artists_beware | (no subject)

Entry tags:

resolved,
tracing

(no subject)

WHO: Kee/Kyme/Inarolyn/Iaz/Janks/Len/Neicom

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kee (all the above are also FA accounts that she has hopped between, but Kee is her current).

WHAT: Tracing. Most of the traces are partial and have been "frankensteined".

WHEN: This has been going on for awhile from what I have been able to figure.

EXPLAIN: Again, I was asked to post this here by several people after compiling multiple instances of her tracing of recent. A lot of people felt a public warning should be made, since she jumps accounts quite frequently. She's also traced several times in the past, but I haven't been able to locate the originals.

As an example, this is art from five-six months ago that she drew while living with me:
http://i44.tinypic.com/jzodv.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/jgo415.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/jt5hj5.png
She's never traced while living with me because I had gotten onto her in the past for copying other artists.

These are the traces I've found evidence of:
First example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820740/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820732/    [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6595400/ [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i44.tinypic.com/s1kksm.jpg    [NSFW]

Second example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6894553/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6577848/    [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/25r1sh1.png   [NSFW]

Third example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898927
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6703170/
Overlay:
http://i39.tinypic.com/otfbcw.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/34r617b.jpg

Fourth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898413
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6057168/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/fljxvr.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/14m5abk.jpg

Fifth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898388
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6789179/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ppzyx4.jpg

Sixth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6807846/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5060030/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/yyp01.jpg

Edit:
Got shown these ones last night:
Seventh example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898399   [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://i42.tinypic.com/aekvg5.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ohis69.jpg   [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a7v9c4.png    [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/wsw93q.png    [NSFW]

Eighth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6811551/
Traced from:
http://i40.tinypic.com/zupcli.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i44.tinypic.com/350nrxh.jpg     [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/1042nn6.jpg    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/kdx5b8.jpg   [NSFW]

Almost all the traces have been of artists whom she's watching, the only exception being my own art.

Suspected traces:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6852690/       [NSFW]
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898425/    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/xdruq0.jpg (from 2010)       [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/14kifzn.jpg (from 2010)     [NSFW]

There were a few others that were TCBY commissions that I am certain were traced, but I never saved the files.

As is evidenced, her anatomy flipflops from really well done, to filled with errors. If anyone can provide originals for some of the suspected traces, it'd be appreciated as well. NO ONE improves that greatly in a five month period, drawing as rarely as she does. I don't think everything she uploads/draws is traced, but much of it is.

Edit: Here's some more overlays with varying opacity's to give a clearer idea of where the lines are a perfect match.
http://i44.tinypic.com/206fmvt.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2s9alas.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2gw7v3o.jpg [nsfw]
http://i43.tinypic.com/1j9nit.jpg [nsfw]

Edit2:
I'm redacting my allegations of tracing, as I really don't want to be involved in any drama with this person to start with.

Edit3: I'm sorry, to make it more clear, I am retracting my allegations as there isn't sufficient evidence of tracing going on. I have posted apologies here and on FA.

Fixed overlays with proper aspect ratio:
http://i44.tinypic.com/rhj09f.jpg

Here it is in 3 different colors, still matching in the same areas. (I rotated it quickly, so it's not the exact same as the other overlays, but I'm too tired to redo all this again just to be perfect for the naysayers).
http://i39.tinypic.com/r0vw4h.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/de6ycw.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/mil4kh.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/nvnzx4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/15i9g8j.png

There is no WAY any of the above have been distorted, as I did use the shift key as I was told.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Since someone here told me how to use shift to preserve aspect ratio, I went and created more overlays using Sai's transform + shift key.

This one is still dead on through most of the hips/waist/body, and I think she did intentionally trace that one because of who it was for and the fact that I drew it.
http://i43.tinypic.com/55oxgo.jpg

I did it with this one just to test it with other images, and I do see where it may have gotten distorted in my initial post. Looking at it now, it's either a trace that was heavily modified, or just heavily referenced.
http://i44.tinypic.com/rhj09f.jpg (sorry for not fixing the color of it to be unsaturated like my initial post).

Anyways, I apologize for any inconvenience I may have caused, and I want to thank you all for helping me to see I was wrong and also showing me how to retain proper proportions when scaling things.

I would have done this earlier, but I was gone out of town for awhile.

The first one doesn't match at all. I had to do the overlay myself to see it, but the lines near the bottom of the picture may look like they match, but in reality Kee's hips are more straight while the other person's is curved. The only reason they look like they match is because you can't tell which line belongs to which artist. Kee's supposed traced line was actually part of the other drawing.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg696/scaled.php?server=696&filename=overlayn.png&res=medium

Plus, it's a sketch, so it's a lot easier to say they do match since the lines are messy.

Could be because you didn't rotate it, and her trace was slightly rotated. Give it a tweak to the right and it matches the same lines perfectly.

Nope, I rotated it. I even got that line to match exactly except it threw the other parts of the supposed tracings off.

Then maybe you didn't resize it properly. There's no reason it should magically match in mine and not in anyone else's, especially when I used the lock aspect ratio shift key thing.

I've been trying to replicate yours by overlaying your original drawing with your comparison, and I can't get them to match no matter how hard I try. I think you accidentally distorted your own drawing a little bit. But I did put Kee's drawing exactly over the original and although they appear to match up even with the red lines, toggling it on and off, it's pretty clear the hip shapes are very different. My guess is your eyes tricked you and made you believe some of your lines were Kee's.

Here, I took Kee's original sketch, lined it up perfectly with your sample, inked it, then turned your example layer back on.
I followed the middle of the sketch where the sketch lines got thicker.

http://i42.tinypic.com/zufiaw.png

derp nvm someone did one better. xD

This is the last I am messing with this unless there is some extreme new development:

Example 6 again (http://www.spiffyspace.com/misc/example6acorn2.gif)
What I did here was
1) resize and rotate as best I could while constraining the proportions
2) delete all but the darkest lines on your picture
3) lighten the lines of both pictures to different colors
4) overlay them using "difference" filter to make the overlap areas light up

The areas that overlap exactly are bright green. Your lines are the dark purple, kee's lines are the lighter magenta.

What I hope this illustrates is that there is very little exact overlap. If you insist the angle of the thigh is a trace because your resized and rotated thin lines overlaps her sketchy thicker line and a tiny amount of the opposite hip overlap, then so be it. I don't feel like combing your gallery to cherry pick a similar pose/bodytype with a second artist to show you that's likely coincidence. Whatever it is, it's NOT a trace or any kind of copy so this is pretty much meaningless; if kee happens to like the way you draw bodytypes and happens to draw similar bodytypes/poses, that's art. Everything other than one angle of this entire pic and the width of the hips in one area less than a centimeter (on my screen) is different, including the angle of the hips, the overall pose, the rotation of the chest, the shapes she makes for her chest and hips, etc. All different from yours.

This is pretty much what I got. I suspect she's mistaking her own lines for Kee's since both lines are the same color. I thought they lined up pretty well too until I changed the line color.

I'm not mistaking anything, I can tell the difference between a sketch and sharp lineart.
Here it is in 3 different colors, still matching in the same areas.
http://i39.tinypic.com/r0vw4h.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/de6ycw.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/mil4kh.jpg

They still don't match exactly. I don't know what you see, but I can clearly see that they do not match line per line. They have the same general path, yes, but it's not an exact match.

Well obviously I can't force someone to see what I do, so let's just agree to disagree.

You should probably just let this go, people are going to think what they're going to think, going back and trying to force people to see what you see isn't going to get you any more support, and will probably loose you the people who *are* seeing what you're seeing.

I think your personal issues in this case are really clouding your better judgment along with friends who are backing you ( which is what friends are good at, even when its an ill advised idea). Really, you just need to stop, take a deep breath and back away from the situation.

Either you were originally sorry or you're not. Your apology hadn't sounded very apologetic (it was more of a passive aggressive insult to the artist in question >.>) and this just kinda clinches it. I hope that you realize it's time to step back and stop. Maybe they were heavily referenced but you've between given multiple lines of proof about how what you are looking at can be coincidence.

You aren't the victim of some massive conspiracy, I assure you. You keep typing about how we want to see you as bad, how she did this tracing to hurt you/your friend, about how people MADE you post here...honestly, those comments alone has made me never want to commission you, not making this post or anything. Walk away a while, take deep breaths...anything but dig your hole deeper. If you just stop people will respect you more than if you apologize over and over again and then stubbornly cling to being right.

I didn't insult the artist in my apology, neither here nor on FA, so I don't get where you're seeing this from.

I've provided new overlays (with fixed aspect ratio), and they are still being tossed out the window with "it's just SIMILAR", disregarding the fact that it's a perfect match. I do feel as if it's being wrongfully disregarded.

I honestly don't know what else to do or say because it's incredibly frustrating. I went to great lengths to properly fix the overlays and to respond to most of the posters here who are dissenting.

Even if it's only one part of the image, it's still a partial trace and shouldn't be discounted. Don't tracers usually go after areas that they repeatedly have problems with? In all these cases, it's the same area, the waistline/hips/torso. And artists DO have different styles for drawing torsos, so those who are saying that everyone draws torsos the exact same is using faulty logic, because everyone has their stylistic choices and what they perceive as beauty.

So.... were they a perfect match when they were distorted or a perfect match now?

You seem to think they line up "perfectly" even when they are different.

As I've repeatedly said, I didn't even notice the distortion.

I've admitted that the Ajna one is not a match and has been debunked.

The Dipper one of the girl sitting from the side also doesn't match perfectly, and either was a trace that was changed up to be harder to catch, or heavily referenced.

The hips/waist/rib off of my drawing still match completely, as well as the far shoulder , stomach/waist and ass off of one of Dipper's

You are making a serious accusation, and one that is apparently largely unfounded. That is a lot worse than calling someone a nasty name.

You have provided evidence, most people here have looked at it and said it does not line up perfectly and there is not enough area overlapping to make a determination of tracing. You a disregarding multiple opinions by other artists who don't have a dog in this fight.

Your response is just yelling at us about how well they line up, when we don't see it. That's not exactly a constructive dialogue you got going, coupled with the nasty passive-aggressive comments you've mad on FA.

Artists do go for areas where they have problems, but I have never seen an artist where they need the most help on waist and hip as they are simple, especially in the manner in which they're drawn here. While there will be some differences stylistically, they are far more consistent in this type of art then they are in say, Beauty and the Beast where the character have wildly different proportions and body type. When doing a similar body type in a similar style (what's happening here) there will be a fair amount of overlap, even when in a different pose, let alone a similar one.

I believe the saying "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" applies here.

Ooo! I hadn't heard that one, but I like it!

There's another version of it: "Give a small boy a hammer, and he will find that everything he encounters needs pounding"

It describes one kind of narrowness of thought. People who are excessively fond of a particular analytical scheme or problem-solving method--people who have only one tool--will construe any bit of reality as just the kind of thing to which their pet interpretation or solution applies.
**From the phrases.org.uk website.

That's a funny saying, I like it. And it really does fit in this case.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only