[identity profile] kirinafa.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] artists_beware
WHO: Samoht-lion http://www.furaffinity.net/user/samoht-lion/

WHERE: (Warning, adult) http://www.furbuy.com/auctions/1032458.html

WHAT: Inked adult commission of two characters colored with background

WHEN: Started June 12, 2012, Payment on same day, Signs of trouble on June 25th.

PROOF: (See screenshots, Warning may contain adult content)

Edited so that people dont think i'm upset about the wait time :(

EXPLAIN:
In June 12 i won a auction for a commission, the artist said they would work on it while at AC (This was a lie). Time goes by and i ask for a update, which he sais he will do it this coming Friday. There is a lot of back and forth conversation, he forgets who i was and asks for the information again. After that first lie, and being forgotten, and the fact that he put me at the bottom of the commission list (all the commissions he got from AC were at the top).. i started to get worried. I emailed him every week to two weeks, and the replies came in excuses. Ranging from Jury duty, class finals, being sick and working midnight shift. I started to just not believe him, if he had so many life issues why was he posting commissions from AC and lots of artwork for a tshirt contest? July 7th comes and he gives me the final image, problem is the auction states that it would be colored and it was only inked. He told me he would color it, and on July 23rd he gives me the final image. The problem is, he colored my hair red. I sent him a frustrated email, explaining i was sick of the hole thing, i didn't even ask for a refund. I was upset at the hole situation. He told me he would give me a refund (a refund i didn't even ask for), and gave it to me on Aug. 2nd (Excluding shipping, which i had thought he just forgot). A month goes by, and on Aug. 24th my bfs mother picks up a package at the post office. It didn't have a name on it. She opens it, and behold, it was the ADULT picture in all its glory. He didn't discuss if i wanted the picture still, he didn't ask he just sent it and without a name at that.. almost a month after the fact. This makes me feel guilty because he gave me a refund and sent me the item (both things i never asked for, or was discussed)

Here is my list of why i believe i had so much trouble with this person:
1. He lied when stating he would work on it at ac, and countless other times. Instead when i ask for a update he gives me a excuse as to why he didn't work on it (even though he promised he would)
2. He forgot who i was, and asked what my commision was. This made me feel like i was worthless, that he didn't care enough to organize his commisions. I felt like i was a nothing.
3. He listed his auction wrong, making me have to ask him to do what the auction stated because my contest was for a full colored picture (Which made me feel worse)
4. He colored my hair wrong
5. He didn't put a name when he sent the item
6. He didn't tell me he was sending the item, which i would have said not to since he had already given me a refund

I am not demanding anything from him, i dont care about not recieving the shipping. I am simply telling others how he has treated my commision. I am upset, not about the time frame in which he completed it (Which was quick!) but the way he handled it. It was very unorganized and i wish it could have worked out better. I am very sorry that i seemed annoying in me asking for a update every 9-15 days, but you have to understand that i was scared. Scared that he was not going to finish the job from the signs i saw. Which are listed above. When i do papercraft commisions, people note me frequently about how their project is coming along. And i love it, because i can give them updates like "Oh, the head is almost done! Working on the legs now..." I like it because i can see how progress is being made and makes me even more excited for when its done. I was not demanding, rude, or upset whenever i asked for a update (except when i found out my hair wasn't colored right). The only reason i noted him frequently was because i had reason to. I wasn't noting him every other day, which i would find exessive.


Date: 2012-09-05 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ljmydayaway.livejournal.com
I kind of feel like you're overreacting, and I'm not sure why this is a beware, other than not putting a name on the package.

He got the art to you in a decent amount of time (6 weeks isn't an extremely long amount of time for art, especially when they have conventions and are going to school as well), it was very good, ambitious artwork for his skill level, and you got a refund and free traditional artwork.

As for the name on the address thing, how was he to know that it wasn't your address, it was your BF's mother's address? Usually if there's going to be a possibility of someone else opening the package, the person getting the package will say "Please address it to My_FA_Name, because otherwise my mom might open it." The artist isn't getting paid to be a mind reader.

The only thing to "beware" here is that he is a little too open with his clients, re: excuses. He seemed to reply quickly and post it quickly once it was worked on.

Date: 2012-09-05 07:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skulldog.livejournal.com
Seconding this. I had to double check the time frame, and I think you got a little overbearing for only a few weeks in.

Unless you cleared stated you wanted the art by X date, getting upset when something wasn't done in a three day period from the last email is a bit frustrating for any artist to put up with.

Date: 2012-09-05 07:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] copper-season.livejournal.com
Was there a definite time frame for the art to be finished? If not then I don't think that six weeks is that long to wait. I commissioned an artist for a character sketch and it took two months.

It could be a suck that no name was on the package but if he thought that it was your address, that can be viewed as an oversight. Not much of a beware here.

Date: 2012-09-05 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyroro.livejournal.com
I'm not going to jump all over the OP on this because there may have been a stated time frame he had given her. And we all get frustrated if we see commissions being bumped above ours...

For the "How was he supposed to know" It's kinda common practice to put who the package is for...that's flat out common sense, whether the contents are just regular or something that is wanting to not be shown to others in the house...

I dunno, I'm not going to fault the OP on this, they didn't think that something so common sense would need to be on a package...Maybe it seems the time frame is throwing people off but there may have been a different one set between the two. All in all some of this falls onto both parties.

Date: 2012-09-05 08:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
Feeling pretty neutral about this; six weeks isn't a long time at all, but.

OP, it's not your fault that he couldn't meet his own deadlines. It's nice that he's consistent on getting back to you in a timely manner, but you shouldn't have to hound him in regards to him missing his own deadlines.

It's also not your fault that he forgot what kind of commission it was to be. But he did make the effort to rectify that.

It's not your fault that he got the hair color wrong but that is a pretty minor detail.

And it's most certainly not your fault that he didn't put a name on the package- which should be pretty standard practice across the board. To be honest, I didn't even know you could send a package without a receiving name on it; even the junk mail sent to my company has the company's name in the name field.

For me, this is the most inexcusable aspect about this entire thing; how hard is it to ask for a name or if in doubt, use what is provided? Especially in regards to adult materials. Yeesh.

Date: 2012-09-05 08:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahtaur.livejournal.com
In my opinion you should be happy with a refund at all, it's not reasonable to expect your shipping fee back as well. He should not be out both the artwork and all the time he put into it, plus the money, plus the shipping fee. It was generous of him to provide you with that.

Your post does make you sound upset about the time frame, which I think people are picking up on.

I notice this part: "July 6th comes around and i ask for a update, to which he replies that i will have a drawing to review on Sunday. He gave the excuse that he was on midnight shift this week and jury duty. (Proof 5)

The next day comes and he gives me a image.(http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8363259/) I wasn't really happy with how it turned out, but i was glad it finally had some progress. He then works on 5 other con commisions and submits them (Even though he stated he would put mine at the top of the list) On July 8 he gave me a link with the "final image" which was only inked: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8365251/"

If I am reading that correctly, you prod him for an update on July 6, he answers, then provides a sketch for you to look over on July 7. Between the 7th and the 8th, when he shows you the inked piece, he uploads five commissions for other people. Correct?

If that is really the timeline, I have to say that you have really unrealistic expectations. Why is it so wrong for him to work on pieces at the same time? He could have had those five pieces in various stages of completion, submitted the sketch to you, then kept on working on them while awaiting your reply. It sounds like he answered you and updated you each time with less than 24 hours between each response. That is a pretty stellar response time. He could have even had all five of those pieces completed beforehand and simply scanned or uploaded them all at once.

I agree with others that an overall wait time of six weeks is not bad at all for a colour piece.

However, I do think that neither party is in the right. This artist comes off as inexperienced and unorganized. (For his sake I wish he had simply thought to colour over the character's red hair with purple, or blue to make purple, so that he wouldn't have felt obligated to refund.) I hope the artist will take this as a learning experience.

Date: 2012-09-05 09:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sbneko.livejournal.com
Personally, I'd say two weeks might be better. It does depend on the artist, but if you know the artist is fast, two weeks is a short time with ought feeling over bearing.

I work way faster then most and one week seems just a little bit too short due to things in real life, school and work and many other things.

Date: 2012-09-05 09:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trentxandrew.livejournal.com
In my opinion you should be happy with a refund at all, it's not reasonable to expect your shipping fee back as well. He should not be out both the artwork and all the time he put into it, plus the money, plus the shipping fee. It was generous of him to provide you with that.

But the commissioner didn't want the artwork. That's why she wanted her shipping money back. Honestly, the artist should have refunded half plus the whole shipping fee.

Date: 2012-09-05 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahtaur.livejournal.com
That would be refunding $10 of the entire cost of $15 when the artist finished the work -- which the artist did do. The only thing wrong with the art was the hair being the wrong colour. I just don't agree that's fair, or fair to ask for, even if the artist seemed willing enough to comply with the refund.

Date: 2012-09-05 10:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trunchbull.livejournal.com
It can get pretty annoying to have someone ask you every week about your art commission, especially if it takes time for them to work. I can see my self being pretty peeved at you if you did this to me (though i wouldn't mention it). it can add up to a very frustrated piece.

i dont believe you should have recieved a full refund. Thats not fair to the artist, who did what you wanted for the most part. If you are the one asking for the refund, and there is already work done, you are not entitled to a complete refund.

the one thing I am slapping my face at is with the forgetfullness of the artist. It is embarassing when you cannot even remember the name of your commissioner. the least this artist could have done was look through their notes with the commissioner's name. asking for details when you already have them is pretty lazy.
I accidentally did this to a commissioner by sending them someone elses sketch. it was so embarrassing, but the customer was ok with it. they were just concerned about the sketch being delivered safely to the original commisisoner. :)
Edited Date: 2012-09-05 10:15 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-09-06 12:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ljmydayaway.livejournal.com
They technically did exactly what you're suggesting. o _o;

Date: 2012-09-06 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ljmydayaway.livejournal.com
Just so you know, not all artists keep their list in the order the commissions are to be worked on next. Just because you're at the bottom of the list, doesn't mean your piece would be worked on last.

Date: 2012-09-06 01:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trentxandrew.livejournal.com
I glanced over the numbers and didn't notice until after I posted, haha.

Date: 2012-09-06 01:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marus-puppy.livejournal.com
It might be better to address people directly, rather than posting as a reply to the journal itself... The way you're doing it now, I think it's opening up more lines of conversation than needs be.

Date: 2012-09-06 05:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ljmydayaway.livejournal.com
It's cool. :3 That was a pretty funny coincidence.

Date: 2012-09-06 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ljmydayaway.livejournal.com
In the messages you posted, I don't see where he said "I'll have it done on x day." I see he says "I'll work on it on x day," that doesn't mean it'll be finished by then.

In all the messages you posted, it looks like his set one deadline that he missed, which he rectified as soon as he could. At no point did you request a deadline from him, as far as I can tell.

It seems like you're not going to bother to consider anything anyone here says. We are listening to you. That's why we're replying here to you.

I'm not sure what you want out of the artist? You said you'd be happy with all but a $5 refund, and you have it, AND the art, AND an inked version you can use (the digital file of the inked version), AND you're still not happy.

It's not really fair to the artist. I don't think he did much wrong (other than give excuses, he should have just told you that your art would be worked on when he could get to it), and there's no way to resolve this to your liking that's even remotely fair to the artist. Basically, you want everything for free, and that's not cool.

----------------
Adding this so I don't make another comment:

I can't post on your journal.

So I will say my piece here.

No one is "stuck" on how often you contacted the artist.

No one said you didn't deserve any refund at all.

I'm personally stuck on how you claim he wouldn't deliver the art. There's nothing the artist did that should have made you think that. He was always in communication with you, gave you updates, etc.

And how you didn't like the art at the sketch stage, but didn't tell the artist or give him a chance to fix it (at least as far as I can see).

That makes me think that nothing could have been done to make you happy. Whether he took 1 week or 6 weeks.
Edited Date: 2012-09-06 09:54 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-09-06 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enter-data-here.livejournal.com
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3822947/

She posted a nice journal complaining about the advice here.

Beware against herself.

Date: 2012-09-06 08:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sigilgoat.livejournal.com
Yep, taking that as most certainly a beware against the OP.

Date: 2012-09-06 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oceandezignz.livejournal.com
Agreed. Users here have every right to look at things from all angles. Even the bad ones.

Date: 2012-09-06 10:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arcticious.livejournal.com
I was on OP's side but now that journal has changed my mind. No point coming to a community that aims at grasping all aspects of a transactions, then being upset when they respond to the negatives. You've ended up with the art (even if you didn't want it) and a refund. I think that asking for updates every week or two wasn't too bad; but some may be rubbed the wrong way. That journal, honestly, was unnecessary and may only serve to present a beware against you.

Date: 2012-09-06 10:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sbneko.livejournal.com
Honestly, I doubt anyone is upset with you. We're all learning and people just want to give you advice on things you can change about yourself. Both commissioners and artists sometimes need someone to point out what's wrong. I wouldn't be where I am now if people didn't tell me "This is what you should do". I have anxiety as well, so I get where you're coming from and how to you, it sounds like insults and people angry, but it really isn't that way.

I know it's hard to fully believe this, but it is true, asking your watchers for opinions isn't always the best thing to do. Many, many watchers, especially commissioners, do not know what is right or wrong. The best thing to do is ask someone who does this work professionally, which is why AB is here as well. Not every advice will be correct, but majority of people here have been professionals for years and know the laws as well. Also, your watchers and friends care about you, it's normal for them to be on your side. I love my friends, but sometimes I need an outside opinion.

Date: 2012-09-06 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starcharmer.livejournal.com
I took it as a beware against herself from the first line I read...

In June 12 i won a auction for a commission, the artist said they would work on it while at AC (This was a lie).

I've never been to a con, but I've heard how harried artists [and regular con-goers] can get at those things. I don't think the artist should have told her that for sure [maybe should have said he'd TRY], but to accuse him of intentionally lying about it? lolt

Blocking OP.

Date: 2012-09-06 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starcharmer.livejournal.com
What people have said is that contacting someone once a week or more about a commission you have with them could get annoying. You're twisting words so you can pity yourself. People have also explained to you that they're merely giving you advice so you can be a better commissioner. You've also gotten plenty of sympathy from others...

But apparently that's not good enough for you? You really need to take a step back and look at this objectively.

It is also against the rules to remove a journal from this community and a request for such will not be honored.

Date: 2012-09-07 12:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayla-la.livejournal.com
People are annoyed because you blatantly misrepresented what was said here to you in order to gain sympathy. Please calm down, nobody hates you, but you are behaving poorly. When you post to AB, you need to be able to handle criticism on things you may have done wrong as well. Instead of dwelling on how it makes you feel, take it as an opportunity to learn how to handle things next time. That's valuable.

Date: 2012-09-07 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bladespark.livejournal.com
IMHO your journal there is full of language that's not neutral, it's slanted to make you look good and everybody else look bad. You don't just present facts.

For example, you call the artist a liar instead of just setting out what the artist did and didn't do and letting the readers decide if the artist is lying or not.

Or take things like "No matter how much explaining i did, no one over there understands." That's not a calm post asking for advice, that's your personal emotions, and it's frankly being every bit as negative towards us here as you feel we've been to you. I'd wager that most of us here understand exactly what you're explaining, we just don't agree. We're mostly artists here, we're seeing your side and the artist's side, and trying to be fair to both.

The journal you made isn't an advice journal, it's a "pity me, side with me, give me asspats and support" journal. If you really just wanted advice, you should post the facts, not try and make yourself come off as a hero and the artist (and the members of this community) as a villain.

Date: 2012-09-07 12:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taasla.livejournal.com
I don't see how the artist "lied" to you, and that's rubbing me the wrong way. Does it stink that they were unable to keep with their own deadlines? Yes. It doesn't make them a liar.

Jury duty? Night shift? These are pretty serious things and drain people. I don't blame him if he was behind!

I am not sure if you are new to commissioning people or not, but this seems pretty normal. I don't see much A_B worthy about the artist other than he seems to be new at this and is learning. Definitely not worth putting his name through the mud for. =\ Every time you contacted him, he responded and gave you an update promptly.

As for those other commissions? I personally hold about five or so commissions that I've completed along the way and upload them all at once to get maximum exposure. It doesn't mean that I did them all that one day.

Also, once a week may be a tad excessive depending on the artist.

Date: 2012-09-07 12:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taasla.livejournal.com
That's what kind of left me side-eyeing the whole post. I doubt the artist intentionally lied to the OP.

Date: 2012-09-07 01:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marus-puppy.livejournal.com
There are a lot of people who are aware of A_B and it's purpose; even though you didn't mention the community by name, most people will put two and two together.

We know you're not a bad person and I know how stressed you can become after posting someone on here, but please remember that you came looking for advice and that - as the adage goes - you ask advice from nine people and you'll get ten answers. Everyone has their own opinion on how things were handled and you don't have to listen to all or any of us. It's just hurtful to see journals like that were people make it sound like we're a bunch of jerks because we're... not.

Date: 2012-09-07 02:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kerstin-orion.livejournal.com
I honestly think the whole shipping thing is the main issue, myself. You weren't expecting to receive the piece, so you didn't think to verify shipping info with the artist, yet they shipped it anyway. I'd be horrified if my mom (or my spouse's mom) opened a smut picture I'd commissioned. Repeated missed (self-imposed) deadlines and incorrect details are also poor customer service, though on the other hand, the artist did refund most of what you paid.

I'd say this should be a lesson to the artist to pay better attention to details for a commission, and to not ship something without getting the information (and don't ship something that you've given a refund for, either).

Mod Post

Date: 2012-09-07 02:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kerstin-orion.livejournal.com
It appears your screencaps have disappeared during your edits. Please return the original information back to your post; you're allowed to add to posts, but don't take away critical information, especially your screencap proof.

If you need to know what your post originally said, you can find a screencap of it in our archive here:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8127/communitymoderation1346.png

Date: 2012-09-07 02:18 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Yeah, the shipping thing is the one bit I do agree is pretty out of line.

I mean... I've shipped stuff without a name before, but I wasn't shipping adult work, just plushes and such. An artist sending out x-rated material should probably exercise a little more care.

I don't know about the rest of the complaints though, it seems like a lot of fuss over not very much, especially after having gotten a refund.

Date: 2012-09-07 02:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bladespark.livejournal.com
Yeah, the shipping thing is the one bit I do agree is pretty out of line.

I mean... I've shipped stuff without a name before, but I wasn't shipping adult work, just plushes and such. An artist sending out x-rated material should probably exercise a little more care.

I don't know about the rest of the complaints though, it seems like a lot of fuss over not very much, especially after having gotten a refund.

Date: 2012-09-07 05:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arcticious.livejournal.com
Kay la summed up what I was thinking better than I could say. It's the misrepresentation that people are upset about, but no one hates you.

Date: 2012-09-07 05:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enter-data-here.livejournal.com
A_B is pretty well known and since your FA and LJ usernames are the same, it's easy to put 2+2 together.

You need a tougher skin and to be more careful to not twist others' words so carelessly. The post was a valid beware, no one is faulting you on that. But it really riles people up when you don't accurately account for a situation. I was actually very neutral about your attitude til I saw your journal, and I didn't even plan on commenting!

I don't hate you and neither does anyone else here. I don't think you were trying to be malicious, but you really need to chill out cause no one was picking sides. Also only one person used the word "annoying" and they said it "could" be annoying, not that you were.

In regards to the social anxiety.... I understand. I used to get all upset over how people liked or saw me online, that it would cause me anxiety, til I just STOPPED hanging out on the internet so much and interacted with real people. Only way I can tell you to get over that. Good luck.

Date: 2012-09-07 10:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] poizenkat.livejournal.com
I feel that you noted the artist too much. I understand that you thought they may forget you and all, but that doesn't make it any less annoying. I also think that you are getting way too emotional in this post. He made the mistake to color your fursona's hair wrong but...how wrong? How off is it from the reference you supplied? This is traditional art we're talking about, and traditional art has very limited colors. Perhaps it was the closest they had?
I don't even see what the point is on complaining about that since you didn't even ask the artist to fix it. Shy or not, social anxiety or not, you should have asked for it to be fixed if you were THAT upset over it. I personally have extremely bad social anxiety to the point that I have in the past not left my house for a week, but when I'm commissioning someone I know that I MUST tell them if anything is wrong. Artists don't read minds.
I also see the issue of them leaving your name out on the packages. Yes, that is a big problem and I don't understand why the artist would do that. On the other hand, you are complaining about getting a free physical item. If you do not want it as badly as you're saying, then auction it off, give it away, or throw it away.

Date: 2012-09-07 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sbneko.livejournal.com
Actually, now that I take a good look at the hair, I think the red is shading.

The highlights are the same colour as the pinkish purple markings, and the OP's character's hair is the same color as those markings. Maybe they didn't have a darker purple for the shading. For soft shading, I used to shade red using purple, so maybe they did the reverse. But I can see how it'll look wrong on first glance.

But at the same time, it's possible that it looks more purple in person, sometimes scanners do that. OP, you said it got delivered to your BF's mother, did you see the image in person or only her?

Date: 2012-09-08 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sintocat.livejournal.com
Why were all the screen caps taken away? That doesn't help your case if you did this to try and close the journal.

I can't honestly tell you if the artist was out of line because I can't see the original proof. But due to the conduct you've shown thus far (with comments here and your journal) I think you need to chill out. You didn't give him a deadline, there for he doesn't have to finish it until he has time. If you asked him for a time frame of 5 weeks and it wasn't then, then it's a beware.

Personally though, I don't think I would do business with you until you learn how to handle business transactions a little better. Beware with OP and artist with this one.

Date: 2012-09-21 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gluttonousangel.livejournal.com
"A commission is a contract for a product. You are within your rights to request status updates. A friend of mine in the UK got so fed up at the same situation that he wrote up terms any artist would have to agree to in order to get commissioned by him."

I laughed pretty hard at this, I won't lie.

Date: 2012-09-28 02:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] o0syringes0o.livejournal.com
I read most of your explanation, but it started to sound like you were rambling on and on about the same thing. I honestly think that this doesn't belong here on artists beware. You got your stuff finished, he obviously understood the trouble and got things done. Its not like he ignored you for months and never gave you anything. Just sounds like he wasnt too organized at the time. Really nothing compared to what I have seen here on artists beware.

Date: 2012-10-05 04:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shukivengeance.livejournal.com
Hi, this is a second reminder from a mod to please put the screenshots back into your post. You've had almost a month to comply with the original request and failed to, so consider this your first official warn in the community and it may also affect the likelihood of any further posts from you being approved.

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