Odd question

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Does anyone have the Furbid account name of this person so I can pre-emptively ban her from bidding on my auctions?

Comments

[mix-hyenataur.livejournal.com]

*lawls*

[acrimonius.livejournal.com]

That artist is a lunatic. o_O

[the-snappy-wolf.livejournal.com]

^.O_o.^ Homg?

[silverfolfen.livejournal.com]

eh.. ok.

[schnee.livejournal.com]

Huh? Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but... why? o.o

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Just wow. Maybe this should also to to VCL horrors while we're at it? :P

[invaderluca.livejournal.com]

it's in regards to somethin with vcl_horrors.

[schnee.livejournal.com]

Mmm. I still don't get it, to be honest. :P

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

Hahahahaha! Oh jeeze XD What pic did she bid on?

[martes.livejournal.com]

I can think of a number of FurBid artists who would behave like that.

[stoneth.livejournal.com]

Personally I wouldn't care if Osama Jong Hitler was bidding on something I'd put on an auction. As long as I see the green, that's all that matters.

[dingybatty.livejournal.com]

seconded!!

[filthy-animal.livejournal.com]

This person needs a re-cap on what IS and ISN'T considered funny.

[xianjaguar.livejournal.com]

I DO! ---> kkatman

I banned her a few weeks ago from bidding on any of my auctions, because another artist (Sian_Silverhair) wrote about how bad she was and because Kkatman is a psycho deranged misogynist from hell. :P

Apparantly, Kkatman had bid on one of Sian's pieces, and paid right away (and Sian gave her positive feedback), but then, wanted Kkatman her money back and was being a bitch to Sian (no surprise there).

Check it out: http://www.furbid.ws/cgi-bin/auction/feedback.pl?usernum=6843&username=Sian_silverhair

You can email Sian and ask her about Kkatman. Her email is on her LJ user page.
http://sian-silverhair.livejournal.com/profile

[xianjaguar.livejournal.com]

You know, I used to think the same thing, til I ran across kkatman. She's a very special case... I wouldn't want any of my art going to her, ever, just on principle's sake. She should be locked up for life. (She's the very first person in fandom I've ever seen online that I feel this way about!)

Plus, she's a bad buyer. She totally gave Sian a load of crap about her auction after she paid.. she wanted her money back right away, and drama ensued.

[arrjaysketch.livejournal.com]

Quite simply, she was brought up on vcl_horrors. She apparently likes to hold grudges about ridiculous things. The person's art she was bidding on is a member of vcl_horrors. That is, Sian was one of the many rightfully making fun of Kkatman's pretensiousness and lousy art skill, and Kkatman's fragile, volatile ego couldn't handle it.

So, Kkatman childishly placed a bid on Sian's auction (http://www.furbid.ws/cgi-bin/auction/feedback.pl?usernum=6843&username=Sian_silverhair) just to take a stab at Sian.

Stupid, huh?

So yeah, I banninated KKatman from my journal too.

[schnee.livejournal.com]

Hmm... so she bid on the auction without actually intending to pay? That's not good, of course.

That being said, lousy art skills do not mean that it's right to make fun of someone. :P Even the best artists started from zero, and I think it's important to keep that in mind.

Being pretentious is another issue, of course...

[arrjaysketch.livejournal.com]

Oh, she was intending to pay. Kkatman was actually intending on giving as negative, scathing feedback as she could regardless of the outcome.

It is true that people shouldn't make fun of someone just because of their level of art skill. However, because Kkatmann is so pretentious (that is, expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature) and seems to be completely unaware that her own talent is lacking. If she were to suddenly be more humble and realize at the core why people are laughing at her, and say and mean things like, "Oh, I'm sorry, what do you think I am doing well with my art? What could I do better? Yeah, maybe the humor is a little off. What would improve it?" I think she would find more respect instead of lashing out in childish ways.

Also, on art skill but not relevant to the issue at hand, most artists knows and understand that most people start from zero. (A few lucky bastards are born with exceptional talent...) But, there's also a certain point where most drawings are "kept to yourself" vs. "posted on the Internet" KKatman is at a level where she can post her stuff online, but she could be doing better.

Because there are people out there with absolutely no tact, it is equally important to develop artistic skill as it is to toughen one's own skin. That is, if an artist wishes to improve at all they must accept negative feedback and criticism (both positive and negative). Not everyone is an artist, not everyone likes the same content or style, and some people are just plain vicious. Kkatman's skin is very thin, so it's very hard to show her why she needs improving.

So, when it's quite apparent she's not even listening in the first place, people just resort to making fun of her.

That still does not make it right, no. People could probably turn her around with a lot of patience and perseverance, but most people lack it for someone who is already starting out on a bad foot. Most people reserve this kind of energy for someone that is already a good friend, not a total stranger. Kkatman also probably has other issues, deeper issues that she may or may not be aware of, and those could take years to sort out, and it may not even be something random passerby could even handle. Those issues just happen to be manifesting themselves in this way.

[drake-anaya.livejournal.com]

someone posted it to vcl_horrors and got teh_permabanned for it (among other things, Kkatman's comics are about the only thing he'd ever post there).

[schnee.livejournal.com]

Oh, she was intending to pay. Kkatman was actually intending on giving as negative, scathing feedback as she could regardless of the outcome.

Mmm... OK, that's just as bad, of course. I can certainly understand why you (people in general, that is, not necessarily you in particular) wouldn't want her bid on your auctions, then.

That being said, the following are just general comments, not ones about this particular case. :)

But, there's also a certain point where most drawings are "kept to yourself" vs. "posted on the Internet" [...]

I'm not sure about that, actually. Sure, if you literally can't draw anything beyond stick figures, there's probably little use in posting it, but I don't think that there is any level at which drawings *should* (in the stricter sense) be kept private just because a lack of skill.

Of course, it also depends on where they are posted to. For example, my own attempts at drawing are really crappy. And while I haven't got them posted anywhere (with a few exceptions for a meme from last year), that's mostly because I'm too shy about them; I do realise that they suck and don't want to post them anywhere (and communities like vcl_horrors aren't exactly encouraging, either). But I don't think there would be anything wrong with posting them to an archive site like the VCL, or to my own journal, or similar things; I wouldn't force them on people (by posting them to art communities, for example), but I'd also expect that I won't be made fun off when they're posted to places where people will only come across them when they actively *look* for them.

That is, if an artist wishes to improve at all they must accept negative feedback and criticism (both positive and negative). Not everyone is an artist, not everyone likes the same content or style, and some people are just plain vicious.

I definitely agree about criticism - it's very important to realise that when someone points out flaws and room for improvement in your pieces, they're trying to help out. But not all criticism is good; there's constructive criticism, and there's destructive criticism, and the latter kind not only doesn't help, but usually will actually hinder improvement because the artist will just become self-conscious, unsure, or just plain frustrated.

So, yeah, it is important to have a thick skin; you shouldn't let it get to you when that happens. But that also doesn't mean that destructive (as opposed to constructive!) criticism is right.

And finally, regarding vcl_horrors in particular, it seems to me that often enough, it's not just the technical proficiency and/or pretentiousness (real or perceived) of people that's ridiculed but also the choice of subject matter - a kind of "omg look at that perv" thing. And that really rubs me the wrong way, too, especially when it comes from people who themselves would probably considered "deviant" or "strange" by a significant share of the general population; when you're already furry, gay, polyarmorous, into bondage or whatever yourself (again, this is supposed to be a general you, not a reference to you in particular), you should also have some tolerance for others. There's nothing wrong with saying "oh my god, ewwww", but if these things aren't forced on you, you shouldn't publicly rag on people for having different fetishes / sexual preferences / whatever.

Oh well. :)

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Well that was stupid of kkatman. I bet there will be a lot of people commissioning Sian now just to drown out the bitchy feedback with good comments.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

So wait, she made a comic about what a bitch she is to people on furbid?
This is the person who keeps making the comics about VCL horrors? I don't read the comm, I just know about the drama.

[celtic-tiger.livejournal.com]

mm. I like her art, personally, though her comic certainly sucks.

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

Ok that's the best combining of names ever.

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

She ruins her own reputation simply by keeping up that comic. Way to make a papertrail!

[ex-midnightf139.livejournal.com]

Wow... Just... wow. You'd think with this kind of reputation, she'd just... quit.

[art-batty.livejournal.com]

"There's nothing wrong with saying "oh my god, ewwww", but if these things aren't forced on you, you shouldn't publicly rag on people for having different fetishes / sexual preferences / whatever."

Why not? There is a difference between ratting about it on an LJ group and marching straight up t the artist (via e-mail AIM comment IRL whatever) and saying it to his/her face.

If you don't respect the opinions expressed, don't look at them. Why bother? Personally the horrors featured that are "OMG CAN'T DRAW LAWLS" just don't interest me. However, the horrors featured there that are, say, "Shitting dick nipples" esqe make me laugh my ass off. People can do what they want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else and I don't activley insult/hate these people, but hell, you post it publicly, I think it's funny, I'm gonna laugh. End of story.

[schnee.livejournal.com]

Oh, sure, you can do that. But if you reserve the right to publicly ridicule others for their fetishes or sexuality or whatever, then I also reserve the right to criticise you for that. If you dish out, you should also be able to take, shouldn't you? It's really the same thing - freedom of speech (no matter whether as a legal or as an ethical right) always cuts both ways:

If you don't respect the opinions expressed, don't look at them. Why bother?

If you don't respect the fetishes expressed, don't look at [the pictures]. Why bother?

but hell, you post it publicly, I think it's funny, I'm gonna laugh. End of story.

but hell, you ridicule it publicly, I think it's asinine, I'm gonna criticise. End of story.

I hope you see where I'm coming from. If you (this is more of a general "you", BTW, not necessarily you in particular) respect others, great; if you don't, then don't expect to get much respect back. And if you ridicule others, then don't complain when someone else doesn't agree with that ridiculing. It's really just the pot calling the kettle black.

[art-batty.livejournal.com]

"If you don't respect the fetishes expressed, don't look at [the pictures]. Why bother?"

Personal Entertainment. I think it's funny.

but hell, you ridicule it publicly, I think it's asinine, I'm gonna criticise. End of story.

And you have every right to. You got right on ahead.

I never said I couldn't take it. I do beleive I am being perfectly rational. Believe me, I'm not out to start a flame war, just trying to makea point. You knoe, being the devil's advocate that I am.

We're not all out to harrass the artist specifically, though, yes some are more immature than others (that includes community members AND featured artists) and this whole issue with kkatman starts.

In addition, it's a little harder to avoid "horrors" on VCL than it is to avoid the VCL_horrors community. At the VCL site itself, you have such a mixed bag of things, you have the kinds of art that just deserve to be looked at (http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Qrow/soevil.jpg) and you know, this. (http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/WelshWolf/Photoshop/Vore-ThingWeb.jpg)
On the other hand, if you go to VCL horrors, you know exactly what you are going to get, thus, it's easier to avoid.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

*laughs* How do you ban a buyer? I doubt I'll have any problems, but I'd like to cover my hide just incase. :D

Just found this.

[kkatman.livejournal.com]

For the record:

I bid on one of Sian's artwork. I did so in part because I really thought she did an excellent job on that artwork, and in part because I was trying to extend the proverbial "olive branch" after recent drama.

I won and paid promptly. I fully intended to give positive feedback... if Sian could just handle herself in a decent manner.

Sian couldn't. Apparently, she was deeply offended that I had won her auction rather than one of her internet friends. (In fact, I was the only one who bid on it, and even then only on its second listing.) She sent me a flaming email, stating she was only sending the picture to me out of "legal obligation" and ended it "fuck you".

At that point, I offered to let her simply keep the artwork and mark the letter with my money "return to sender". I was willing to eat the cost of the letter (which was sent registered mail) and chalk it up to having been a bad idea. If she had been content with that, I would have left her neutral feedback.

She wrote back that she would honor the sale. And then threatened that if I gave her negative feedback, she would use my offer to attempt to paint me as a deadbeat bidder.

At that point, I felt that I could no longer justify anything other than negative feedback. Sadly, Sian earned it.