phonecalls from clients

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if this kind of post is appropriate, but I can't think of a better place to get some useful answers to my questions, so I beg your indulgence:

I'm still new at doing commissions online and I have a potential client in another country who seems really particular about discussing their commission on the phone rather than email or IM. I'm a little wary of doing so because a) even if they call me, it's still long-distance and I still get charged for the length of the call and b) I'm not really comfortable giving out information like my phone number to someone who is essentially a stranger.

Is it a regular thing to deal with customers in other countries over the phone? Have I just missed mention of that part?

Is it better to cater to the customer or should I stick to my prefered means of working out a commission, ie through email or IM? I get the feeling the client isn't very Internet-savvy or maybe doesn't have a lot of internet access, I don't know if that makes a difference...

Thanks for reading :)

ETA: Thank you SO MUCH for your thoughts and some really good points about contracts and record-keeping :) I wasn't worried too much about stalking since the contact mentioned the commission as a gift for their SO, etc.

Comments

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'd rather have a record of a deal. With a phone, there's no proof that they said what they said and it all comes down to he-said she-said if something goes wrong.

But that's personal preference. I kind of have a phone-phobia and I don't really like to give that stuff out, so I'd never do a deal over the phone.

[rustydragonfly.livejournal.com]

I've never known anyone ask to call over the phone, so as far as I know it's not a common thing, at least not within fandom circles. I've done all my work via email.

I think you'd be well within your rights to decline and explain why. As well as your own reservations, phone calls aren't very good for record keeping, another reason I like to stick to email.

[celty.livejournal.com]

Off topic, but <3 to your icon. That show cracks me up, especially Alan XD

[pokeypony.livejournal.com]

There is absolutely no good reason to give any personal info out to anyone for any reason.

I know alot of artist friends that have been stalked and harrased by fans and/or customers and sounds like a bad idea.

Someone having limited net access is not an excuse.

Sounds like you would be better off passing this one up.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Definitely would have to advise against it. Not just because there won't be a paper trail, but because if by chance something goes wrong, you have a very unhappy person with your phone number. Harassing calls aside, there's also the potential of your number being reposted out of spite.

[kayjkay.livejournal.com]

No. Tell them they would need to reimburse costs if done, and that you, the artist, need written documentation of what is needed for a commission. Explain it this way: Do you sign contracts over the phone? No. Contracts are written.

Commissions are contracts and therefore they need to handle it that way.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything that has been said, stick to email, it might be slower but it's unlikely to backfire spectacularly.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

There should be no reason for you to have to pay for a long distance call out of your own pocket when email is free -- even if they aren't net-savvy or don't have much access. If this becomes a deal-breaker for either side, there are PLENTY of other customers who would be happy to work with you. Via email. :)

Try Furbid if you haven't already, I'm sure you'll find lots of work there.

[ed-the-chibi.livejournal.com]

I personally wouldn't do it. I mean the person may just be trying to commission you to turn around and stalk you or something. Yeah, I know. I'm a paranoia betch.

Anyway, you need to go with what you feel like doing. If you don't want to discuss things over the phone, tell them that. Also, tell them if it breaks the deal, so be it. It's bad enough you have to send your e-mail, etc.

[rah-bop.livejournal.com]

I am a phonophobe anyway, but no chance would I talk over the phone about it. I would rather just pass it up and find other clients.

[gas-mask-dragon.livejournal.com]

Ok, why would the be commissioning art work which they find commissioners online ANYWAYS?!

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

For my home-based part of my business I don't do any business via the phone. I inform my clients of this when they ask and I figure if they are uneasy with email back and forth, they can certainly hire someone else.

The reason? I once did a freelance design job and got calls at all hours. Never again. I will give my phone number to big contract type people, like Topps, but never to an individual client.

I get enough client calls in my day job, for my evening work I like to relax.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

"I once did a freelance design job and got calls at all hours."

Because they were demanding pricks or because of timezones?
I'd say timezones is a good enough reason to decline calls, I get very testy when someone wakes me up for something important, nevermind to hear someone describe their character's 12" clitcock to you ;P

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

No, I know better than to give someone my phone number in another timezone way off. The guy was in texas, so it was a one hour difference.

And he called to CHAT.

Then he stiffed me out of money.

And then when he finally paid me he sent me a friendly letter like we were pals.

This wasn't a furry client, so it was even creepier

[shimmer-critter.livejournal.com]

This wasn't a furry client, so it was even creepier - I lol'ed at this XD

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

I half expect furries to latch on in a personal way, so I brace myself for it. XD

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I was about to say, because you expect furries to be creepy XD

But yeah, what a jackass.

[fiercereaper.livejournal.com]

You would be far within your rights to bill them for your phone usage since it would be related to completing the work for them, but as it is, I'd say keep it with IM. They can say exactly the same things in a text conversation as on a phone, particularly if it is through IM.

The only clients I have ever been on the phone with have all been people commissioning me for business-related work (logos, game boards) and more likely than not meeting them in person. For a personal commission? No freakin way, too many dingbats out there.

[blitzava.livejournal.com]

I've always refused to give out my phone number and have never regretted it....seems like the clients who have asked for my number end up being the creepy ones XD

[kytheraen.livejournal.com]

That sounds fucking creepy. He probably doesn't want your art anyway, but gets off on talking about sexual positions and yiff over the phone.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

....
I totally agree with what she said.



(I just didn't want to say it.)

[thrivis.livejournal.com]

I agree with all that's been said. It's not common at all to hand out your phone info to someone ONLINE, especially private commissions! It might seem like an innocent question to the person commissioning you if they aren't tech savvy, but specify you don't make a practice of using the phone for online things because it's for your own protection.

I might be tempted to give the benefit of the doubt to the client if it was someone you met in person through a gallery or angecy, but online? Too much of a risk.

Your icon? All kinds of hawtness btw. :3

[growly.livejournal.com]

I give out all my fursuit commissioners my phone number in case all other communication fails... it's such a lot of money that it sort of serves as a sign of trust on both ends.
However, I'd try gently urging him to use email, as you can keep records a lot more easily that way, and of course there is the matter of phone bills.

[theblackdragon.livejournal.com]

if he really wants something from you, he'll deal with you on your terms. stick with what makes you comfortable.

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

DO NOT give out your phone number. It's a mistake I made, a very deep mistake.

Over the past two years, I've had a serial commissioner. He was decent, paid me well for my work - even though the subject matter... well, he claimed it wasn't a fetish, but I'll get into that later.

One thing, though... he kept pestering me for my phone number. I wasn't quite grasping the idea he had for a commission, so I finally caved in and said, "fine. here it is".

Talking to him was awkward, at best. I was quite bored by him. And as time went on, he would try calling me about once a week. I'd pick up maybe once a month, having formed a basic online acquaintenceship with him... and I didn't want to be rude and/or lose a good client.

As time went on, the calls increased. Finally, this summer, he decided that he was going to be "in the area" and bought a train ticket that passed through my city. I freaked out. I had absolutely NO desire to meet him IRL, as I keep most furries at arms' length. My fiancee handled the situation... he agreed that we'd meet for dinner, and that would be it.

Said commissioner shows up, turns out to be a pretty decent guy. We go to dinner and stuff (nothing out of the ordinary; I'd do as much at a con) and then he worms his way into hanging out with us more (so I could finish a commission for him and so on).

And then he brings out the books on pregnancy. Like, ten of them. It became glaringly clear of how deep the fetish was, and I was like, OMG! D:

He decided to stay in my city for a few more days, even though I told him I had to work, which pretty much tore it. I didn't hang out with him during that time. I was busy AND creeped out. He eventually left, but started calling three times a day. I won't get in to details, but I pretty much had to tell the guy to leave me alone.

He proceeded to tell other people who commissioned me that I would most likely take their money and run, which was a total crock. Once again, my fiancee called HIM up and left a nasty voice mail to cease and desist.

It was a very long and uncomfortable affair. And while I'm trying to keep this short, I'm hopeful that it will serve as a message to anyone who reads it: Don't be a chump, like I was. Keep the upper hand. Work with ONLY what YOU are comfortable with. Don't let anyone sweet-talk or nag you into doing something you're not keen on.

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, I'm really sorry to hear about that! Thanks for sharing your story! @_@;;;

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Yikes, creepy!

I'd say this warrants a post about him here if you could be persuaded?
So other artists can avoid him like the plague.

[snapesgirl34.livejournal.com]

Seconded. The guys sounds a bit like stalker material.

[snapesgirl34.livejournal.com]

My, that's frightening. O_O

A pregnancy fetish? Ewwwwww.

[badkitty.livejournal.com]

that.is.so.creepy!

pregnancy fetishes are SO gross.
i mean, pregnant women are beautiful- in a powerful earthly kind of way.
but to WHACK off to it?
eeeeew.
*shuddershudder*

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Rule 34.

[snapesgirl34.livejournal.com]

I agree, I think they're beautiful, but the idea of someone getting off to it is just gross. XP If you ever look up "pregnant" on DA I swear, about 90% of the pics are fetish related.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I've never discussed commissions on the phone, only face to face or via e-mail :/

Has he paid up front? Because if you do choose to talk via the phone then he needs to agree to pay for the entire expense of it. I would suck if you talked to him on the phone for a while and he then decided to back off without reimbursing you.

[nambroth.livejournal.com]

No, never... I've been doing commission work for 10 years, both professional freelance and personal commissions, and I've never once talked to a client on the phone. Even the pro stuff I've done, my art directors preferred I email them only.

[lilsongbird.livejournal.com]

I've been selling art and doing commissions for.... 6 or 7 years now. I have only ever given my phone number when 1) I know the person, or friends of the person well enough to have talked with them on the phone, 2) they have provided their number and mailing address first. Certainly it can make communication easier when net access is limited. However if there is any charge to you for using the phone, they should foot the bill, preferably upfront.