(no subject)

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

WHO:  Kee/Kyme/Inarolyn/Iaz/Janks/Len/Neicom


WHERE:  http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kee (all the above are also FA accounts that she has hopped between, but Kee is her current).

WHAT: Tracing. Most of the traces are partial and have been "frankensteined".


WHEN: This has been going on for awhile from what I have been able to figure.

EXPLAIN: Again, I was asked to post this here by several people after compiling multiple instances of her tracing of recent. A lot of people felt a public warning should be made, since she jumps accounts quite frequently. She's also traced several times in the past, but I haven't been able to locate the originals.


As an example, this is art from five-six months ago that she drew while living with me:
http://i44.tinypic.com/jzodv.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/jgo415.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/jt5hj5.png
She's never traced while living with me because I had gotten onto her in the past for copying other artists.


These are the traces I've found evidence of:
First example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820740/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820732/    [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6595400/ [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i44.tinypic.com/s1kksm.jpg    [NSFW]



Second example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6894553/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6577848/    [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/25r1sh1.png   [NSFW]



Third example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898927
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6703170/
Overlay:
http://i39.tinypic.com/otfbcw.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/34r617b.jpg




Fourth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898413
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6057168/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/fljxvr.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/14m5abk.jpg



Fifth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898388
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6789179/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ppzyx4.jpg



Sixth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6807846/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5060030/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/yyp01.jpg

Edit:
Got shown these ones last night:
Seventh example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898399   [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://i42.tinypic.com/aekvg5.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ohis69.jpg   [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a7v9c4.png    [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/wsw93q.png    [NSFW]

Eighth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6811551/
Traced from:
http://i40.tinypic.com/zupcli.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i44.tinypic.com/350nrxh.jpg     [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/1042nn6.jpg    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/kdx5b8.jpg   [NSFW]




Almost all the traces have been of artists whom she's watching, the only exception being my own art.


Suspected traces:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6852690/       [NSFW]
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898425/    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/xdruq0.jpg (from 2010)       [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/14kifzn.jpg (from 2010)     [NSFW]

There were a few others that were TCBY commissions that I am certain were traced, but I never saved the files.



As is evidenced, her anatomy flipflops from really well done, to filled with errors. If anyone can provide originals for some of the suspected traces, it'd be appreciated as well. NO ONE improves that greatly in a five month period, drawing as rarely as she does. I don't think everything she uploads/draws is traced, but much of it is.

Edit: Here's some more overlays with varying opacity's to give a clearer idea of where the lines are a perfect match.
http://i44.tinypic.com/206fmvt.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2s9alas.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2gw7v3o.jpg  [nsfw]
http://i43.tinypic.com/1j9nit.jpg   [nsfw]

Edit2:
I'm redacting my allegations of tracing, as I really don't want to be involved in any drama with this person to start with.


Edit3: I'm sorry, to make it more clear, I am retracting my allegations as there isn't sufficient evidence of tracing going on. I have posted apologies here and on FA.



Fixed overlays with proper aspect ratio:
http://i44.tinypic.com/rhj09f.jpg

Here it is in 3 different colors, still matching in the same areas. (I rotated it quickly, so it's not the exact same as the other overlays, but I'm too tired to redo all this again just to be perfect for the naysayers).
http://i39.tinypic.com/r0vw4h.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/de6ycw.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/mil4kh.jpg



http://i40.tinypic.com/nvnzx4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/15i9g8j.png

There is no WAY any of the above have been distorted, as I did use the shift key as I was told.

Comments

[obliviousally.livejournal.com]

At the same time, the type of bodies being drawn here are all the typical skinny/slender sort. Of course some parts of the body are going to 'line up' in these cases because they're the same body type.

While frankenstein tracing does happen, unless it's very specific things and not just a leg here or a back curve there, it's impossible to really pin down if it's tracing or just a coincidence.

(frozen comment)

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

I'm going to freeze this thread because discussion of Dipper's post is off-topic and inappropriate to debate in an entirely unrelated entry.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

This really doesn't make sense to me. The outer curves of the hip and thigh are usually what are easiest; why would that be the only part they trace? The things people usually trace are things like faces, muzzles, fingers, clothes.

I'm not saying you don't genuinely think there is tracing here but it looks to me like you kinda did this:

Example
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6311013/ (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6311013/)(NSFW)
Traced from (not really):
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3925471/ (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3925471/)NSFW!

Overlay:
http://www.spiffyspace.com/misc/acorn-not-traced.jpg (http://www.spiffyspace.com/misc/acorn-not-traced.jpg) (Still NSFW)

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

Except that those don't line up at all, unlike the examples provided.


But as I said in my journal, I am redacting my allegations of tracing. Since everyone feels that because it's only small parts of the images, it doesn't count, it's best I don't try and continue to argue my point less I come off as an asshole for it.

[ocelotish]

I hate to do this, but here's what it seems like you're pointing to as evidence of tracing: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Celarania/Sample.jpg (NSFW) Notice how the butt, back, and even the space between the legs line up. And this was done without real time scaling and rotation in gimp, I probably could have gotten closer still in photoshop.

Now I don't think that you did trace that or have ever even seen that photo, but I could get a few areas to line up well, with the same ratio. If I could do that with a photo you've never seen, this artist could easily have what you're doing with references either to the art in question or to the same reference, or whatever.

[ocelotish]

Sorry didn't see this. I did something similar: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Celarania/Sample.jpg

Notice how the stomach, butt, and line of the inner leg all line up.

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

that's what I was thinking as well.

[ocelotish]

You're examples don't line up very well according to many people here.

Since everyone feels that because it's only small parts of the images, it doesn't count, it's best I don't try and continue to argue my point less I come off as an asshole for it.

How dare you twist people's comments like that! People have looked at these without a bias and said "I don't see the tracing," not "it's only a little so it doesn't count."

[ocelotish]

*Your examples (I fail tonight)

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

What about the fact that the artist I've mentioned is watching all of those artists except for me and Dipper, and she favorited the drawing titled Lydia that I did months ago, and the other image was my featured submission for months?

And I don't think I even need to mention the fact that my drawing and that photo don't look anything alike or match, while all the images I've provided do.


That said, I am bowing out of this discussion and redacting my allegations of tracing since so many people here feel that, even though lines match up perfectly, it's not tracing because it's only the waists/hips/other small areas.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying: I'm not saying "it's okay to trace a few lines" because unless kee/kyme/etc comes forward and says "yeah that's what I was doing" I'm not convinced there was ANY tracing whatsoever.

What I am saying is that if you have a ton of line art of women, and you resize and rotate the images, yeah a few lines are going to match up naturally EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NO TRACING WHATSOEVER.

[ocelotish]

You're right, and in my first comment I said she may be referencing them!

It looks just about as similar to me, and as I said, I don't have photoshop where I can really nail the scales. Also the back line is very similar to your drawing.

Many people here feel like they do not match up! Do not try to twist this into you being right, but people just excusing it! That's not what's happening! People are doubting your evidence not whether the tracing is alright or not! We're doubting the "crime" being committed at all, not whether it's done for an acceptable reason.

[ocelotish]

Also, what I posted doesn't even line up: http://i42.tinypic.com/25r1sh1.png (NSFW) this much?

[squirrelly-kaku.livejournal.com]

Like I said before when you posted on your fa journal the one you claimed was traced from you, I think you're over-reaching due to a bias you have against this person. Those lines barely line up to each other, and no less, these are extremely generic poses. As others have provided examples of exactly what you're doing to these overlays, you're seeing what we're seeing when it's suddenly focused on your art.

You might want to just take a breather for a bit. Your history with this person just might be clouding your judgement.

[cesarin.livejournal.com]

probably because most furs thinks tracing (like many then popufurs did) is a easy and instant ticket to success.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

acorn says the lines I arrowed don't line up "exactly" but they seem to line up as "Exactly" as most of the examples above (as in, not EXACTLY, just close.)

The overlays aren't exact either, plus the ones I looked at more closely, the images have to be resized and maybe rotated to "match".

[ocelotish]

Yeah, that was my point too. :) I was just pointing out the areas I thought were closest.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Sooo... tracing was redacted here because OP "doesn't want drama" but on FA it's cuz "A_B thinks it's okay to trace a little".

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

As I've said repeatedly, I didn't even want to write the A_B, and no, I don't want the drama. From what I gather, you guys say because the images had to be slightly rotated or resized, that means it doesn't count? Which makes no sense, personally. A smart person WOULD resize/rotate something they've traced to make it harder to catch.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I don't know how to make it any clearer: I'm saying what you're seeing looks like pure coincidence to me. If you take two similar poses (NOT traced, just two pictures of women with similar body types, which is easy if both artists draw women a lot) and resize and rotate to make the waists match, then yes, that small part of the waist will match closely because you made it do so.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

But we aren't talking about just a close match, we're talking line for line, following the same curve up the waist and ribcage and down the hips in most of the images. I admit, at least three of them are changed enough that they don't follow closely, but many of them are line for line.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

... I really don't see any "line for line" except where you have forced a single curve or two to match by resizing/rotation? But the subtle anatomy bumps are different, work with the real picture better, etc.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I feel that if it was only referenced or wasn't traced at all, that the hip to hip and stomach to back ratios would not be identical enough to match perfectly.

I can't force someone else to see it from my viewpoint, which is why I have tried to bow out of this conversation.

[ocelotish]

If you didn't want drama you'd just admit that maybe you were wrong, or apologize, not be passive-aggressive towards this community.

From what I gather, you guys say because the images had to be slightly rotated or resized, that means it doesn't count?

I think I've said this very clearly before, but you don't seem to have understood. You have presented us with short segments lining up generally, but not exactly. These segments are from very vague general areas, as opposed to detailed, specific areas. First there's very little sense to tracing these areas (they're not very hard to draw in the first place), secondly, they are comparative easy to line up with simple scaling/rotation of a similar image. That is exactly what spiffystuff and I did with your art, with similar results. It was to show that there can be some overlap without any tracing or referencing whatsoever. On previous posts, there have been images that are scaled and frankensteined, and while there may be disagreement over how "wrong" that is, there is no disagreement over whether or not it happened. Here most people don't think it happened, even when scaled and rotated. Your evidence is not convincing due to a lack of similarity even when scaled and rotated.

[ocelotish]

If you didn't want drama or you didn't want to continue this, you'd back down quietly, not talk about how a_b is excusing it! You may not be going out for drama, but obviously avoiding drama is less important to you than admitting that you might have made a mistake.