[identity profile] frank05.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] artists_beware
Hey guys I know this is typically a group for more personal commissions, but I have a story to share that I think all aspiring artists should know before they get out there and start selling their work in a commercial sense.

submitted for the approval of the midnight society, I call this story

So I was recently commissioned to do a novel cover illustration. Yay! Hurray! My first (well... like third) real gig! This is aaaawesome money money money!
I finish the thing in record time, despite the fact that I sat in front of my computer for two days corresponding through e-mail doing edit after edit after edit

(lesson number 1: when doing up a contract, specify in said contract how many edits the client is entitled to. I spent 2 days of my life editing and got no bonus from that. The client could have essentially gotten me to do 5 images via strategic "editing" and I would have had to do it because I didn't specify otherwise)

the client loved it! Hurray! Client is happy, time to get paid now, m i rite? Oh wait... wait a minute, we never talked about how much I was getting paid for this... how much am i getting paid for this?

(lesson number 2: before drawing so much as a line, discuss what you are being compensated and ensure that you feel you are getting what you deserve/it's worth your time)

500$. eee... i feel sort of like i deserve a little more. I am going to talk to the client about this.
"dear client, I understand I didn't sign a contract with you, I don't expect to be compensated any more than this, however I will warn you that in any future projects, I am going to charge a bit more." [a lot of changes made, it was way more professional sounding than this]
marketing guy who has been hired by client: DO NOT SPEAK TO CLIENT! YOU ARE NOT BEING PROFESSIONAL, CONTRACT IS BETWEEN MY FIRM AND YOUR AGENT, NOT YOU AND THE CLIENT

 (lesson number 3: determine who it is that you are working with, make sure it's clear. I was being told all along that the client was the authors, tuns out that they were the client of my client. I am still confused by this to this day since it was them I was talking to all along about editing and stuff, but oh wells! This would have been made clear if a contract had been drafted)

me: contract? wwwhhhhaaaaaat???? I didn't sign anything
marketing guy: oh yes, and also, cover illustration credits are being given to my firm, plus your name at the end.
me: WHWHHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAATTT??? But this is how i gets more jobs! I want people looking for me through ME not through your firm! what is going on here?

so I was just sort of like "eh, whatever. jobs over, 500$ is not bad, I am going to just post this stuff on my website and hopefully attract the attention of more potential buyers
marketing guy: by posting this image on your website you are infringing on the copyright of the image which is held by the company
me: WHAHAHAHAHAAAAT?

(lesson number 4: before getting into this stuff, know what your rights are as an artist, know what the clients rights are. understand what the different rights mean. for example, if a client specifies in a contract that they are buying out all of the rights to an image, that makes the image theirs, you cannot repost it, you can't even use it in your portfolio, it now belongs to them, and they can edit it and everything. if you sell them one-time rights, it's still yours, you can put it wherever you want. there are other types of rights too, look em up on the internet and make sure you watch for them in contracts so you don't screw yourself over.)

since of course I didn't sign a contract, the full rights to the image were still mine, so I simply removed the title of the book from the jpg name and continued to post them all over the internet.

so as you can see, this has been a giant mess. a mess that could have been avoided if i had just done a little research. I am going to try to save you all some future heartache. CONTRACTS! CONTRACTS CONTRACTS CONTRACTS! know them, love them, do not draw a single thing before you've agreed to, signed one and made hundreds of copies of it so you can pull it out and shove it down people's throats if they question it at all.

ARTISTS BEWARE! DON'T DO FREELANCING STUFF WITHOUT DRAFTING UP A CONTRACT FOR YOURSELF!
love, always, beavotron.

Date: 2007-12-05 12:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oolong.livejournal.com
you forgot 'toot toot'

Date: 2007-12-05 02:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thaily.livejournal.com
Wow, I hope you "accidentally" CC'd that immature comment to the client so they know who they're doing business with and how they treat the artists drawing their cover art?

Date: 2007-12-05 05:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aaaamory.livejournal.com
I can't help but think that would be a very childish and unprofessional move.

Date: 2007-12-05 10:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thaily.livejournal.com
Which he was accused of being anyway, I don't mind if people like the marketing guy reap what they sow. ;P
Edited Date: 2007-12-05 10:46 am (UTC)

Date: 2007-12-05 03:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aaaamory.livejournal.com
Professionals (as in those that act professional) don't play those kinds of games. Being accused of childishness is not permission to be childish. And you will know the truth, anyway, and falling for this sounds like something that someone who doesn't have much respect for themselves would do.

By the way, tooting your own horn is not a bad thing to be called. It's exactly what you were doing, and I would, and we have the right to brag now and then.

Date: 2007-12-05 10:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thaily.livejournal.com
Professionals don't always act professional, as the OP's employer has proven.

Date: 2007-12-05 11:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aaaamory.livejournal.com
Of course he wasn't acting professionally. Your comment isn't a correction of something that I said, if you think you're correcting me. Maybe my sentence should have been, "Professionals (that act professional) don't play those kinds of games."

Date: 2007-12-05 12:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nambroth.livejournal.com
This story made me writhe! The agony! Contracts are one of those horrible yet necessary evils. Any artist that is going to do freelance- or really, any kind of "you get money to do specific art" work should sit down for a day or two and learn to read and write contracts. This is a pain in the ass and costs you hours of your life you can't get back- but it could save you thousands of dollars and weeks of your life in frustration in the long run! :}

Date: 2007-12-05 01:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thaily.livejournal.com
Did you see a contract?
If not, you didn't technically sign away ANY rights to the image, much less the exclusive rights of reposting.

This does clearly illustrate the need of coming to a clear agreement before any work is done :/
Thanks for sharing your horror story :/
Edited Date: 2007-12-05 01:37 am (UTC)

Date: 2007-12-05 03:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badkitty.livejournal.com
i completely agree with the above stated :T
it's really awful that they were so unprofessional after accusing you of such!

Date: 2007-12-05 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marymouse.livejournal.com
Man, good things to think about for sure!

I get screwed over on a much smaller scale from time to time, and have learned to be more upfront and less shy about what I require, etc. However, I'm still kinda' scared of what goes into a professional agreement.

Would anyone reading this perhaps know of a sample contract of sorts for such matters? I'm curious to know what exactly needs to be put into one. I'll do research on my own, too. :)

Date: 2007-12-05 02:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thaily.livejournal.com
Seconding the request for sample contracts please!

Date: 2007-12-05 02:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anarchicq.livejournal.com
Yes, me too please!
AnarchicQ at Gmail dot com

Date: 2007-12-05 02:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dae.livejournal.com
Thirded! I could really use at least some kind of basis upon which to build a contract of my own. My email is wantonbass at gmail dot com.

Date: 2007-12-05 05:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badkitty.livejournal.com
fourthed! (is that even a real word?)
sugarhighstudios at gmail dot com

Date: 2007-12-05 09:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] findmealone.livejournal.com
Fiftheredred~ *unties tongue*
rebecca at rebeccaholder dot com :)

Date: 2007-12-05 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fyphfoko.livejournal.com
i'm going to say sixywixethed

i've had some problems like this in the past, and although i have some idea from looking at the pages of furbid and other places and from my own comon sense, it would be intereting to see someone elses prospective

nynthi at btinternet dot com

many spanx

Date: 2007-12-05 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kuwaizair.livejournal.com
can I have some contactcts? i'm not learned on this subject to well

Date: 2007-12-05 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zorichan.livejournal.com
*waves hand* Would like sample contracts as well. zorilita at gmail dot com.

Date: 2007-12-05 02:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] growly.livejournal.com
Oh man, super sorry to hear it. Thanks for posting this though, I will definitely use your advice.

Date: 2007-12-05 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anjel-kitty.livejournal.com
Don't they teach you this sort of stuff in Art school or something? Like a course in business and how to deal with the art industry besides just classes on techniques? I mean it just makes sense that if you're a professional artist you would know these sort of things in advance. Always make a contact and specify amount for commission, especially in the event of a project that is going to be very time consuming and be for a decent amount of money.

The only commission work I've ever done is sort of armature con and online commissions, but if ever someone on a big firm was contact me about a job, I'd get all the information I could on it namely what it was for, how much I would paid, and who I was dealing with before I got way into this.

I suppose its good that at least others could learn from your experience, that if you go into something with a decent sum of money involved and a firm, its best to do a bit of research and come at it with a little business sense.


Date: 2007-12-05 04:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anjel-kitty.livejournal.com
Oh my mistake then. I should hope they teach this sort of stuff at art school because it seems like something that would be very important to know if you were going to be involved in the industry.
Either way its good people know about this from your experience.

Date: 2007-12-05 05:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fiercereaper.livejournal.com
Yes, generally they do, in a manner relevant to the program you're in.

Date: 2007-12-05 05:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sunhawk.livejournal.com
Don't they teach you this sort of stuff in Art school or something? Like a course in business and how to deal with the art industry besides just classes on techniques?

LOL Not at my school! They talked about gallery commissions, filling out grant applications, etc but that was about it.

Date: 2007-12-06 06:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fanartist.livejournal.com
Sometimes they might have it, but you just have too look for it on your own.

My school has copies of freelance contracts students can take and use and I some books in Career Services on freelancing.

Date: 2007-12-05 05:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fiercereaper.livejournal.com
You might want to look into CARFAC if you haven't already, not so much that it's specifically relevant to this matter per se, but it'd be good for you to be aware of. It's one of the organizations crammed into your mental file cabinet before you're disgorged from NSCAD.

Date: 2007-12-05 09:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solid-squid.livejournal.com
Although I agree that forwarding the unproffesional emails they sent you to the customers would be childish, I do think they deserve to know. It might be worth contacting the client and explaining to them what has happened, maybe something along the lines of this.

"If you wish to order any further illustrations for your books, please feel free to contact me directly. However, due to the unprofessional attitude shown by the company you went through, I will not be willing to deal with them on such matters again."

Obviously you should make it a bit longer and possibly go into more detail (although I wouldn't go too much, you don't want them to think you're just whining) and possibly have someone proof read it to make sure it sounds professional.

Doing this would not only help you, but would likely help the client as well, since I'd be surprised if any artist they worked with would be willing to do any further work for them, say on a trilogy of books. If they are made aware of the problem then they can deal with it, and most likely they can save some money in the long run too by cutting out the middle-man

Date: 2007-12-06 09:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dorksquid.livejournal.com
This story made me shudder.

I've had a few icky times that could have been avoided if I had had a contract. (Reediting, editing, more editing...ough, it was a nightmare!)

Thanks for sharing your story. :)

Date: 2007-12-08 02:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allytha.livejournal.com
http://www.amazon.com/Graphic-Artists-Guild-Handbook-Guidelines/dp/0932102131/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197079210&sr=8-1

An awesome book, that one. I recommend it here because I see a lot of people interested in contract structure and what they entail. ^_^

Date: 2007-12-09 09:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayjkay.livejournal.com
Actually, technically hun, since you didn't sign over the paperwork for copyrights useage, THEY are at fault for misusing your image unless you released the copyrights to them :)

The things you learn in a professional studies class.

Oh wait you said that. Hmm... I'm gonna hafta write up a post on the wonders of: http://www.gag.org/

Date: 2007-12-10 11:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joanmichele.livejournal.com
I am sorry dude, but you are shit out of luck in here. The CCA clearly states "Where, in the case of an engraving, photograph or portrait, the plate or other original was ordered by some other person and was made for valuable consideration, and the consideration was paid, in pursuance of that order, in the absence of any agreement to the contrary, the person by whom the plate or other original was ordered shall be the first owner of the copyright." In other words, without a contract expressly saying otherwise, the second you accept money and are paid for a commissioned work, the default copyright owner becomes that of the comissioner not the artist who created it.

Date: 2007-12-13 07:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joanmichele.livejournal.com
Well if you have read up on what I am citing, you might find some further clarification of this.

'Portrait' under Canadian law includes paintings, drawn works, and/or digital images.

The copyright ownership ruling is listed under the CCA section Chapter C-42, Section 12(2). Section 12(3) then goes on to state :

Where the author of a work was in the employment of some other person under a contract of service or apprenticeship and the work was made in the course of his employment by that person, the person by whom the author was employed shall, in the absence of any agreement to the contrary, be the first owner of the copyright

Under the legal definitions of 'contract of service', we find that it includes exchange of money for services. In other words, if you were commissioned to do this work and paid for it, and accepted the payment, you're outta luck. This is one of the major ways that Canadian and US copyright laws differ. A 'work' is any material that falls under the jurisdiction of the CCA, which is at present all copyrightable material except sculptures and statues, in certain specific instances.

Furthermore, the GAG does not currently have jurisdiction in Canada. You're in Halifax, so you fall under the rulings outlined by the CCA, not American copyright law. Remember that laws are different in different countries and just because something works one way in the US does not mean it works that way everywhere.

Date: 2007-12-11 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cyraneternal.livejournal.com
*nods* I had something similar, although for a lot less money. I was paid to draw some pictures of the company's logo bull 'advertising' stuff... they didn't like it when I posted my WIP images of it on DA D:

Find it odd they found my DA too o.o

Date: 2008-03-27 05:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] industrialwolf.livejournal.com
Just letting you know I'm bookmarking this and using it as a reference for my future commissions since I'm getting into some of the big-time stuff now. Thanks for sharing.

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