(no subject)

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

WHO:  Kee/Kyme/Inarolyn/Iaz/Janks/Len/Neicom


WHERE:  http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kee (all the above are also FA accounts that she has hopped between, but Kee is her current).

WHAT: Tracing. Most of the traces are partial and have been "frankensteined".


WHEN: This has been going on for awhile from what I have been able to figure.

EXPLAIN: Again, I was asked to post this here by several people after compiling multiple instances of her tracing of recent. A lot of people felt a public warning should be made, since she jumps accounts quite frequently. She's also traced several times in the past, but I haven't been able to locate the originals.


As an example, this is art from five-six months ago that she drew while living with me:
http://i44.tinypic.com/jzodv.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/jgo415.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/jt5hj5.png
She's never traced while living with me because I had gotten onto her in the past for copying other artists.


These are the traces I've found evidence of:
First example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820740/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820732/    [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6595400/ [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i44.tinypic.com/s1kksm.jpg    [NSFW]



Second example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6894553/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6577848/    [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/25r1sh1.png   [NSFW]



Third example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898927
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6703170/
Overlay:
http://i39.tinypic.com/otfbcw.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/34r617b.jpg




Fourth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898413
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6057168/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/fljxvr.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/14m5abk.jpg



Fifth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898388
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6789179/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ppzyx4.jpg



Sixth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6807846/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5060030/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/yyp01.jpg

Edit:
Got shown these ones last night:
Seventh example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898399   [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://i42.tinypic.com/aekvg5.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ohis69.jpg   [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a7v9c4.png    [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/wsw93q.png    [NSFW]

Eighth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6811551/
Traced from:
http://i40.tinypic.com/zupcli.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i44.tinypic.com/350nrxh.jpg     [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/1042nn6.jpg    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/kdx5b8.jpg   [NSFW]




Almost all the traces have been of artists whom she's watching, the only exception being my own art.


Suspected traces:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6852690/       [NSFW]
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898425/    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/xdruq0.jpg (from 2010)       [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/14kifzn.jpg (from 2010)     [NSFW]

There were a few others that were TCBY commissions that I am certain were traced, but I never saved the files.



As is evidenced, her anatomy flipflops from really well done, to filled with errors. If anyone can provide originals for some of the suspected traces, it'd be appreciated as well. NO ONE improves that greatly in a five month period, drawing as rarely as she does. I don't think everything she uploads/draws is traced, but much of it is.

Edit: Here's some more overlays with varying opacity's to give a clearer idea of where the lines are a perfect match.
http://i44.tinypic.com/206fmvt.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2s9alas.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2gw7v3o.jpg  [nsfw]
http://i43.tinypic.com/1j9nit.jpg   [nsfw]

Edit2:
I'm redacting my allegations of tracing, as I really don't want to be involved in any drama with this person to start with.


Edit3: I'm sorry, to make it more clear, I am retracting my allegations as there isn't sufficient evidence of tracing going on. I have posted apologies here and on FA.



Fixed overlays with proper aspect ratio:
http://i44.tinypic.com/rhj09f.jpg

Here it is in 3 different colors, still matching in the same areas. (I rotated it quickly, so it's not the exact same as the other overlays, but I'm too tired to redo all this again just to be perfect for the naysayers).
http://i39.tinypic.com/r0vw4h.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/de6ycw.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/mil4kh.jpg



http://i40.tinypic.com/nvnzx4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/15i9g8j.png

There is no WAY any of the above have been distorted, as I did use the shift key as I was told.

Comments

Mod post

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Since this is rather long due to the spacing, I'd like to ask that you insert an LJ cut.

Re: Mod post

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I don't know how to do that, can you tell me how?

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

Can you put NSFW warnings on your evidence please?

I gotta admit... one back line is kind of a stretch. Some of the other examples I can kinda buy but idk. I guess I'm a little skeptical of "they traced a back line" or "they traced a buttcheek."

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

Sorry about that, I've been sick and didn't even think about it.

As for the way she traces, a lot of it is known as "frankensteining", trace parts of the image, rotate it, trace another part, trace the torso and then draw your own limbs, etc etc.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

I would screenshot her drawings and post those instead since she's most likely going to delete them soon.

Also, http://i40.tinypic.com/m75czn.jpg has been deleted from tinypic.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

You also should put NSFW on the suspected traces.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

Holy cow. Is this Tracing Awareness Month? So many people are getting caught recently, it's just... shocking.

[cesarin.livejournal.com]

probably because most furs thinks tracing (like many then popufurs did) is a easy and instant ticket to success.

[morti-macabre.livejournal.com]

Looks pretty solid from the overlays. I'm interested to hear the other side.

[ocelotish]

This whole thing feels a little stretched to me in most cases. In a few I'm not sure I even see the "traced" lines.

I'm sorry, I'm not wholly convinced this is tracing. As far as I can tell it could be referential (how does this person handle a post like this?), but I'm not buying that it's traced, or if it is that it's enough to even be copyright infringement.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying anything about copyright infringement, I just think people should be warned that they are buying mostly traced art. In many of the cases, the lines match perfectly (the ones off mine, the shoulder and ribcage off one of Dipper's, the back and stomach off another of Dipper's, the back and stomach off Shopenhauer's). I can provide more overlays to show differing opacity's and how perfectly they line up if necessary.

[enter-data-here.livejournal.com]

I don't really see 1 and 2, but 5-8 are really clear and obvious from my standpoint. 3 and 4 I can see what you see, but other are definitely gonna say you're stretching too much there.

I understand the "frankensteining" and how frustrating it is because it's not ever going to be perfectly clear how much, if any, is actually traced - plus when people think "trace" they think full, and don't realize that partial traces are just as common if no more so. I think her gallery is a little inconsistent too especially with proportions and her ability to draw the form... some of her stuff is so perfectly drawn but other stuff looks like old work or something.

From what you and some others have posted previously about her personality I guess it's not a stretch to think that she's doing this. I hope more definitive proof can be had so you don't get accused of letting your feelings against her blind you or something.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I actually didn't want to post here initially because I was concerned that people would attack me, assuming that this was some personal vendetta. I was asked to do so by several people whom I showed the overlays to.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I don't see any tracing from this at all, honestly. The most I could see is maybe being inspired by the form and then drawing her own.

It's perfectly possible to grow in skill without posting art all the time (if she doesn't live with you anymore, how do you know she's not doodling in her spare time or studying anatomy on her own?), I feel like I've done this myself.

It seems a little grudgy, especially since most of the art she drew seems on par with the art you posted saying that she didn't copy/trace it.

It also doesn't seem to make much sense, to make major anatomy mistakes when she could just trace the artist's lesser mistakes instead. :P

(frozen)

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I'm honestly confused as to how no one can see the line for line matches and perfect hip to hip and stomach to back ratios going on between these images. (I also find it ironic how people jumped all over Dipper for tracing the eyes of another artist's work, but think that this is perfectly acceptable?)

I do know her and her habits, she spends 10 hours a day on WoW most times (ask anyone else who's lived with her, they can verify she'd rather play games than work). She has a terrible work ethic and hardly draws in her spare time.

As for them being on par, no they aren't. Though I know some people have trouble differentiating huge style and anatomy jumps, so I don't hold that against you in any way.

Most people who trace from other artists, don't realize they are actually tracing the other artists mistakes as well. It's a common mistake, and it's the reason it was so easy to find all of these. It only took me an hour to find most of them, the last two were provided to me.

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

I also think you may be jumping the gun on a couple of them, but just as many are extremely suspicious and make it clear that this isn't just a coincidence, especially considering that all the other artists in the overlays are people she watches.

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

actually, having more time to think on it and seeing what other people have been saying... yeah, actually, this doesn't really make sense. :/ there are a few I'm still iffy on (mostly the last two) but honestly the majority do seem too minor and over-reaching and the choices that were made in the "traces" don't really match up with typical tracer behavior... Why would they only do (mostly) the waist and butts rather than more difficult things like the hands or the head? idk. it just seems off.

[starinthegutter.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but no.

Most of the examples (I got bored after 5) are all in the hips- not direct tracing, maybe referencing.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

If they were just referencing, the hip to hip and stomach to back ratios would not be identical. (I feel like I'm going to have to say this a million times over).

There's a distinct difference in tracing and referencing. They are traces, but they are partial traces, not complete.

[jakejynx.livejournal.com]

I think you're over-reaching. I'm just not seeing a lot of this. I mean, it's easy to see a pose and find a similar pose done by another artist, overlay them, and find these tiny areas where they just happen to match up. Okay, so a one-inch, nearly straight line matches up. So what? 90%+ of the drawing doesn't. Even in instances where referencing is done, you're bound to have certain lines that match exactly. And you don't even know that those particular images are the ones that were referenced or traced. They're so generic, and so far from exact matches, you could pick other similar images out of a hat and probably find the same sort of matches.

Also, your attitude towards others in some of your responses isn't exactly lending credence to your claims. It's making it seem even more grudge-y, that you're getting so bent out of shape towards those who offer dissent.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I'm not getting bent out of shape in any way, I apologize if it comes off that way. I'm sick and have a bit of a headache, so I'm probably coming off a lot more dickish than intended.

Like I said above, if it was a coincidence, the ratios wouldn't match perfectly, and it is up to each person to decide what they consider to be "the line" in terms of these things.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I'm missing something but this looks pretty weak to me. It looks like you're saying she traced a curve here, another there, but rarely even both sides of whatever bodypart we're talking about, muchless a whole leg.

[squirrelly-kaku.livejournal.com]

Like I said before when you posted on your fa journal the one you claimed was traced from you, I think you're over-reaching due to a bias you have against this person. Those lines barely line up to each other, and no less, these are extremely generic poses. As others have provided examples of exactly what you're doing to these overlays, you're seeing what we're seeing when it's suddenly focused on your art.

You might want to just take a breather for a bit. Your history with this person just might be clouding your judgement.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

If you didn't want to post this to our community, you didn't have to. You always had that right. Even when it was in our queue, you still could have messaged a mod to say 'disregard my post, I'd rather not go public at this time'. Even if people were strongly suggesting you come out with this, you could have said 'not yet I'd like to get more concrete proof'.

The excuse of 'I didn't want to post this to A_B, BUT' is weak and shaky at best. I won't even touch your excuses of your illnesses and mood because those too are signs of a very weak excuse.

Its also very insulting that while people here are attempting to have a civil discussion with you about the validity of these overlays and the accusation of tracing - which is yes very damn serious and therefore deserves this discussion - you are behaving over on FA as if this community is a den of harpies only out to make you look foolish. Twisting the words of the members here to fit your own perspective is awful. And retracting your accusations isn't going to erase the fact you did it!

But you could have handled this whole thing with so much more grace.

And then you mentioned a particular name in here, which changes your post into revealing a shade or two of its true colors... that truly disappoints me.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I don't see the match up, and find this post to be incredibly grudgey, considering the journals made and the Dipper mentions repeatedly. I don't see a dead on trace, but perhaps similar references to the same anatomy structure. Its a very generic pretty-body type, and there's only so many bumps and and curves on a humanoid figure - stylized or no.

I simply do not see this as obvious tracework.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

This has to be the worst attempt to smear someone for tracing I've seen. The other posts were at least somewhat legitimate and done for reasons other than spite. I can almost read loud and clear the grudge dripping from the post where you mention you use to live with this artist, and that you're upset your friend got ripped apart on this community for actually admitting to tracing.
I think the only real crime here is that a lot of artists draw such strikingly similar art and poses over and over again, that its fairly easy to throw it into photoshop and find at least <20% of lines match up. It's what furries buy and what artists are encouraged to converge on thus the likelihood of at least some lines matching up is pretty high. Though I think it is less to do with everyone "partially tracing" and more to do with the fact that the art generated from the fandom tends to look a certain way.
It's clear that you wrote this article to be spiteful, and you are trying to claim the community is at fault for not completely agreeing with your position, and that's something to leave me thinking is a warning about you as much as the artist posting.

[haricotvert.livejournal.com]

I could see a single back or hip matching up, but the whole waist as in stomach and back and hips (that first example especially, even the space between the thighs is the same)? I guess I have a hard time believing that so many artists would match each other to the line.

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

I gotta ask, mods. When a post like this comes up where it was accepted, but facts later emerge to pretty much dismiss the claims in the post or paint the OP in a bad light, what happens? Does the beware tag get removed and replaced with a "claim dismissed" tag or what?

I mean obviously deletion is out of the question, but I'd hate to think some innocent artist gets a bad rap by someone with an agenda.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

There have been instances where a beware was made that turns out to be a beware against the OP and the tags got changed but those cases have been more cut and dry than this. Since Acorn has retracted her tracing claim i'm thinking a resolved tag but as for any further action it's hard to say.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

If it is traced, I'm not sure why they'd trace one butt cheek or just a knee... Because I've seen Frankensteining, oh boy have I ever, and it's usually at least a whole limb.

I'm curious as to what Kee has to say.

[lemon-dip.livejournal.com]

*exhales*
I really wish my name or anything wasn't brought into this mess.
I know you mean well and everything, but I really do not want to be sucked into anymore drama here. At all.

I know your intentions aren't malicious but when you did mention that, I will admit it does sound spiteful. It was a bad move that harms both of us.


Apologize if I sound stupid.. Fighting off a nasty cold atm. /hacksuplung

[ducttapeninja.livejournal.com]

Honestly, what's done is done-- The drama regarding you here is pretty much over, from what I could see. Acorn dragging your name back into this stuff just makes her look bad. I don't really see how it would make you look worse, considering you've already apologized for your situation and (to my knowledge) have been working on that. :3 Try not to worry about it too much.

On a slightly off-topic note, I hope your cold gets better!

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I'm going to approach this differently. While some of the images are shaky, some of them do have a line copied or two. However, given your history with this user are you sure she isn't doing this simply to get under your skin? In which case, she is winning.

[haricotvert.livejournal.com]

A trace is a trace is a trace, regardless if it's just a body part or a full figure. Is it more damning to trace a full figure than just a waist or hips or an arm, etc? And how is that fair if that's true? Tracing a waist is still tracing. Why is this even being argued?

If another artist can be convicted of tracing eyes, why can't another artist be convicted of tracing waists or "frankensteining"?

I just don't get it, when the evidence is right there.

And in case anyone asks, I'm not white-knighting. I'm pissed about this for a couple reasons. It's not fair to the rest of us who work hard and practice anatomy and really learn to draw this stuff ourselves, when other artists are just poaching lines off another instead of learning it properly too. And tracing is NOT a learning tool, it is a crutch. Take a few life drawing classes (I know some schools hold open ones on the weekends), reference your friends or photos, practice, that's how you learn anatomy. Not by stealing someone else's waist.

/soapbox

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

I think you are missing the point.

I'm sure as you've been learning anatomy that you're realizing that proportions are relatively standard in bodies, and that some angles of positioning the body look better than others. Even in very stylized drawings, the bodies tend to be places with the least stylization--IE the places most likely to match up at random. In the comments people took the work of the OP herself and showed how ti could match up to pictures she may have never seen before, in some cases with several matching lines.

People aren't disagreeing because "it's just a LITTLE tracing" people are explaining that the evidence is lacking. Real, undeniable evidence would include limbs, hands, feet or facial features. Why? Because not only are these the most difficult areas to draw, they also tend to be very stylized and differ artist to artist. Notice that in every other tracing post, THESE were the places they got caught on? I'd be willing to be you can take mine or anyone elses art and find examples on par with the ones in this post by finding similar body types in similar poses. Of all areas, hips and waist make the least sense to trace, I'm sure in your anatomical studies you've probably noticed they're easy too.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

[dreamerdragoon.livejournal.com]

Ehh. I see very enthusiastic attempts to line up generic curve lines with a different image via rotating and scaling, but hardly anything that makes me suspicious of actual tracing or even eyeballing.

And anyone who knows me will tell you I'm exceptionally vocal about my negative opinion tracing, eyeballing and frankenworks so I'm certainly not dismissing this lightly.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I feel it is relevant to show the journals that Acorn has had on her FurAffinity account, as she's been doing a bit of doubletalking between here and there.

Journal 1 - http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7066/acorn1.png
Journal 2 - http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4148/acorn2.png
Journal 3 - http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6660/acorn3.png

There was another one as well, but I was unable to get it.

I find it pretty insulting to the A_B community when something like this happens. It seems to me like Acorn isn't happy with the response she's gotten here (vs. on her FA where everyone is agreeing with her) and decided to bow out instead of owning up to a mistake.

It's also pretty telling when someone says "I didn't want any part of drama!!" but is more than willing to send out personal notes to every single person who asks outing this person. She was also spreading around the overlays through her friends before this too. I don't see any pressure to post on A_B, especially when she was so quick to post only ONE overlay.

Anyways, this is all I have to say on this topic. Actions speak louder than words, and when words are all you have to go on, you better be sure they match up if you want anyone to believe you in the future.

[munemunenyo.livejournal.com]

I'm on the fence about the whole tracing issue personally, but I agree with you Sigil. Seeing these posts on here and her actions on FA, I'm quite disappointed in her. Plus, waking up to a 4th journal on the issue from her just made me even more disappointed.

If she sincerely bowed out, I wouldn't have much opinion of her now. But going to FA and talking about it (and thus getting positive comments) in multiple journals speaks a lot about her character, imo.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

I was really on the fence with this one. A couple of the pieces seemed a little too close in certain areas, the one with the green character laying down in particular, but I have to say that Acorn's behaviour has really made me doubt the validity of her claims especially as other posters have shown how easy it is to make unrelated drawings line up in certain areas.

Insulting the entire community because not everyone agreed with you is childish and I'd hoped to see better than that. Likewise with namedropping someone who was featured here recently. That was low. =/

[aurastarlucario.livejournal.com]

I don't ever remember her insulting you guys. :\


Just because she has a bad history with the person doesn't mean
she's lying. And tracing is tracing, whether it's just a handpaw, a leg, or the whole picture.


I'm not trying to be a dick but still. :c