To end the Jace issue

[madd-tom-kit.livejournal.com]

Well since there's such an issue of lots of people getting taken for a ride by Jace I'm wondering if it's enough to do group legal action.... I dunno if it'd be called a class action but i'm sure everyone involved could afford the cost of the lawyer if we all pitched in. Suggestions?

Comments

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Suing people is usually rather pointless unless they have significant assets.

[madd-tom-kit.livejournal.com]

the government can make it so it comes out of his paychecks

[doc-moreau.livejournal.com]

I think that's going a bit far. Quite a bit perhaps.

[madd-tom-kit.livejournal.com]

How else do you calm a thief?

[doc-moreau.livejournal.com]

Well, you can try it, but i highly doubt you'll accomplish anything. Is the hassle really worth it?
Best thing to do is learn from it and move on, i'd say.

[madd-tom-kit.livejournal.com]

And he'll get away scott free and steal more people's money and not give a hoot....

[martes.livejournal.com]

Unless there's a paper trail saying who's owed what by whom, it's difficult to win a court case.

Of course, you could always try small-claims court. As far as I know you don't need a lawyer for that.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Does Jace attend conventions?
Does he take commissions there?

If you want to prevent him from conning more people out of their money you might want to ask the staff of conventions not to give him a table in the dealer's den or artist alley if he finds more victims there.
If he's banned from even one convention it might send a message that we're tired of his shit.

[madd-tom-kit.livejournal.com]

only going to conventions in CA that I know of

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

Still, I think it's worth a shot -- keep an eye on his journals or wherever he might announce which cons he's going to, and then contact the staff. I presume he takes commissions and/or sells artwork at cons, so it should at least have some financial impact on him and show him he needs to get his act together.

The group legal action is also a good idea, but this con thing may be worth trying as well, since I'd imagine it'd take a while to put things in motion legally.

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

Yeah, cause that totally worked with Starfinder.

[madd-tom-kit.livejournal.com]

So what is your fix for the problem then?

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

Well, in my experience when you have a fuck up on this level...there IS no fix to the problem.

You suck it up, you move on, and warn others. That's honestly about all you can do.

[madd-tom-kit.livejournal.com]

Yes lets all take one in the anus because we can 't do anything about it!....

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

::laughs:: Yeah, let's do a class action lawsuit against a furry artist, who's total is probably less than a few grand. AMIRITE?

No wonder the rest of the world things we're sue happy and silly.

Hey, put up the lawyer fees...and...well, you'll be in the hole... EVEN if you had a $500 commission (And from what I see, this guy's art isn't work five hundred) well, that pays an hour of lawyer fees.

What you have to weigh, is it worth your time, and effort, and Cash...

Or do you just suck it up, move on, and hope you get your shit?

Myself, I'd suck it up, tell the world he sucks ass.

[llyander.livejournal.com]

I just don't get the whole Jace thing, I don't get what goes on in his head.

I'll admit he's stiffed me on commissions. Twice. The first time he DID compensate me quite adequately in the end, but the second time? Here we are a good year and a half after I completed the story he requested, and I've not seen any sign of the art he said he was going to do for me in return.

And yet he continues to produce art for other folks. I know he does because I see it on FA every couple of weeks or so.

Now I've spoken to Jace on more than one occasion, and I think he's a nice guy, so I don't like to say bad things about him, but the truth is I simply don't understand this. He takes people's money, he says he's going to provide the art in return and then... Nothing. Excuse after excuse after excuse for why he can't do it and I just don't get it.

I don't take writing commissions very often. I don't take them because I know my Muse is an erratic bitch at the best of times and it could be months if not years before I get around to completing a request, so I steer clear of them entirely except for VERY rare instances.

If Jace has a problem with producing to order, which he pretty obviously seems to, then if I was him I would seriously stop taking commissions. Fess up, return people's money and admit that you can't churn out art like people want.

Before his reputation's utterly destroyed and before people really do start taking legal action against him. I think getting a lawyer involved is extreme but... What else can you do? You ask nicely, you ask nicely some more and you get nowhere so what other options DO you have beyond taking legal advice?

I dunno if you read this community, Jace, but seriously, as a friend, I'm telling you that you need to sort this out. Stop fobbing people off and either give them what you said you would, or return their money.

[ashendon.livejournal.com]

He still owes me, the important part is to keep the pressure on him. Speak to moderators to get him banned from art websites, i.e. FA, bombard his email until you get a response and if all else fails..well i do have his physical address.

[faithry.livejournal.com]

Hang up a big sign in the dealer's den of a con he goes to displaying a big-lettered warning about his commissioning behaviour. 8>

Hopefully this will be a constructive, or perceived as, post.

[flammie.livejournal.com]

Disclaimer: IANAL

For one, most cons will not want to be responsible for someone they rented a table to in the Dealer's Den. There maybe one or so cons that are willing to govern based on reputation, but by giving a damn or showing they might be interested in controlling who gets a table could legitimately open them up to a whole barrage of possible litigation from some sue happy furson who may of gotten ripped off at their con by someone they didn't reject from the dealer's den for bad business practices.

2: It only takes two to start a class action suit. More importantly speaking, it would definitely do some damage to him as far as his future would go considering the court would probably try to force him into some kind of payment plan to pay off the damages. Not meeting it could result in some jail time or such. I'm not really sure about this part really, but I know that it wouldn't be pretty. It's even possible to garnish wages over this or even monitor any bank accounts opened in his name for cash flow to be zapped by a lawyer.

3: While the court is used to resolve some issues that can't be resolved on a civil level, I do hope you realize that if you are successful (In this case I'm certain the court would rule in the plantiff's favor over this issue.) that each person involved in the class action would be getting a hefty sum of 10 bucks or less or slightly more. Lawyer's often take more than they should get in any situation involved in a class action. Of course, it is hard to squeeze blood out of a turnip, no? Nor is it easy to get money from a broke artist.

4: It would be far more worth while to actually pay a lawyer X amount of money to 'discover' Jace's real address and such, perhaps easily done by subpoenaing a con he had recently went to that required him to give his correct address. The result? You now have a location you can mail a summons to small claims court. This would by far be the cheapest and the most worthwhile, especially if many people at once sent the summons. This would not only make it very costly for him since there would be travel costs but it would also interrupt his normal life to a greater extent if there were enough requests.



Personally, I feel that this would be dumb to do since only a few people may of given him nearly a thousand dollars. You might see a tiny profit margin from this (Or less of a loss depending on how you look at it.) and would merely cause him to go into harder hiding if that is what he is doing currently.


I don't mean Jace any harm by this, but I have this info because there is another artist I did pay a good chunk of money to I'm considering for this action since the way they treat commissioners is really really appalling.

Some of the things the said artist I'm not naming yet had posted art he had done for others and left pretty degrading commentary about the work he had been paid in good faith to do professionally. On top of that, they continue to take more commissions in and rarely return anything that is not of their own fetish. I've had to bribe that artist once to get them to finish the first set of art I paid for with an express charge, and now for the rest, I've tried to negotiate something else to be drawn and he just keeps going offline.

Re: Hopefully this will be a constructive, or perceived as, post.

[madd-tom-kit.livejournal.com]

well after almost 5 years he drew a pencil pic but said he won't be able to do anything till march again....well atleast it's something i just keep trying