Guide for New Artists, Please?

[lastres0rt.livejournal.com]

I've been following the community for a while now, and while I've been meaning to also get into my own commissions . . . I've been having some trouble with it, mostly the 'getting started' part. I'd like to see a similar guide for new artists getting into the fray.

My previous experience with any sort of work-for-hire can be summed up thus:

1. Attempting to do an Art Auction on Gaia while questing. Long story short, I made in a "Panty Auction" around the same time frame (which to those not familiar with Gaia, is basically just personal charity/name-whoredom), and the Panty Auction made four times as much... which basically means I made jack.
2. Similar attempts on Gaia saw me making 1-2,000 gold for headshots a year later. Opening up a petstore on Gaia helped fetch higher prices (around 4,000 for custom stages), but only a half-dozen actually sold.

At this point I wised up a little and realized messing around with such tiny amounts was a fool's game, and have been mostly working on a webcomic to help boost my reputation. This method, while it's improved my skills significantly, still feels very slow-going reputation wise. I've really had to bite my tongue to keep my disillusionment in check (since I know 'being whiny' is a turnoff), but I get the sense that there's something actually wrong with how I'm promoting things, because I know there has to be a way to beat the 'sit on DeviantArt for Five Years' method.

I have no clue what to charge for how much effort; my comic pages can range anywhere from 1-3 days of work (most take just 1 though), and my previous headshot efforts took only a few hours, though comparing the two is pointless. I think I want to try a FurBid auction first just to get my feet wet, but since my first attempts for even virtual money did so poorly, I'm still not certain I have the reputation needed for this price to be representative, let alone worthwhile.

(Examples of my work will be shown upon request; the icon is from a future page in the comic, although I admit it's not my most recent work. I'm hesitant to show the most recent unless it's somehow relevant. Besides, the 'guide' could benefit from being a little more generalized than specifically to my situation.)

Comments

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Hrummm.
I'd say maybe try to drop in on a small furcon you can find nearby and set up in the Artist's Alley (usually free)

Spread your samples and prices on the table, but bring plenty of stuff to work on. Don't be disappointed if no one commissions you the whole con, though I kind of doubt that'd happen. The point is this is usually a fairly cheap way to start doing the commission thing, and strangely more effective than furbid and the like.

... but really I haven't done online commissions much, so I'm prolly not the best authority on that.

As for rep... eh. I wouldn't worry about it. Do your thing, and do it well; rep'll come or it won't.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

A good reputation, as opposed to a bad one, is hard work with slow results. I suggest you try not to obsess over it too much or you'll go nuts.

That said, there are definitely ways that will help you gain good reputation.
The comics is a good idea and you might get better results if you advertise it more and ask other comics for banner exchanges or exchange guest comics.
Furthermore, what is your target audience? Where do they gather? Go there and share your work there, join forums and discussions, be nice and helpful. Basically you can do anything to stick out in the crowd in a good way.

You're right that whining doesn't help and don't fall into the trap that some people have fallen into; any publicity is good publicity.
Some artists are trying to kickstart their career by being drama queens; they single out individuals more popular then them (for any reason) and are snide to them in public, the more witnesses the better. They rant about them in their journal in public posts, make public lists and generally vilify and obsess over people they don't even know.

They do it because they get a lot of attention that way, but it also ruins their reputation and chances of a serious career. If an art director googles your name and encounters journal posts where you're bragging you're going to kick someone ass if you see them at a con they'll rightly think you're unhinged and avoid you.

It takes a thousand good comments to build a reputation, it takes significantly fewer to ruin it. There are artists who do really good work but who's reputation for art has been overshadowed by their bad reputations for trolling and other negative things.

It's no coincidence that a lot of successful artists are also nice people; Dark Natasha, Gideon, Ursula Vernon etc.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Some people probably won't approve of what I'm about to say. But don't get into commissions just yet.

Your work is flat, your anatomy is awkward to look at in places. You pillow shade.You have potential but I wouldn't buy your work because your skill level is so low. Ultimately you would have to work extremely hard for even a trickle of commissions to be coming in with the level you currently work at. Spend your time working on your quality rather than trying to sell your work, it'll pay off better in the long run.

[lastres0rt.livejournal.com]

Madam, I was asking for a generalized guide for new artists looking to get commissions. You know... initial pricing, publicity, general starting procedure... things that aren't relevant to the process itself.

Your comment, while appreciated for the sheer fact that I was expecting a significantly better response from this topic, does nothing to help me 'correct' my apparent deficiencies. Furthermore, as I said, the works I have online are not my most recent because I currently have a sixteen-page backlog that's not been uploaded for public viewing, and it's at least as significant an evolution as I've demonstrated from the start of the comic. You're not looking at my current skill level and quite frankly, scaring me off from doing commissions based on admittedly 'old' works by comparison is just plain disheartening.

If I wanted to be told "Shut up and just draw", I would have stayed and continued to rot on DeviantArt. If there's one thing I'm fairly certain of, I need to sell as well as draw if I intend to get anywhere with this.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

...

You know I had some more advice but I think I'll just keep it to myself if you're going to be so snide to someone who's genuinely offering advice which she believes will serve in your best interest.

I'm sure you won't mind though since the advice thus far hasn't been satisfactory. I'll save my time for someone more deserving >_o

[arshes.livejournal.com]

Truth hurts?

Look, the process is slow, I do have to agree not to get into commissions yet. There are other reasons too, because you do need to have a better attitude too. Just seeing this reply alone makes me not want to commission you either.

Your works online ARE your advertisement. There is no excuse to say I want to sell but you don't show your best representation as to WHY you want us to buy.

Just because it was disheartening to read that means you have to evaluate yourself.

[arshes.livejournal.com]

Looks like we agree on something XD

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I think this is like the second time, I swear I'm calling my intarweb lawyer if you do it again :P

[arshes.livejournal.com]

Just because you and I don't always get a long and usually it's a lot doesn't mean we don't have the reason to see a valid viewpoint.

I think Jekkal could look at our exchange and perhaps be enlightened by the exchange. ;) But I'm hoping for too much considering her other posts on FAF.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Madam? I don't think I'm old enough to merit that yet. A generalised guide wouldn't help you. New is an arbeitrary definition anyway. Anyone can be an artist who is "new" to doing commissions whether they are on par with the great masters of art or still think composition is something for the garden.

Initial pricing? is based on skill level and quality of the commissions and what the customers will pay. There's no hard and fast rule on that, it's called research and looking objectively at your work.

I'm telling you the truth about your work. If you want critique on those specific problems? Join a critique group. You can say you have better but until you show better you will be judged by what you display as your current level. Even if as you claim you have improved, unless it is a large and significant improvement it still would be better for you to work on your artwork some more before entertaining the idea of taking paid work.

No, you don't need to sell to get places. I know an artist who is a few steps above you in terms of skill, she sells, and she is going nowhere fast because she's too tangled up in selling to her drooling fan brigade rather than improving her artwork. She is going to be doing cheapo rpg cookie cutter art for the rest of her life. Every-time I see her she's yammering about how she wants to work for this and that company but because she's so busy drawing crappy cookie cutter commissions for her fan brigade that she's too busy to work on the depth needed in her work in order to work for the companies she wants to work for. She's hit a glass ceiling because she rushed into selling. She rushes her work in order to get it to the customer and all it's done is make her prone to lazy shortcuts, she fudges anatomy terribly instead of learning how to do it properly and then getting faster at it. Needless to say, no serious company will ever take her, she's going to be mediocre for the rest of her artistic career simply because she's too busy selling mediocre work to develope her skills.

[arshes.livejournal.com]

exchange and be enlightened by the exchange? Oh man.

Department of Redundancy Department -.-;;;

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Other posts? Oh, dare I ask? >_o

[thaily.livejournal.com]

"She rushes her work in order to get it to the customer and all it's done is make her prone to lazy shortcuts"

She could work for Disney! :3

"she fudges anatomy terribly instead of learning how to do it properly and then getting faster at it."

She could work for Disney! :3

"Needless to say, no serious company will ever take her"

She could work for Disney! :3

"she's going to be mediocre for the rest of her artistic career"

She could work for Disney! :3

"she's too busy selling mediocre work"

She could work for Disney! :3

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Trust me, even Disney is out of her reach. I doubt they want anyone who can only draw black bimbos in about 6 different poses and a variety of badly drawn skimpy outfits. She wants to work for heavy metal actually. >.>

[pegla.livejournal.com]

Hey, she could always work as a Navy Seal.

They accept anything these days.

[atamakatjazz.livejournal.com]

it seems you're pretty bent on burning people about their artistic abilities. you think you're being constructive with the stuff you're saying,but you mostly just come off as an ass,at least to me. basically all you're doing is hiding behind things that could be constructive as an excuse to tell everyone how horrible everyones art is. there IS a difference between constructive criticism and being an asshole. sorry,but you are the second of the two.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they have Kimberleigh Ann Keister and Lougara... ;D

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Oh look, a non-member has come out of nowhere to complain.
I'm putting 10 dollars on a bet that Jekkal went elsewhere to complain about how mean we are and you're one of his friends trying to protect him from the answers given to the question he asked.

Lilenth isn't bitching about people's artistic ability, she's bitching about people unwillingness to improve their work and do what it takes to realize their dreams.
For Jekkal popularity and high commission prices and for the other artists mentioned being able to do heavy metal work.

I mean, if people don't want to put the work in and listen to the advice which will help them reach their goal that's fine, but then they shouldn't bother other people with questions and/or complaints to begin with.

It's people like that who make it hard, if not impossible, for people like me to get honest opinions from people like Lilenth which I need to improve my work. Because I am serious about my advancement.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Yeah because letting people dive headfirst into something they're honestly not really prepared for is the sort of things assholes do all the time. If being truthful is being an asshole then I'd rather be an asshole than a kiss ass.

[atamakatjazz.livejournal.com]

you handled it in a very negative manner. something like "try improving your art a little bit,maybe that will help get commissions" is better than

but right away you just list off all the things you find wrong with her work. you might as well gone "your art sucks,heres a list of why it sucks,and thats why you're not getting commissions"

like i said,not all criticism is constructive,it's annoying when someone tries to just spit out shit thats wrong with people and then when they get bent out of shape about it go OH YOU JUST CANT TAKE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. no,there is a difference.

Re: Such an appropriate icon

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but no-one is going to take you seriously here when you talk like that. If you're so right why are you the one who came in here and started abusing others. I don't care if Jekkal is your friend, you don't get to abuse people in her "defense". She's old enough to look after herself, if she can't handle other people opinions then that's her problem.

Fact is pretty much everyone here are experienced artists or have spent enough time around experienced artists to know what's what. Just because you're offended that we didn't tell Jekkal to go out there are start selling straight away doesn't mean we're wrong. It just means you're letting your emotions cloud how you see the issue.

This is a semi-professional listing, there's not room for fragile egos here so please either produce a better argument than insults or stop bothering people.

Re: Such an appropriate icon

[atamakatjazz.livejournal.com]

this is not a matter of fragile egos,this is a matter of a bunch of people hurling insults and then getting shocked when someone tries to insult back. right now,jekkal wants me to stop responding to everyone,in fact she never wanted me to respond at all. but i find it hard to sit still and watch people say stupid things without anyone at least trying to counter it. on top of my insults i am countering your points,at least when a better one is given than "its none of your business"

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

This isn't a critique board, plus I think it's a poor idea to lie to newer artists about how much hard work professional art is. "A little bit" would be a lie, she has a lot of areas that have a lot of room for improvement in them. The listings on places like furbid are often flooded with substandard artwork that doesn't sell, why get someone's hopes up only to let reality crush it. I did say she has potential but that potential needs work before she goes into selling.

Also please learn the difference between professional level criticism and pandering. I don't do pandering and I'm much requested as a critic because of it.

[arshes.livejournal.com]

I think my favorite post of hers was bitching about people's icons being False advertising.

Basically the presumption that everyone must use their own art for an avatar on FA. I guess clicking on GALLERY is hard these days. I should just judge people by icons.

Re: Such an appropriate icon

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Someone's art does not equal them. If Jekkal cannot seperate herself from her artwork then she most certainly had no business selling. Professional selling requires that people learn to part with work which can be a wrench for those who are overly attached to their work.

You have countered nothing, you have not proven that Jekkal should be selling at her skill level. All you've done is throw insults and add nothing intelligent to the conversation. How about you try to manage something that isn't "you're a meanie" as a comment?