes it a bit hard.

But I always let him know it was ok, and he was a friend so i thought he would be able to tell me. Also, I did offer a full refund within the past few months, but they insisted upon the wings. I think due to this, I was a little more accepting of the "Oh it is ok" And the "It is fine" that were said.

Without a clear TOS it's tricky, but regardless of this the artist seems to have strung you along, plus the strange timings of payments makes it clear he or she was not taking the commission as professionally as it should be. Very sorry to hear you had such trouble. I'd just ask for refund minus material costs at this point.

The OP threatened to take you to court and blocked you everywhere? That's definitely something the OP didn't mention. I'd like to here the OP's response to this when he comes back.

If you offered them the full refund like you said, then why did you only offer them a partial later? Unless you where going to give them more later?

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