Shipping and when does it become overcharging?

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Thought I'd just toss this out, since it's been on my mind since I shipped out some art this morning.

How fair is fair when it comes to what you charge for shipping? Is there some point where adding a little extra beyond the exact costs of the mailer, and shipment is unfair to the customer?

I ask this because I charge a flat fee of $6 for most shipping. $2.50 for the waterproof mailers I use + $2.70 or so for the actual mailing cost = $5.20

Only today I noticed a mailer went to Canada for only $1.70. So I ended up with about $1.50 over charge. I shrugged it off and considered it fee for the long walk I take to get to the post office each time I mail stuff.

As both buyers and dealers, what are your views on a little 'extra' on shipping?

Comments

[thaily.livejournal.com]

If it's a buck or so more I don't mind, it's not always easy to estimate exactly how much shipping will cost.
You may need new envelopes, your normal ones may be out of stick and you'll need more expensive ones. You may need to get cardboard for backing or a new roll of tape or something, a tiny margin for such events isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned.
I think all but the most whiny nitpicky will agree, a dollar more or less for a $50+ commission doesn't really matter.

[xianjaguar.livejournal.com]

A 'little' extra is reasonable. Most artists have to pay for: The mailer to mail the art in. The gas to get to the post office. Your time at the post office. The gas to get back home. (Ok, in your case it was a walk, but for me, I live 20 miles away from the nearest post office!)

Also, Artist's Beware INDEED: The post office is raising its rates substantially on May 14th. Regular domestic letter stamps are only going up 2 cents, but Priority Mail shipping is going up by a LOT. (55 cents or more.)
And they're changing the entire structure for shipping packages too.
http://pe.usps.com/RateCase2007/DMM300_HTML/dmm300_landing.htm

Also, the link right to the priority mail section:
http://pe.usps.com/RateCase2007/DMM300_HTML/123.htm

Needless to say, everyone who ships a lot isn't too thrilled about this. :/

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Totally not looking forward to that change, urg..
I use to upgrade mailed commission work to priority at the cost of first class. Now I won't be able to without really losing a fair bit of money each time.

That that the pile of 2cent stamps I'm dealing.

[stolenmilkcrate.livejournal.com]

I just overcharged on shipping to Canada too! It was a rolled tube, so I expected it to be around parcel-cost, but it ended up only being $2 or so, and I had charged $7 shipping, so I refunded the buyer $4. *shrug* A dollar or two, I wouldn't worry about, but if you have an easy way to refund like Paypal, more than that can be shot right back to the buyer pretty simply, and it kinda gives them a little more to tell their friends about what a nice honest person you are :)

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Did the shipping to Canada drop in price or something? I mean, I've done a lot of shipping there and I swear it's always been about $2.20 for a standard mailer.

Yeah, I've had a few times where I overcharged quite a few dollars for boxed items, and in that case I did refund the money to the buyer.

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

You know what? I am only upset at overcharging if the package is really shoddily done.

I charge $4-5 shipping to the US for my cards (I combine shipping) but for that they get card top loaders. Wrapped in cardboard, sealed with tape, then put into a bubble envelope and sealed with more tape. Then I have to full out a declaration form and walk to the post office.

That's worth the extra money and I haven't had any complaints :)

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I still have one of your bubblewrap/etc. envelopes from way back, I can testify :3

[martes.livejournal.com]

I usually round up to the nearest dollar, but that's it. I hate sellers who sell stuff really cheap and try to make their cost back by gouging for postage. A lot of sellers do that on EBay.

[tizzrah.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that too, it's really irritating. You'll see a $2 DVD going for $8 shipping. Um, what?

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

I usually don't worry too much, unless it's hugely overcharged in comparison with the overall price. My sister has a sort of 'eBay business' going, and while she does try to calculate exact postage using the USPS website, she usually adds about $.40 extra or more as a 'handling fee' (she also does this to round out the shipping charge, because half or whole dollars are easier to deal with than some odd change). Nobody's complained in the...two or three years she's done this.

[theblackdragon.livejournal.com]

as a buyer, so long as it sounds reasonable in relation to what i'm buying, it's cool with me. i'd pay $12-14 for shipping from hong kong for a package of makeup (insurance included), but i'd probably raise an eyebrow if the same price was charged to ship an art card or a conbadge or something from the next state over, lol.

also, flat fees don't bother me. if everyone else is paying the same amount too, and it sounds like a reasonable charge for shipping, then whatev', y'know?

[rojadrik.livejournal.com]

I can agree with many comments about the quality of packaging. If it is packed well, I have no problem about paying a few dollars more. If I just get it in a plain manilla envelope and I paid $7 for it, I'll be pretty pissed.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

I agree...I've had a few items, all ebayed, that I ended up paying over $8 for shipping. I sort of expect it to come fast and well boxed at that price, but instead I got bubble mailer, three weeks later.

[rakshepsaar.livejournal.com]

All I know is that I'm going to be making myself a chart of how much it generally costs from where I am to other countries, and people in those countries will be charged a flat rate + $.50 (because I go to such lengths to secure the art). I made the mistake of just charging $2 flat shipping on a $20 commission, and one going to Australia cost $7 to ship it! I had no clue it cost so much. XD

The artists I've commissioned have all included shipping in the prices (usually just scaled up $5, and I don't mind that because the pieces have generally been very securely packaged. I'd only mind it if it wasn't mailed well.

[birdrock.livejournal.com]

I live more or less in the middle of the US, so I charge a flat fee for the entire United States and figure it into the advertised cost of the item (be it a print, eBay item, etc.). The flat fee is usually a little more than it costs to ship, but usually not more than a dollar. That way, when I say on my website that a certain print costs $15, it really is $15. For international shipping I use carrier-provided shipping calculators which are found on their websites and charge actual shipping.

In my opinion the seller should always say what the total cost will be before the buyer agrees to buy anything. That way, if the buyer feels something is unfair, he or she can back out of the deal. I've found that it's really not worth haggling over what amounts to be a $1-$2 difference. They can buy somebody else's prints and be somebody else's problem!

I don't mind when eBay sellers charge a couple extra dollars if the shipping is prompt and the packaging is of good quality. If someone sends a tattered box and pads it up with a few limp packing peanuts, but still overcharges for shipping, that's when I get annoyed and leave neutral feedback.

[beetlecat.livejournal.com]

I charge exact shipping (calculated online using the recipient's state or postal code) and then round it up to the nearest $5 mark. So if it's calculated as $23.91, I charge a flat $25.00.

This covers my materials costs as well as helping if the shipping costs end up being more than calculated. And (as my pries are all whole numbers) it makes it easier to add and keep track of.

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

I think about 1 dollar per every 10 is an appropriate estimate, taking in account for variances.
I charge 50 bucks for shipping inside of the US(For 2-3 packages weighing anywhere from 15 to 50 pounds each). With such a wide variation of postage(Anywhere from 17 to in excess of 100, but rarely), I just charge a flat 50. Anything over 5 dollars in overcharge I refund.
Although once I did have someone complain because I shipped a package and charged them 75, but it came out to 72.80 >,> I ain't psychic. Having to refund 2.20 was irritating.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I would have been tempted to ship them the 2.20 in pennies.
Without postage so they have to pick up the tab.

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

I mail my stuff just in manilla envelopes because...I've never had any complaints from doing it that way. If it's an extremely important "PLEASE DO NOT BEND OR I'LL SLIT YOUR THROAT" kind of package, and it's going to someone's P.O Box, I look for a cut of cardboard to put in there.

I charge...$1 for shipping in the US for things like single pictures and conbadges/artcards. If someone has an unusually heavy package, I raise the price a little.
If anyone ever asked for a better shipping package than an envelope, then I would oblige and raise the price accordingly, but so far...no one really has.
International shipping is $5 from me [$3 to Canada] and...conbadges are $3, too, just because that's my way to secretly charge for lamination. P:

On the side of the buyer...I don't really mind paying shipping. Usually, it's only like, $3-5, and I hardly buy anything anyway. When it's art commissions I'm buying, I really don't mind paying the extra because...furries charge WAY CHEAP for their artworks anyway.

On a side note, I'm thinking about charging $3 as a supply fee on my commissions. You know, to purchase new markers, pencils, inking pens [the pens I buy are NOT CHEAP D:] and paper...do you think that would be ethical or would people start gouging my eyes out?
It's actually in effect right now, and I mention it on my commission info page, but I always forget to charge it, so no one really knows about it.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Actually it sounds like your undercharging yourself to begin with. If you feel you need to add in a fee for supplies, you need to set the actual commissions prices higher, factor in both time and supplies per hour.

[katzenflammen.livejournal.com]

I guess i'm just too nice because i dont even charge for shipping.

but then again i rarely get commisions so its not like i'm really losing any money *shrug*

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

That's just criminal. Your art seems better than most ones I see around.

[gothwings.livejournal.com]

I charge a flat rate but then that's because all items I send are the same size and weight so I *know* what things cost. My biggest problem is that I post from the UK to the USA so my prices can seem a bit steep thanks to the exchange rate.

If I'm not sure, I go to the local PO and check before posting items but often, if the order is above $50.00 USD I don't charge any postage anyway.

My prices are currently $4.00 USD for standard sized artwork but that's going to have to go up as lately postage prices have risen by about 8 pence (16 cents) Which is a nuisance.

Essentially, charge fair, but don't charge extra postage to earn more money like so many unethical eBay sellers do. :)

[anarchicq.livejournal.com]

I charge a shipping fee of $5.00, US or CA. Either or.
This covers a plain Manila envelope, cardboard backing, postage and a clear binder slip cover page thing.

If I am comissioning someone, I do not mind shipping being 2-3 dollars off or extra. I consider it a tip to the artist.

[growly.livejournal.com]

I usually charge around $5-6 for shipping artwork... this covers postage, the envelope, the foamcore I always back it with, and the effort of cutting the foamcore, which is always a pain in the ass for me.
I don't see anything wrong with overcharging slightly, though the other day I greatly overestimated shipping for a tail to France, so I just reimbursed the guy $9. That's quite a bit too much to just pocket, I think.

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

Well, I have a small eBay business of my own, so I can relate to what you're experiencing. My rates are these:

Small, first class envelopes: $3.50. This covers the bubble mailer, the postage, and the delivery confirmation, plus a bit extra.

Priority Mail (up to a pound): $5.50 - $7.50 depending on the item. Sometimes I end up paying more, but that's okay.

I do get tons of people complaining when I want to send heavy stuff. "What do you mean this package costs $20 to ship?!" Uh, it's twenty pounds of games, plus the box.

But yeah, those damn rate hikes are going to KILL my business. Damn Post Office...

[lilangelwings.livejournal.com]

I usually charge a few extra dollars for the padded envelopes or tubes that I need to buy to ship in.

[atateatarin.livejournal.com]

When I was still doing plushie commissions I used to charge a flat rate, mainly to protect myself. Because I live in Australia and all of my commissioners were in the States, shipping was pricy as is but then Auspost started gettin shifty on me. I had been making them long enough to know what they'd weigh in the end and I'd make estimates based on the Auspost website's calculator, and even though I was spot on the mark give or take 50grams, sometimes the postage was a whole $10, even $15 more than the website quoted, and that was money that had to come out of my pocket. That and their boxes I swear were lined with lead, because they always doubled the weight whereas my boxes were barely skin off the nose. It was part of the reason I decided not to do them anymore, too. I got sick of them, my work suffered because of that and the last two or three that I made sucked in comparison to the stuff I did before.

So in effect, the post office killed what was left of my already tattered motivation, and I stopped taking them altogether.


On that note, I hate the price of postage, especially international postage. But all the same, I don't generally mind if I get charged a flat rate because I understand why people charge them. Of course, if I paid $20 postage and it only cost $10, my nose'd feel a bit put out of joint, and I might want to know where the other $10 went (but if there's a reasonable reason then I'm always a reasonable person).

You'll encounter folks who won't agree, but the majority of folks, especially those who tend to get a lot of stuff shipped to them, will understand perfectly in my opinion.

[ksharra.livejournal.com]

I usually try to stick to a reasonable flat rate. With the cost of envelopes, cost of shipping, cost of insurance, and cost of gas, I figure $3 for shipping a 9x12" print/artwork/badge within the US is fair. Add a little extra for international, costs more and gotta fill out those silly customs things. *shrug*

As long as it's not a major cost (like shipping a heavy package or such) estimating shipping should be fine, as long as it's within just a couple bucks. Otherwise, I'd have to start charging for the time it takes to calculate the cost of envelope/shipping/gas/insurance/time... *laughs* Just kidding.

If you're charging twice+ the actual cost for shipping though, then you might want to rethink your flat rate.

[loregryph.livejournal.com]

For myself, I do not use flat rates for shipping and do calculations on a per-shipment basis due to how all over the place the pricing is. Canada Post is not exactly cheap and I frequently feel bad about how much shipping ends up being on larger items. However, I welcome people emailing ahead of time to ask for a shipping quote. That seems fair to me - if you're afraid to ask when I say right in an auction that shipping will be determined based on your location, then it's your fault for bidding without getting a quote first.

[nesting.livejournal.com]

I charge a flat 3 bucks for shipping. I package drawings in a plastic slip, taped inbetween two pieces of cardboard and wrapped in brown paper. First class, they usually get sent out for 1.50-3.00.

[rs-studios.livejournal.com]

i always ship in a secure well sealed box. all air cavities inside filled and wrapped for waterproofness. i always include tracking and full cost insurance.

but then i find out the exact cost and charge only that with customers last payment. so first payment actually has all shipping costs in it:P

[larylich.livejournal.com]

It's the cost of gas and time. Both are an expense.

I put on a little on my ebay auctions but people are told how much shipping will be before hand and can make informed choices.