(no subject)

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

WHO:  Kee/Kyme/Inarolyn/Iaz/Janks/Len/Neicom


WHERE:  http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kee (all the above are also FA accounts that she has hopped between, but Kee is her current).

WHAT: Tracing. Most of the traces are partial and have been "frankensteined".


WHEN: This has been going on for awhile from what I have been able to figure.

EXPLAIN: Again, I was asked to post this here by several people after compiling multiple instances of her tracing of recent. A lot of people felt a public warning should be made, since she jumps accounts quite frequently. She's also traced several times in the past, but I haven't been able to locate the originals.


As an example, this is art from five-six months ago that she drew while living with me:
http://i44.tinypic.com/jzodv.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/jgo415.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/jt5hj5.png
She's never traced while living with me because I had gotten onto her in the past for copying other artists.


These are the traces I've found evidence of:
First example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820740/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820732/    [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6595400/ [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i44.tinypic.com/s1kksm.jpg    [NSFW]



Second example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6894553/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6577848/    [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/25r1sh1.png   [NSFW]



Third example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898927
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6703170/
Overlay:
http://i39.tinypic.com/otfbcw.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/34r617b.jpg




Fourth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898413
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6057168/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/fljxvr.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/14m5abk.jpg



Fifth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898388
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6789179/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ppzyx4.jpg



Sixth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6807846/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5060030/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/yyp01.jpg

Edit:
Got shown these ones last night:
Seventh example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898399   [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://i42.tinypic.com/aekvg5.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ohis69.jpg   [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a7v9c4.png    [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/wsw93q.png    [NSFW]

Eighth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6811551/
Traced from:
http://i40.tinypic.com/zupcli.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i44.tinypic.com/350nrxh.jpg     [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/1042nn6.jpg    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/kdx5b8.jpg   [NSFW]




Almost all the traces have been of artists whom she's watching, the only exception being my own art.


Suspected traces:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6852690/       [NSFW]
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898425/    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/xdruq0.jpg (from 2010)       [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/14kifzn.jpg (from 2010)     [NSFW]

There were a few others that were TCBY commissions that I am certain were traced, but I never saved the files.



As is evidenced, her anatomy flipflops from really well done, to filled with errors. If anyone can provide originals for some of the suspected traces, it'd be appreciated as well. NO ONE improves that greatly in a five month period, drawing as rarely as she does. I don't think everything she uploads/draws is traced, but much of it is.

Edit: Here's some more overlays with varying opacity's to give a clearer idea of where the lines are a perfect match.
http://i44.tinypic.com/206fmvt.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2s9alas.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2gw7v3o.jpg  [nsfw]
http://i43.tinypic.com/1j9nit.jpg   [nsfw]

Edit2:
I'm redacting my allegations of tracing, as I really don't want to be involved in any drama with this person to start with.


Edit3: I'm sorry, to make it more clear, I am retracting my allegations as there isn't sufficient evidence of tracing going on. I have posted apologies here and on FA.



Fixed overlays with proper aspect ratio:
http://i44.tinypic.com/rhj09f.jpg

Here it is in 3 different colors, still matching in the same areas. (I rotated it quickly, so it's not the exact same as the other overlays, but I'm too tired to redo all this again just to be perfect for the naysayers).
http://i39.tinypic.com/r0vw4h.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/de6ycw.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/mil4kh.jpg



http://i40.tinypic.com/nvnzx4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/15i9g8j.png

There is no WAY any of the above have been distorted, as I did use the shift key as I was told.

Comments

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

And allow me to add to mine. It is sufficient to state your own opinion; Please do not post the names and opinions of others who have not expressed those opinions openly in this community. Screening again.

[joanmichele.livejournal.com]

Indeed. However, I am not arguing for an ad populum argument, I am just saying that to show that Acorn isn't being biased or coloured in this accusation.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I was asked to by a few people. I had only noticed two that I suspected as traces, by an hour I had a list, a few days later I had people linking me to more and was being told that I should post here.

[ocelotish]

Who drew it doesn't matter. Unless you're saying other artists saw similarities and again, you see similarities without it being a rip off.

...I was talking about two photos. ...They can't be traced.

Only 10% of works that uses elements traced from other images ever gets caught.

I'd like to see this statistic please, especially concerning whether it's done it legally or not and how you could possibly know what percentage doesn't get caught.

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[ocelotish]

D'OH! I misread! I'm sorry!

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

Wow, this got really ugly. Part of me wants to feel sorry for 0acorn0, but another part makes me think she kinda brought this upon herself.

[joanmichele.livejournal.com]

I am sure you would do the same if your friends were in Acorn's shoes.

[joanmichele.livejournal.com]

Are you TRYING to censor me? Because you could have simply asked em to edit the comment if namedropping is problematic. I can very well ask the person I mentioned to drop in and opine on the situation if it matters so damned much.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I'm not sure. It's been proven in past posts that I'm not the best when discerning if something is traced or not, but someone mentioned earlier in this post that key features such as eyes, faces, ears, and other major body parts are better evidence and more likely to be traced. Waists aren't a complicated body part, at least to me. They just connect the ribcage to the pelvis are pretty easy to draw believably, even if you're not using references. You'd really have to go out of your way to screw them up. It wouldn't be worth the effort to go out and trace an image of a waist when you can easily draw a credible version yourself. Of course, Kee could be tracing them for some reason and then we would all learn something.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I personally wouldn't as I trust my friends to take care of themselves.

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[squirrelly-kaku.livejournal.com]

I hate to really bring this up, but Acorn, you yourself said in your first journal calling one trace out (which you deleted) that you believed the reason the artist was doing it in the first place was to get back at you/cause you pain/hurt you. That's why I in particular felt you were letting your bias cloud your judgement. You made this more personal than it needed to be.

Your circumstantial evidence is the equivalent of a couple lines of a partial fingerprint. Sure, some of them are going to line up, but it's not enough to bring a solid conviction. You need more damning evidence than what you've presented to convince many of us in this community.

The poses are generic and similar in style. It's not that hard to line up one or two lines and say they match, especially when they are sketchy and are so bold that the chances of the lines matching up are higher.

You're free to believe what you want to believe, but many of us have made up our mind. I personally do not believe there is enough evidence because I could literally take any similar posed picture from any artist, and force a line or two to line up. The humanoid body can only be manipulated into so many figures.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

How would you even find out that statistic anyway? I doubt people would admit that they trace for the sake of a survey.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

Alright, well I suppose all I can do is keep an eye out for it just in case.


To mods, should I just edit this post itself as an up to date list if/when it does happen, or wait till I've compiled several new instances and write an entirely new post?

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[ocelotish]

I'm sure various people have their own reasons as to why they trace a pair of legs or arms or a head but draw the rest of the image, I don't see why a torso would be treated differently.

It's different because it is easy. There are no knobby joints, there is little structure showing that cannot be ignored and have a relatively successful piece, in most of these examples there is no perspective, it is easiest to get the torso in proportion as it has major landmarks at the space of one head. There is comparatively little style to these torsos. In comparison, the head and hands are difficult for even skilled artists to handle (why do you think they're the most abstracted in cartoons?)

Again, you're bringing up my past as if it has relevancy to this post when it does not. (If you're going to lambast me over it, at least don't pretend as if your intentions are genuine.)I've said it before, and will say it again, I was asked to pursue posting here by other people who felt it was necessary. I didn't want to make it public until I had more solid evidence or more instances of partial traces.

No, I was bring up how you've behaved in this post and your FA journal. Without knowing your past (I still don't), nor do I care, you have taken every disagreement, no matter how civilly personally, you've badmouthed the community, and have whined incessantly. That's not how you (gen) behaves when you don't have a dog in the fight. You have taken everything in this post personally whether or not there is any mention to your "past."

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

I screened it immediately because dropping someone's real name randomly into a post is something that needs prompt action. I was not going to wait for you to correct it.

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

Thus why I asked what would be more substantial. How many more instances of lines matching perfectly would I need for this to be considered valid? I don't think she's stupid enough to trace an entire drawing head to toe, and a trace is a trace, regardless of how partial it is.

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[ocelotish]

I am curious when circumstantial evidence is admissible. In a court of law, it doesn't take much to get a conviction. While I'm not saying that this IS a court, I am still curious of how many lines must match before it's looked at seriously.

It's actually really hard to get a conviction, especially in criminal court if it's run correctly. It would have to be beyond a reasonable doubt, which it's not, or if we're going by copyright law, it has to be clear to an outside observer what the piece is based on to be non-derivative work, which I'm personally not convinced of either.

As for how many lines - I gave you an idea of what makes something definitively traced in a picture elsewhere. You have about a third of what I'd look at, if that.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

That would really depend on how much time passes before you get the sufficient evidence.

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

Okie dokie then. As I said, all I can do is keep an eye out.

I do hope that she takes this as a warning to not trace or heavily reference others art so much in the future.

[ocelotish]

You haven't proven that other people came to this conclusion independently, but I haven't claimed that she's doing this as a grudge (or if I have it's been extremely recently). However, that doesn't mean there's no bias. Bias can exist in many people, as you can see any time a popular artist posts something.

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Curious, did you tell Kee about this post?

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[squirrelly-kaku.livejournal.com]

It really depends on the picture, but if I had to say something definitive that would personally sway me more would be if equal areas of the trace lined up. Like if both sides of the torso lined up perfectly. To me, a small line on the hip and then one on the shoulder isn't quite enough to convince me. Especially if the distance is far enough.

As I said before though, the human figure can only be bent so far before looking broken. Having a good understanding of anatomy is going to make many lines add up without any tracing or referencing involved.


From my point of view from this particular situation, at best, it's a coincidence. At worst, I'd lean more towards reference than a direct trace.

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I have no way of contacting her. Which is why I couldn't tell her that I wasn't okay with the suspected trace off of Lydia or confront her about it.

Re: My Personal Breakdown of the New Overlays

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I'll keep it in mind, thank you for the advice.

[ocelotish]

I'll ditto this. I might take them aside say "You're coming across as _______," or even post something along the lines of "Made them sign off for the night to cool down," but no way in heck I'd defend them in here when they've started this whole thing themselves.