http://cerari.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] cerari.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] artists_beware2010-04-23 02:25 pm

FA Artist heads up

First time posting here, but after stumbling onto this user's journal I thought a heads up to this community might not be a bad idea.

User is JinDragonWolf (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/jindragowolf/) - they posted a journal about how they may cancel their current commissions since they have been taking so long and "not feeling up to them", and then start over with higher prices to get a Wacom. Oh, and they can't afford to give refunds at this time either.

Journal : http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1357331/

Screencap of the journal under the cut :





If I made any errors in posting this, please let me know! I checked the community info and don't think I broke any rules...

[identity profile] meleeisgood.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 06:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess it's better than stringing people along, but still, telling people straight out that they aren't offering even a partial refund for the people who've paid them for a commission? Not cool, dude, not cool. Bet they're going to have some pissed off people on their hands soon.

And looking at the comments on the journal, yeah, they've already pissed some people off. Way to go.

[identity profile] bigbluefox.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 06:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Wait...

... did she really cancel all the commissions, tell people they won't get their money back because she needs to buy stuff, and then asks for new, more pricy commissions in one post? O.o

This is pretty.... interesting.

[identity profile] zackfig.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 06:53 pm (UTC)(link)
That's quite some chutzpah actually!

[identity profile] kurenaipaladin.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Am I the only one here that saw the word "yet", as in they will be refunding? /shrug

[identity profile] sigilgoat.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Be sure to post a trouble ticket to admins about this!

[identity profile] pandemic-panic.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:05 pm (UTC)(link)
No, I saw it too. The post seemed to imply that they wanted to square things away, but weren't able to yet. However, I think this would have gone over better if they had just privately messaged each of the people who commissioned them and explained things, rather than just post a nonchalant journal.

[identity profile] muzz.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:05 pm (UTC)(link)
The guy doesn't intend on NOT giving money back, he says he can't refund 'yet' at this time. I don't see a problem with this :0

[identity profile] underthebed.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:06 pm (UTC)(link)
This is utterly disgraceful. "Yet?" So what, a month from now they'll refund the money? Two? Longer?

When you take someone's money to do art you owe that person honesty and should you be unable to compete the work you were hired for, you need to refund that $ immediately. You do NOT need to use that and other money to buy something for yourself. Complete bullocks.

I am embarrassed on behalf of freelance artists.

[identity profile] kurenaipaladin.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah. This.

[identity profile] spiffystuff.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:18 pm (UTC)(link)
XD well at the least it's pretty tactless/bad advertising to basically say "well I can't finish my old commissions, and I'll get around to refunding you some time, hey who wants a more expensive commission?" XD

It's basically like asking "hey, can I hold some money for you?"

[identity profile] blackberrypie.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:22 pm (UTC)(link)
You know I can understand wanting a new tablet and not having any money and wanting to take commissions to be able to get one.. But for goodness sakes.. At least if you're gonna cancel commissions, take the new ones and pay back the ones you canceled FIRST before you buy yourself a new shiny toy. That or just buckle down and complete the others before taking new ones and THEN get your tablet. Ugh I hate people that do stuff like this.

But yeah that's just my opinion.

[identity profile] torinir2.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:23 pm (UTC)(link)
This. Completely.

[identity profile] fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:28 pm (UTC)(link)
I suspect one of two things would happen here:
1. Money from new commissions pays for refunds for old ones
2. Old ones are ignored and new commissions pay for new tablet

Version one he effectively got a loan from the commissions without presenting it as such.

Both are versions of fraud.

[identity profile] actonrf.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)
" At least if you're gonna cancel commissions, take the new ones and pay back the ones you canceled FIRST before you buy yourself a new shiny toy."

To pay those by taking in new income is called a ponzi scam.

[identity profile] blackberrypie.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)
It is, but it is slightly, just slightly, more redeeming then what they are doing now. But yeah, you're right a scam regardless.

[identity profile] kurenaipaladin.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Wait, how is it a scam? if new people get their art and old ppl get their money... :/

[identity profile] hamburger.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:43 pm (UTC)(link)
It's my policy not to actually spend the money I get from commissions until the commission itself is finished.

I realize that not everyone has that luxury, I don't live on commissions, but when you get down to the cold, hard truth of it all? The fact that you run out of money to refund is not the buyer's problem. They completed their end of the bargain. Now, it's polite for them to give you some time to collect money to refund them, but they're not obligated to be polite. Especially when you can't even give a window in which they can expect to refunded.

I hate to say it, but in the furry community artists get MUCH more slack than they really should sometimes.

[identity profile] blackberrypie.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Because you're forcing someone into a loan. You are saying you can't have your art or your money till whenever I feel like paying you back, but if you want you can spend more than you already did to possibly get some art. That they very well might do the same thing on. It's shady, really shady.

[identity profile] torinir2.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Seems that he deleted his journal. Let's see if he tries to do it again. o_O

[identity profile] kurenaipaladin.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:47 pm (UTC)(link)
No, I mean.

Person A cancels commission on person b, for whatever reason, but takes a second commission for person C. Person A cannot pay back person b with available funds, so pays person b back with the funds from person c's commission, and does indeed complete the commission.

IDK...

[identity profile] spiffystuff.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, yes. It's one thing if an artist cancels and refunds commissions because they /can't/ do them anymore. Quite another if they just want to raise their prices for the exact same thing :/

[identity profile] blackberrypie.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:49 pm (UTC)(link)
They should refund what is outstanding FIRST. Priorities! Unless its okay with the commissioners they are canceling, they should be their first concern.

[identity profile] kurenaipaladin.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:52 pm (UTC)(link)
"I hate to say it, but in the furry community artists get MUCH more slack than they really should sometimes."

They also often work for less than minimum wage. You get what you pay for. Not to say that excuses some of the antics... after all you set your own prices, but it's like the difference between getting McDonald's and going to a fancy resturant. If these people were to pay actual industry prices then I'm sure there would be far less of these issues, because teh people that produce the art would be professionals- literally- and would be able to be taken to small claims if they DIDN'T produce the work they wished. But if you're out 25 bucks, then it's kind of like "oh well better luck next time".

[identity profile] kurenaipaladin.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
What I am saying, though, is if you do not have the money to pay someone back with and have to take a new commission to do it, who the hell gives a flying fuck so long as both parties get what they deserve, ie refund and art. :/

[identity profile] hamburger.livejournal.com 2010-04-23 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Eh, when I say slack I'm not even saying in comparison to a pro artist.

Artists, especially popular ones, are put on a bit of a pedestal in the furry community. People will continiously forgive them for things they really shouldn't. We have so many cases on this community of people waiting patiently years for simple art, for example.

Page 1 of 4