artists_beware | (no subject)

WHO: Kee/Kyme/Inarolyn/Iaz/Janks/Len/Neicom

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kee (all the above are also FA accounts that she has hopped between, but Kee is her current).

WHAT: Tracing. Most of the traces are partial and have been "frankensteined".

WHEN: This has been going on for awhile from what I have been able to figure.

EXPLAIN: Again, I was asked to post this here by several people after compiling multiple instances of her tracing of recent. A lot of people felt a public warning should be made, since she jumps accounts quite frequently. She's also traced several times in the past, but I haven't been able to locate the originals.

As an example, this is art from five-six months ago that she drew while living with me:
http://i44.tinypic.com/jzodv.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/jgo415.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/jt5hj5.png
She's never traced while living with me because I had gotten onto her in the past for copying other artists.

These are the traces I've found evidence of:
First example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820740/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820732/    [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6595400/ [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i44.tinypic.com/s1kksm.jpg    [NSFW]

Second example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6894553/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6577848/    [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/25r1sh1.png   [NSFW]

Third example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898927
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6703170/
Overlay:
http://i39.tinypic.com/otfbcw.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/34r617b.jpg

Fourth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898413
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6057168/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/fljxvr.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/14m5abk.jpg

Fifth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898388
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6789179/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ppzyx4.jpg

Sixth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6807846/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5060030/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/yyp01.jpg

Edit:
Got shown these ones last night:
Seventh example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898399   [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://i42.tinypic.com/aekvg5.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ohis69.jpg   [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a7v9c4.png    [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/wsw93q.png    [NSFW]

Eighth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6811551/
Traced from:
http://i40.tinypic.com/zupcli.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i44.tinypic.com/350nrxh.jpg     [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/1042nn6.jpg    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/kdx5b8.jpg   [NSFW]

Almost all the traces have been of artists whom she's watching, the only exception being my own art.

Suspected traces:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6852690/       [NSFW]
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898425/    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/xdruq0.jpg (from 2010)       [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/14kifzn.jpg (from 2010)     [NSFW]

There were a few others that were TCBY commissions that I am certain were traced, but I never saved the files.

As is evidenced, her anatomy flipflops from really well done, to filled with errors. If anyone can provide originals for some of the suspected traces, it'd be appreciated as well. NO ONE improves that greatly in a five month period, drawing as rarely as she does. I don't think everything she uploads/draws is traced, but much of it is.

Edit: Here's some more overlays with varying opacity's to give a clearer idea of where the lines are a perfect match.
http://i44.tinypic.com/206fmvt.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2s9alas.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2gw7v3o.jpg [nsfw]
http://i43.tinypic.com/1j9nit.jpg [nsfw]

Edit2:
I'm redacting my allegations of tracing, as I really don't want to be involved in any drama with this person to start with.

Edit3: I'm sorry, to make it more clear, I am retracting my allegations as there isn't sufficient evidence of tracing going on. I have posted apologies here and on FA.

Fixed overlays with proper aspect ratio:
http://i44.tinypic.com/rhj09f.jpg

Here it is in 3 different colors, still matching in the same areas. (I rotated it quickly, so it's not the exact same as the other overlays, but I'm too tired to redo all this again just to be perfect for the naysayers).
http://i39.tinypic.com/r0vw4h.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/de6ycw.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/mil4kh.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/nvnzx4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/15i9g8j.png

There is no WAY any of the above have been distorted, as I did use the shift key as I was told.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

A trace is a trace is a trace, regardless if it's just a body part or a full figure. Is it more damning to trace a full figure than just a waist or hips or an arm, etc? And how is that fair if that's true? Tracing a waist is still tracing. Why is this even being argued?

If another artist can be convicted of tracing eyes, why can't another artist be convicted of tracing waists or "frankensteining"?

I just don't get it, when the evidence is right there.

And in case anyone asks, I'm not white-knighting. I'm pissed about this for a couple reasons. It's not fair to the rest of us who work hard and practice anatomy and really learn to draw this stuff ourselves, when other artists are just poaching lines off another instead of learning it properly too. And tracing is NOT a learning tool, it is a crutch. Take a few life drawing classes (I know some schools hold open ones on the weekends), reference your friends or photos, practice, that's how you learn anatomy. Not by stealing someone else's waist.

/soapbox

I think you are missing the point.

I'm sure as you've been learning anatomy that you're realizing that proportions are relatively standard in bodies, and that some angles of positioning the body look better than others. Even in very stylized drawings, the bodies tend to be places with the least stylization--IE the places most likely to match up at random. In the comments people took the work of the OP herself and showed how ti could match up to pictures she may have never seen before, in some cases with several matching lines.

People aren't disagreeing because "it's just a LITTLE tracing" people are explaining that the evidence is lacking. Real, undeniable evidence would include limbs, hands, feet or facial features. Why? Because not only are these the most difficult areas to draw, they also tend to be very stylized and differ artist to artist. Notice that in every other tracing post, THESE were the places they got caught on? I'd be willing to be you can take mine or anyone elses art and find examples on par with the ones in this post by finding similar body types in similar poses. Of all areas, hips and waist make the least sense to trace, I'm sure in your anatomical studies you've probably noticed they're easy too.

Yes, proportions are relatively standard in bodies. And I think that pasting of the OP's art over a random photo was flimsy at best. Nothing matched up but that little line in the back, and the examples of tracing given here match up in many more points.

Hips and waist aren't always easy. It depends on the positioning and how the torso twists (if it twists, that really throws off the ribcage relative to the pelvis). Plus distances between the iliac crests can be different two, such as two women have the same height proportions, but one has narrower hips.

http://i42.tinypic.com/yyp01.jpg

I fail to see how this one just happened to match proportion, distance between lines (as in one side of the hip to the other), AND lines. A line on the back? Okay, I'll admit that's a little bit weak. But I have a particular problem with this one.

I really just have a hard time when lines match up so close, it can't all be just eyeballing.

But it seems I'm the minority here, so I guess I'll just leave this be. I've said my piece. Granted, the evidence could possibly have been presented tighter, but it is what it is.

For what it's worth I agree with you and I can't comprehend why people are disagreeing. To be fair I know nothing about any parties. I wonder where the grudge is actually laying, here-- from an outsider perspective it sounds like the comm is grudge-y at this OP. I'm hoping that's not the case and I absolutely agree that this picture is a blatant trace job. I'm very dumbfounded by people denying that.

I didn't know anyone involved in this (I'm not on FA), however, I was personally getting pretty frustrated with the OP misrepresenting what was being said.

I also did a break down of why I consider that to not be as conclusive as you do - http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/542457.html?thread=20429561#t20429561 You don't have to agree, but it might help to see what I'm looking at when I say that it's not lining up. (Not to mention the one posted above had been further distorted.) The first one is the green dog overlay.

The other thing is that I literally cannot think of a reason why anyone would trace like that. The artist knows enough to have the landmarks, so she knows the torso so it's not an anatomy crutch, they're different enough that it doesn't seem like it would be tracing due to lack of self-confidence, and it would take longer to trace and alter it that much in a simple rather than to just draw it from scratch so it's not due to laziness/time-constraints. If you have insight into why this would happen, please let me know, but for me it doesn't hold water technically or psychologically. It doesn't make sense.

Unfortunately I have no grounding in proof so whatever I say won't matter much compared to overlays etc, but I used to trace exactly in this way when I was 15 or so; I would Frankenstein or trace "just the thigh" or "just the chest/armpit area" etc. Tracing "just the torso" is absolutely something that's done by people who aren't quite as confident. For me it's always been shoulder areas, though I would never trace nowadays, I'd trace shoulder/neck/chest regions back 9-10 years ago without hesitation. Additionally it's blatant that they are "inspired by" the poses that the match-ups come from.

Either way it doesn't matter in the long run, as the majority have deemed it not tracing. But I have absolutely seen (and taken part in) this sort of tracing over the years.

Oh, I know that people frankenstein, and my own opinion of it is a completely different discussion, but let me just say that even if that small area was traced, then as modified as it is, I suspect that it would be transformative enough to not be an issue under copyright law. I have little reason to claim it's not tracing as a defense when that's one right there.

I understand that people trace for a variety of reasons, but it seems like if the artist in question was not confident enough to draw the torso, how would they be confident enough to make enough changes to the rest to get a very different picture like that? Why would they be confident enough to change the anatomy by adding landmarks? In addition why would they be confident enough to draw the breasts, shoulders, and actual joint portion of the hip by themselves? That's the harder part in these images, not the general expanse of the torso.

http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/542457.html?thread=20413433#t20413433

I'mma just leave this link for you here. That particular example was proven to be manipulated into place.

I might not have been convinced with the previous eye-tracing post, either, except THAT post came with an admission from the artist saying they DID trace. This just has a couple curves that line up on fairly standard poses of commonly drawn bodytypes after resizing and rotation.