artists_beware | (no subject)

Entry tags:

resolved,
tracing

(no subject)

WHO: Kee/Kyme/Inarolyn/Iaz/Janks/Len/Neicom

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kee (all the above are also FA accounts that she has hopped between, but Kee is her current).

WHAT: Tracing. Most of the traces are partial and have been "frankensteined".

WHEN: This has been going on for awhile from what I have been able to figure.

EXPLAIN: Again, I was asked to post this here by several people after compiling multiple instances of her tracing of recent. A lot of people felt a public warning should be made, since she jumps accounts quite frequently. She's also traced several times in the past, but I haven't been able to locate the originals.

As an example, this is art from five-six months ago that she drew while living with me:
http://i44.tinypic.com/jzodv.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/jgo415.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/jt5hj5.png
She's never traced while living with me because I had gotten onto her in the past for copying other artists.

These are the traces I've found evidence of:
First example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820740/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820732/    [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6595400/ [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i44.tinypic.com/s1kksm.jpg    [NSFW]

Second example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6894553/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6577848/    [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/25r1sh1.png   [NSFW]

Third example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898927
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6703170/
Overlay:
http://i39.tinypic.com/otfbcw.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/34r617b.jpg

Fourth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898413
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6057168/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/fljxvr.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/14m5abk.jpg

Fifth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898388
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6789179/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ppzyx4.jpg

Sixth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6807846/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5060030/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/yyp01.jpg

Edit:
Got shown these ones last night:
Seventh example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898399   [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://i42.tinypic.com/aekvg5.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ohis69.jpg   [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a7v9c4.png    [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/wsw93q.png    [NSFW]

Eighth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6811551/
Traced from:
http://i40.tinypic.com/zupcli.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i44.tinypic.com/350nrxh.jpg     [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/1042nn6.jpg    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/kdx5b8.jpg   [NSFW]

Almost all the traces have been of artists whom she's watching, the only exception being my own art.

Suspected traces:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6852690/       [NSFW]
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898425/    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/xdruq0.jpg (from 2010)       [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/14kifzn.jpg (from 2010)     [NSFW]

There were a few others that were TCBY commissions that I am certain were traced, but I never saved the files.

As is evidenced, her anatomy flipflops from really well done, to filled with errors. If anyone can provide originals for some of the suspected traces, it'd be appreciated as well. NO ONE improves that greatly in a five month period, drawing as rarely as she does. I don't think everything she uploads/draws is traced, but much of it is.

Edit: Here's some more overlays with varying opacity's to give a clearer idea of where the lines are a perfect match.
http://i44.tinypic.com/206fmvt.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2s9alas.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2gw7v3o.jpg [nsfw]
http://i43.tinypic.com/1j9nit.jpg [nsfw]

Edit2:
I'm redacting my allegations of tracing, as I really don't want to be involved in any drama with this person to start with.

Edit3: I'm sorry, to make it more clear, I am retracting my allegations as there isn't sufficient evidence of tracing going on. I have posted apologies here and on FA.

Fixed overlays with proper aspect ratio:
http://i44.tinypic.com/rhj09f.jpg

Here it is in 3 different colors, still matching in the same areas. (I rotated it quickly, so it's not the exact same as the other overlays, but I'm too tired to redo all this again just to be perfect for the naysayers).
http://i39.tinypic.com/r0vw4h.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/de6ycw.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/mil4kh.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/nvnzx4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/15i9g8j.png

There is no WAY any of the above have been distorted, as I did use the shift key as I was told.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

oh woops! Please do I totally didn't notice.

I'm pretty bad about catching those things too, but then again I live in one of those houses with furry porn on the walls XD

I'm not sure if you've read through the rest of the comments, but the evidence has been examined and many people have found it to be "not solid" based on how little is in line, the nature of the areas "copied," and the lines actually not being in alignment.

Furthermore the eight overlays originally posted have found to be distorted in addition to being scaled meaning even fewer body parts are in alignment. The artist in question has also supplied reference that the art matches much more closely that the art the OP alleges is copied.

Everything put together makes for a really weak case.

http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/542457.html?thread=20413433#t20413433

I'mma just leave this link for you here. That particular example was proven to be manipulated into place.

If you believe the evidence to be solid, try to replicate them yourself. You'll see it's not black and white at all.

it's funny how you guys think that torsos are the easiest part to get to "look right," when i see boatloads of shapeless female figures on FA and know that plenty of artists struggle with the hip area.

And do they do better on hands?

some people have a natural knack for certain things.
there is no definitive list of things ordered by difficulty to draw.

it's different for everybody.

just because you can draw a hand does not mean that you can grasp the concept of a shapely woman.

Every professional artist I've spoken to indicates that the hands are the hardest part of the body to draw (possibly up there with the face, but most will say the hand is harder), I have never heard that about the hips or torso. From an anatomical point of view, there is far less happening in the hip (it's a single ball and socket). In addition, the artist has changed or added structures in the torso that indicates she is capable of drawing it and even the OP of this post admitted it.

This is neglecting how many points of articulation are in the hand too. If we simplify the wrist to a ball and socket joint like the hip, the hand has 14 more clear joints that the hip area, even more are hidden and act more subtlety. When comparing a traced or copied hand, there will be about 10 points that will line up (if I'm stingy), in these hip overlays, you'll get about 3 (and I'm being generous).

In addition, a point is far harder to align than a curve. A curve can be aligned at multiple points, whereas point really only has one potential area of overlap. This makes it substantially easier to get a false alignment.

And this is further neglecting that the artist herself has posted references that match the poses much more closely than the art the OP posted.

Yea, I knew this post was super grudgey. I could smell it. :O

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Hopefully Acorn gets over her obsession with you. It's pretty obvious to me that you weren't tracing anything. xC

welp. nothing i say matters here. my bad. didn't realize that.

considering you are someone who made a journal calling Kee out as a coward for blocking you when you were trolling and spamming her, i'm going to dismiss anything you say here due to bias.

I'm going to try to compile all of the evidence here to maybe help people who don't want to sift through 400+ comments to see why many of us are disagreeing that tracing took place.

1. The original overlays posted above were (unintentionally) manipulated to stretch and distort to fit the lines of the accused tracing. Fixed overlays were created to show that the originals were tampered with, and therefore not solid evidence.

Proof here: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/542457.html?thread=20397817#t20397817

2. The poses in all of the art are extremely generic. A couple of which not even matching in perspective, although OP claims that they still match up line for line when tilted and rotated around. Do that with anyone's art, and you're bound to find similarities and matched up lines, even if obvious there was no reference/tracing involved.

Example here: http://i.imgur.com/49AbO.jpg

3. The aspect of bias is heavily prevalent in OP's tone and words, considering how she has acted off the site, twisting many of the commenters' words here that we're saying "it's ok to partially trace", instead of our real words of saying that "we do not see the trace". Not to mention she also sent a snarky message to the accused.

Journals linked here: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/542457.html?thread=20365305#t20365305
The message here: http://i43.tinypic.com/1z4ygco.png

4. The accused has come forward to provide the actual references she has used, which match the "traced" work much more than what the OP was arguing.

Journal here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2947590/
Examples:
http://i39.tinypic.com/211v5nm.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/a88ko.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/28wf81f.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/1zxxeg9.jpg

In conclusion, I personally believe that the OP was blind with her bias and history with this person, and thus got over zealous thinking that because one or two small lines added up, that meant that she and many other artists were being traced. This has since been debunked with evidence provided by the accused, and the members of the community. Take from it what you will.

I should also note, because I forgot to, many of those links are NSFW! Sorry for forgetting to say so in the post.

Not when everything you say is demonstrably wrong.

Calm down Cel, at this point you've explained yourself very logically and clearly. They just choose not to listen and that's their unfortunate loss.

Sorry, I get frustrated when logic is simply dismissed as a grudge.

this is all i said.

"some people have a natural knack for certain things.
there is no definitive list of things ordered by difficulty to draw.

it's different for everybody.

just because you can draw a hand does not mean that you can grasp the concept of a shapely woman."

is this wrong?

my unfortunate loss for believing that every artist struggles in different ways?

okay.

LOL the apology.

"Yea, I totally recant the tracing allegations since I, uh, accidentally distored them-wait! Some of them do line up without the distortion! NEVER MIND SHE'S TRACING AFTER ALL! SEE! SEE! BELIEVE ME!!!"

The sad part is that next time Acorn posts about Kee, or someone else tracing, I'll probably call bullshit on it unless it's really good evidence. This is what happens when you cry wolf Acorn.

Tell you what, you find an example of someone who has good hands and noticeably misshapen torsos, or a professional artist saying something similar and then we'll talk. Sound fair?

And just so you don't claim I don't have any proof of my statement, this guy: http://youtu.be/pR9YU1ThhAk at 1:10 talks about how the hand takes half of his time on a draw as it's like a whole body in and of itself. Loomis has an entire book dedicated to hands and heads. Birdgman also has an entire book dedicated to hands. Neither have a book solely dedicated to torsos. I'm also limiting myself to very well respected teachers, not just any professional artist I can find.

look at the hands in kee's drawings, though.

these hand positions are either simple ones (that i know i personally use to hide the fact that i suck at drawing hands), or the hands are hidden.

i wouldn't call her good at them.

Oh, and here from Vilppu who is the man. "Hands and feet are particularly difficult because of the complexity of the forms to start with, and the variety of shapes, combinations and gestures they take. Hands and feet are subjects that seem to continually give artists a great deal of difficulty." Souce

That was my point, that hands are harder than hips. Your mission is to find someone with good hands and lousy hips.

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