artists_beware | Artist/Builder Beware!!!

EXPLAIN: Ok, so what had happened here was I commissioned Poprock back in December for some crow wings. I was having a different builder make a head for me, so I thought it’d be a good idea to make a collaboration of multiple builders for a partial suit. Poprock was saying, at the time, that she was really desperate for commissions, so I thought I could help her out by hiring her. I was talking with her on Second Life about the commission I had in mind, and even modeling it after a different builders design. When I asked for a price quote, she said that it would cost me $125, which I thought was a reasonable price. Afterwards, I asked Poprock how long it would take to make them, and she said that it would only take a couple of months to do. So, from there I sent her a duct tape dummy of my arm, and an envelope containing the down payment for my wings. ($50) In about 2 weeks she began working on the wings and had a livestream video of her working on the wings. In a couple of days she sent me a picture of the progress of the wings. They looked pretty rough so I hoped that they’d look better over time, and in all honesty I was just happy that I was getting the commission made. Periodically, I would check in to see if any progress was made on the wings. At first I was asking once a week because I was really excited having this commission done. Poprock told me, whenever I asked, that no progress had been made on them since the livestream video. I started asking less often because I wanted to give her some space and not put any pressure on her.

A month passes and I ask about the progress of my wings. She again says that no progress has been made. When the next month passes, she asks on Facebook for some money so that she could buy something. Out of generosity, I gave her that money and we both agreed that it would be put towards paying off my wings. ($35) I was hoping that by paying her a little more to what I owed, that it would motivate her to work on my wings. To my disappointment, another month passes and zero progress has been made. Yet again, she asks for money for another thing (which I don’t know what it was) so I gladly obliged and paid her the remainder of the money on my wings. ($40) Of course I was hoping that some progress was made on my wings by now...she tells me that barely anything had been done. I was remaining patient as possible with her because I knew that if I said the wrong thing, she’d probably get mad at me and take even longer on making them. It’s around April 2011 this time, and I ask her if she could give me a deadline on when the wings might be finished. At first she tells me that she’ll have them done by the end of the month. As April came to a close, I asked if she was almost done, and Poprock told me that only one wing was done, but I would have to wait a bit longer. Also, to state, there were multiple times when she was guilt tripping me by explaining why the wings were taking so long, and she even offered me a full refund in May because she was feeling really upset about some stuff. Being a nice guy, I told her that I was willing to wait for the wings instead. (I fell for her guilt trip)

Eventually, she told me that the new deadline would be at Anthrocon 2011. Even as the days drew closer to Anthrocon, I still asked if any progress had been made on the wings. She dodged the question by saying they’d be done by Anthrocon. So, Anthrocon arrives and I eagerly wait to finally pick up my wings at Poprock’s booth. When I get there, she tells me that they aren’t done. She goes on to say that she has a bunch of commissions in progress, that she was booked until Christmas, and that she’d fit my wing commission “in there, somewhere”. In other words, it wasn’t a priority to her. Let it be noted that she constantly was asking for more commissions as each month went by, while my wings remained untouched. Nearly a month after Anthrocon goes by and I asked if she had done anything with my wings. Wonder of wonders, nothing had been done at all. So, what did I do? I spent 2 hours online talking to her trying to motivate her to work on my wings and other people’s commissions. She agreed to that, and I was glad that some progress was about to be made. One more month goes by, and I ask...she tells me nothing’s been done.

In this 8 month timespan, only one wing was finished and the other one hadn’t even been started on. At this point, my patience ran thin and I had to ask for a refund. She was highly confused by this and didn’t understand why. I explained to her that I was tired of waiting for them. Poprock flips out on me and begins asking all of these questions of why I didn’t say anything. I told her that I was trying to be a nice guy, but in all honesty, I was being too lenient with her. So she tells me that she’s only going to give me 30% back of what I paid once she sells the wings to someone else. First off, how many crows are out there who have the exact same arm size as me, and want the wings? Secondly, only 30%?! I paid her to do a service and she didn’t provide the service at all!

Eventually, I found out that she’s been manipulating other furs as well. Apparently, all of the commissions she was asking people to take from her, were just excuses so she could take the money from them and run off with it. There have been multiple reports from people who commissioned her, where they’ve been waiting up to two years for a commission. Not only that, some people didn’t even get a refund or any kind of update from her. She would often get pissed at them when they asked for an update and she would even go as far as to block them from all form of contact. 14 other people have reported cases similar to mine. In addition to that, some people who actually got the commissions from her were highly disappointed. One of the suits she made at a con even fell apart. The stitching was bad and it couldn’t even hold itself up for a second.

Sorry that this is so long, but all of this had to be explained in explicit detail so I could warn others of this horrible experience I had with this builder. I really worked hard to try and be her friend, but she was just using me the entire time. On one final note, I found out from a friend that Poprock was taking about me behind my back at Otakon and she told him that I hadn’t paid for my wings in full and that I was being extremely rude to her and pressuring her for the wings. Both of these statements are completely false! So that’s my experience here. Please, PLEASE, beware of her!

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oh I see. It seemed a bit vague to me how you guys decided to resolve this, I wasn't sure. I would try and get things absolutely 100% clear on how you want to go forward, either refund or finish and stick to it. It seems like it went back and fourth a bit.

This is such a mess.

I have heard that poprock has been unreliable though, but not with commissions. I know that my friend bought a pokemon plush from them on pkmncollectors back in late April and the doll hasn't made it to her house yet. Said friend has apparently asked poprock-grey about shipping updates and later on for a possible refund (I believe), but she hasn't gotten a reply :/

Anyways I hope this issue is settled.

I have asked him to contact me, or unblock me so I can contact him to no avail.

Yea, seriously, where is the OP? It's been four days since he posted this entry. I know not all people can respond to these on the very same day, but it isn't exactly wise to post entries like these and not check back. It's really not making the OP look good.

Oddly enough, he DID make one comment on this entry on the 21st: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/501381.html?thread=18137733#t18137733

Which makes me wonder why he didn't bother fixing up his entry since a mod requested, plus why he wouldn't shed further light on this situation.

With that being said, I honestly feel like in this situation, I'm leaning towards the OP's "side" in this situation rather than the artist, since like other people have pointed out, the artist has a not-so-good record over at PkmnCollectors.

However, I do agree with the sentiment that both parties in this situation have some fault, and I really would like more details about this whole thing :\

I'm just coming out of lurkdom for a bit, but while I was reading all this, I noticed the OP replying ONCE here (on the 1st page, if you scroll and catch it in the mountain of replies):

http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/501381.html?thread=18137733#t18137733

The date says they replied on the 21st, which would be yesterday (unless my date and time are ahead or something). So... They have the time to reply like that, but not bother... listening to the Mod's request of cutting the entry, and trying to resolve this?

*goes back to being a quiet observer*

Ahh... and, right as I post, someone beat me to it. ^^;

Hahaha <3

The funny thing is that I'm typically a lurker too and commented just to point that out.

Huh, must have missed that somehow. :/

Agreed, both sides are at fault here. The artist should have taken the commission more seriously and the commissioner should have put his foot down. But yea, the if the artist does have a bad record with this, the OP probably has the better case.

Yea, guess I missed that one. The number of replies keep getting bigger and bigger; it's hard to keep track of them all.

I don't-- I don't even personally know the OP, and I heard about his situation from a friend we both share. I've been bugging said friend to get Aves back in here to clear things up (and to fix his post, yeesh), but apparently that hasn't happened. :/

Our mutual friend also says he doesn't know who these "fourteen people" are either, but that ~*Aves never ever lies*~ so he should totally be legit or something... I don't even know. :/ Frankly I'm starting to question how much credit should be given to him at all since he seems to be dodging the questiosn and the like.

I do wanna say though, after seeing what a mess this whole thing became, I do feel I should apologize to you as I was the one who initially suggested that Aves post over here. I'm really sorry to add to your stress, honestly. :(

Also, I really want to apologize for my rude comment to you here (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/501381.html?thread=18132613#t18132613) as I'd rather underestimated the harrassment you'd been getting from that other maker. I definitely understand now the amount of pressure you're under, especially since I see now that it's doubly frustrating he'd post you here and not give you any other means to contact him.

I really hope things get resolved, this whole thing is a mess. :/

Note, while poprock did offer to finish them, last I understood poprock would give the OP no deadline other than "I'll try to work them in before xmas"
Which I can see why OP wouldn't be happy with that.

To be fair, I did make posts asking people to contact me so I could either issues a refund or something to make things better. I heard from only 3 people, refunded one, resent a personal collection piece and someone emailed me, talked a bit then I gave them the option and they stopped responding. :/

Well that's unfortunate. My friend says she tried e-mail you and noting you on LJ but there was no response about this :/

Either way I'm pushing her to contact you again to get this settled.

Please do, I don't like leaving people with bad feelings.

The OP also responded to poprocks rant with new links and screenshots, so you might want to check that out as well. Not that it may (or may not) change your opinion, it may just give you a better idea of what is going on currently.

Err. Not to her rant, but the posts describing her side of the story. Sorry about that.

This is the comment I agree with the most. If the OP isn't using the platform available here to resolve the situation, and isn't reopening any other lines of communication, it reflects very poorly on him. Doubly so with the hearsay he's relying upon to make his case.

Also, a respectful bit of feedback for the mods: You are very kind to allow such a lengthy entry to go forward before requiring it be cleaned up & lj-cutted. It would appear to me that the OP is abusing this kindness. :)

I will admit that I agree with him abusing said kindness, especially since the OP has already arrived in the entry to make one rebuttal and has not touched a single letter in his post.

Really... good luck to him.

Oh he's been in the post already. Once. To reply to Poprock once with some additional screenshots, completely ignoring the multiple requests to clean up his post.

Would have been nice if you had put this long-ass thing under a cut. Just saying.

Seriously?

Because the artist kept in communication (even the OP's piecemeal evidence demonstrates this), I feel that the blame lay more on the OP who could have been more honest. This does not remove blame entirely from the artist of course, but the root of the problem is communication. Because the artist mentioned a full-refund 4 months in and the commissioner said to continue and gave no indication as to having a problem I don't feel that the artist is entirely unreasonable. While missing deadlines is unprofessional, there was certainly contact throughout the process, and the OP was aware of where progress stood. The artist is also relatively new and part-time--this is not to say all bad behavior is excusable but it's a lot more acceptable then say, from a full-time, professional maker. I also don't think a few extra months is unreasonable for a project of that scale--I personally think the artist bit off more than they could chew and didn't have the experience to know when to quit and refund.

Honestly, I'm bothered both by the hear-say in the OP's post and the fact that there is no evidence that they told PoprockGrey that they were unhappy at all until the demand of a refund. I also think that what the OP describes in how he kept in contact could easily be construed as stressful from the other side, especially in combination with the apparent harassment that was going on from third parties. If what the OP says about the 14 people is true I would like names/screen shots/etc

I do think if the OP had been up-front about his feelings then things may not have worked out poorly. It's a real shame that the OP felt the need to post here before working it out with artist. Since there's not a response after the last piece of evidence, it looks like the OP was unwilling to work with the artist.

I see nothing here that indicates that this is any more than a miscommunication. The slander (and yes, until proven otherwise, that's what the hear-say in the original post is) and also the misrepresentation is not ok. I'm hoping that this sentence from the original post:

"So she tells me that she’s only going to give me 30% back of what I paid once she sells the wings to someone else."

Is him misunderstanding what was said because I strongly feel that's a misrepresentation of what is posted in this screenshot
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at103718PM.png
And yet seems to be the sentence many of the commenters here are caught up on when commenting to the artist.

I don't believe that 30% outright is unreasonable IF it is also sent with the materials that were bought for the commission, the WIP, etc. That also wasn't the only option offered, the others are all three fairly reasonable and options that have OFTEN been suggested on A_B before. Because the commissioner was the one to cancel AFTER having been offered a full refund before, I don't think they are entitled to 100% of the money back, I can't imagine putting hours of work into such an endeavor and getting nothing back.

EDIT: to make it easier to read

Edited 2011-08-24 21:06 (UTC)

Sorry. Feeling a little sensitive right now.

This is probably the best summary of this issue I've seen.

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