Advice: Silent Pick-ups?

[ethelune.livejournal.com]

As a commissioner, I've always thanked my artists for the lovely work they do; it's just common courtesy. Still, I was a bit surprised when I saw artists complaining about silent pick-ups in the past. Yes, it's rude to accept your commission without thanking the artist, but it didn't seem worth the fuss some people were making.

Now, I've only started opening for commissions within the past year or two. It's rare that I'm commissioned, but I'm grateful that my customers have always been friendly and understanding throughout the process. Still, half the time, my commissioners (usually one person in particular) just pay me after I e-mail them the completed work – not even a quick "thanks" to accompany the payment. And, well, I was startled (and, honestly, a little embarrassed) by the extent to which that irritated me.

So, I guess we get to my questions. Are silent pick-ups commonplace, in your experience? Do you hardly notice when they happen, or do they influence your readiness to work with certain commissioners again, especially if they've done it more than once? I'd really appreciate any advice you all have!

Edit: Thank you to everyone for your advice! I've received some excellent feedback from you all, including how to approach these situations more positively and professionally.

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I agree that it's a bit rude, and I could personally never understand not thanking someone who did something for me, even though I paid for it. I thank the cashier when they give me my food, I thank the person who bags up my groceries at the store, etc.

I wouldn't say it's required, per se, but it should be common courtesy. Unfortunately, it's going to happen. I've even done free art plenty of times, delivered it, and not been thanked, and I'd consider that even worse.

It's understandable that it bothers you, and it bothers me too (I tend to think they hate what I did for them if they don't say anything). But it just comes with the business, I suppose. It doesn't really influence my want to work with anyone and I'm not sure I'd call it 'commonplace' so much as just 'not rare'.

[firewo1f94.livejournal.com]

I always get paranoid that they dont like it, even if they have said they loved it all through the proccess. I always try to check that they like it by adding a 'hope its what you wanted' type thing at the end but I still get silence sometimes and it really weirds me out. Ill still work with them, it does just make me more likely to ask if they liked the last peice.

[clockmagic.livejournal.com]

(I'm not an artist, I'm more a customer) I always thank people before, during, and after I get commissions from them, but I'm always put off when a few complain about receiving that. A few have even come off as livid in my experience and I can't grasp why. Maybe more and more people are just keeping quiet so not to possibly annoy the artist?

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

I'd rather annoy someone by being overly polite than not polite enough >>. But yeah, that is strange that someone would complain about being thanked. I'm not sure what that's about.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

It's been in the minority, in my experience. I'd say 90% of the people I do art for send a thanks my way. Ironically enough, the 10% that didn't were people receiving freebies of some sort. Yes, it's irritating, because it's rude to not at least acknowledge receipt of an item. But there's not much to be done about it without making you look like a jerk. Unless you want to send them an email just to double-check that they got the finished piece; hopefully they would respond to that, and even if they still don't thank you, at least you'll know that they got it. But I definitely wouldn't go further than the one email, unless you were mailing a real media piece and were trying to confirm that it arrived safely.

[radiocatastrophe (from livejournal.com)]

Usually compliment the piece if I really like it, sometimes I pick-up and forget but come back and thank later.

Though I think people who are willing to pay you fr your art is enough and wouldn't find it rude if someone didn't thank me for my work as the payment would be thanks enough.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Personally, I do notice and I get paranoid that they didn't like it and won't say anything. If that was the case, then I'd be happy to make little tweaks here and there to where they WILL be happy.

I had a rather large commission on my plate and it took many hours. I got positive feedback on all of the WIPs and when I delivered the final image? Nothing. No favorite on the submission, no comment, just a read note that wasn't replied to. :(

I know it's part of being in business that folks won't say something all the time nor are they obligated to, but I would love to know if they like the image or if not, how can I help them.

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that same sort of situation happened to me before to. It made me afraid the commissioner was afraid to say something was wrong. If I had messed up somewhere I would have much rather heard that I made a mistake than just receiving the static silence.

[kaelstra.livejournal.com]

I tend to kind of grenade fish for a comment when I turn over work, with a simple, "Here it is all finished, I really hope you like it!" kind of thing.

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

I've had two different people who did the sort of silent pick up deal with me when I completed their commissions. I didn't really know what to think and was afraid they didn't even get it because in one case they didn't even fav the image, and had not requested a copy of the file. I sent them the image a second time just to be sure they got it but never heard back. To this day I just really hope they got their commission and there wasn't something wrong with it or something 8[

Most artists I've talked to have run into this before, and yeah it feels pretty shitty as an artist but I guess it's a thing that happens. I do find it rude to a point, but more than anything I just end up worrying if I as the artist messed up somewhere. Makes me more paranoid than upset.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

That is an issue of practicality. If they don't at least favourite it, how can you be sure they received it? Emails and notes DO get eaten along the way sometimes. But I've had people do this to me and then when I get nervous and ask them if they received their art, they're active but can't be bothered to reply to that, either. So eh. Not much you can do.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

This happens a small fraction of the time with me. Generally if I do not get any response, I ask them again to make doubly sure they received it. Sometimes they thank me, other times it's "just business" and they don't.

Best bet is to just make sure they get it in general, and not think about it too much. I find it rude, but I realize sometimes it's hard for folks to respond. And sometimes, they even might just forget to! Lots of "what ifs".

If they do it more then once, then it's something that's just common for them to do. If they pay, and keep coming back, they're still a repeat customer and valued to me. I wouldn't turn a customer down for not responding, not if they paid and returned for more.

[kasune.livejournal.com]

This is one of my biggest peeves as a commission artist. How am I supposed to know how well I did on your work if you don't even thank me or tell me anything?

A lot of us here know how you feel. I've had a popular artist commission me and do exactly this- no favorite, no comment, nothing. They didn't even reply to my note, and I got paranoid that I didn't meet their standards, even if they made me draw something out of my comfort zone and I put my all into it.

I also try to add a "thank you for commissioning" and/or "hope you like it!" at the end of the artist description, but this doesn't always make the person comment or fave.

It is common. The best thing to do is not to think about it too much. If they come to you with a problem later, after the work is finished... well, that's another story. Until that happens there's really not much else you can do.

Edit: I just saw what Neolucky said, and I greatly agree with them. If they're coming to you as a repeat customer, I really don't think you need to worry. That's just how they work as a commissioner.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Haha, like... I find it rude of course when a customer doesn't give a final input, but I have definitely dealt with folks who have some social anxieties, and would rather just silently enjoy the work. As long as I get paid, and they get it, sall good! Repeat customers are bread and butter of freelancing <3.

[funkicarus.livejournal.com]

i don't mind silent pick-ups, especially because sometimes people don't want to openly advertise to others their feelings on, say, a fetish piece. they certainly seem to be more common on esoteric fetish pieces than on normal avatar art, from my experience.

i suppose i can understand why some artists might not like them, though. it makes you feel like maybe you somehow screwed up and they didn't like it but didn't want to tell you how/what to change to make it better.

[germanchoclates.livejournal.com]

When I was doing a free little sketch promo on FA (help me advertise sort of thing) and 2 of the 4 who helped me out didn't even favorite or acknowledge what I had done for them despite seeing they were active.

It honestly made me feel really crummy and used. It turned me off from offering anything in the future. Chances are I won't even bother doing it again and it left a really sour taste in my mouth regarding the both of them. Frankly I'd rather not deal with either again as I found it incredibly rude to not even so much as note me (if they wanted to keep it private for whatever reason.)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Hah, I had the same experience for my annual Free Sketch Days. I would think if you have the time to sign up, you have the time to say thank you to someone who did you something for free! Oh well.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

Silent pick-ups are not only plainly rude, I NEED confirmation of the delivery before the transaction is considered closed on my end. So no, in my opinion silent pick-ups suck and nobody should do them :c

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

I don't mind silent pickups, at all.
However, there was a bit of a fiasco or two that I have had where the commissioner was upset that I "never informed them" of their commission being completed, and was pretty much blacklisted by those customers. It made me feel pretty crummy. My favorite part of the whole commission process is the "Voila! Here it is, and it's done!" step.

So, practically, it's best to figure out a way that they have received the artwork for sure. But I don't really mind whether they make a ton of comments on it or not.




...you know what really bugs me though?
When they hate it, but won't tell you or just don't say anything, and then re-upload it to their gallery (or just show it to friends) and complain about how bad it is in the artist's comments or user comments sections. That's also a huge bummer.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

"When they hate it, but won't tell you or just don't say anything, and then re-upload it to their gallery (or just show it to friends) and complain about how bad it is"

I had that happen to me once. I shot the guy a note and asked "what can I do to make this better for you?" I ended up doing a request for him as my attempt to 'make good' so to speak.

[purpule.livejournal.com]

It's not very commonplace in the work I do, but when it does happen I greatly rethink accepting future commissions from that person. Whether right or wrong in that attitude, if the communication hasn't been pleasant, it'll affect the way I feel about the transaction. Sometimes I feel like it's showing me such little respect, so why would I want to work with someone who didn't respect me or my work?

(this is not always the case, but in one particular case with a commissioner who has been difficult for maaaany artists, I felt completely disrespected as they silently picked up, reuploaded to their own gallery, and then misspelled my username wrong, not even fixing it after I asked - so, it does leave a nasty taste)

[noiserut.livejournal.com]

If anything I'd like to know:
1. They received it.
2. It's what they wanted.

I'm haunted to this day by some in the past who never responded after I sent files, 'thank you's are nice and always makes me feel more accomplished with my time spent, but I just REALLY want to know they got the files and that they are happy with the result 8'I

Personally I'd offer thanks if I commissioned an artist for letting me take a slot first off and spending how many hours out of their day working on it, regardless of "they get thanked by being paid" it kind of feels discouraging when you're [usually] getting paid less than minimum wage and being treated like a printer I guess.

[sirmeo.livejournal.com]

My biggest problem is that you don't know if the commissioner received the picture or not. Sometimes I do send reminders because I just need to know you got the picture and don't silently seethe in rage about that artist who has not given you your commission yet and talk bad about me to their friends.

I have some commissioners who don't really comment on stuff and I admit I sometimes forget too if I receive the commission when I'm busy and think "i'll comment when i have the time oops that was three weeks ago now ill just look like a freak if i comment on it gosh."
I used to be really worried but at least one of them is semi-regular commissioner so I assume they like what they get. If they don't say anything about the picture I really can't help it so thinking about it too hard will only make me nervous. There are different people any way, even those who do comment range from "thanks" to paragraphs of text why they like it and how happy with the work they are.

With free art I do for people in raffles and such I'm usually more annoyed if I don't get a comment, a simple thank you, back. You're not giving me money, at least give me tose two seconds it takes to type "thanks" and post it.

TL;DR: I don't like silent pick-ups BUT if someone who does not comment wants another commission from you they probably liked the first one and I would not deny them a slot based off on only "did not comment"

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

They've provided the money, I've done the work. That's the extent of our contract.

Expecting anything more of a customer reads, at least to me, a bit like those customers we all hate who expect that we will be friends since we've done business.

That said I really, totally love it when somebody thanks me for my work. The ones who gush about it and the even rarer ones who leave me a tip absolutely make my day! But I don't expect that, and I'm not bothered or upset when it doesn't happen. They've paid for my work, that's all that's required.

[ethelune.livejournal.com]

I don't expect friendship when I smile at and thank a cashier; I just find it to be common courtesy. On the same note, if I see an artist who's rude or dismissive to their customers, I'm much less likely to buy from them, even if I love their work. It's certainly not the most important aspect of a business transaction, but attitude does make a difference, I think... even if the difference is small.

[smokeandspots.livejournal.com]

Whenever I get a silent pick-up, I take that as a negative response. I do have extensive communication with my commissioners throughout the process, so in that context it is more than a little rude. Fortunately that doesn't happen often, and it helps that I get paid up front; people are more willing to be communicative when you have their money.

[weirdmisty.livejournal.com]

I think it's worth keeping in mind that some people are very shy/antisocial/socially awkward, and don't necessarily realize they're being rude by not replying - it's just something that truly doesn't occur in all cases. I have some issues with shyness myself and sometimes feel too awkward to do more that mumble thanks for things when in person, though being able to takw my time typing helps me allay that online. Still, I can understand why someone might not think to say anything even if their feeling about the art is very positive.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

Only one person has ever done a silent-pickup on me. It was quite disconcerting. Usually all of my commissioners email to say thank you. When this one customer didn't respond at all, I was left wondering what they thought of the art. I still don't know if he liked them or if he was disappointed and didn't want to say anything.

[sresla.livejournal.com]

You're my artist and you received a silent pick-up. What does this mean? Usually that:

a) The artist has taken a long time on my commission. By long, I mean promised deadlines broken more than once. A lack of communication, forcing me to feel like a bad guy by sending notes with repeated pleas for updates. I'd say that it's very common for commissioners to wait past the deadline for Paypal intervention because those of us who are untalented in the visual media department understand that it isn't always easy to be creative on demand. We're also afraid that if we annoy an artist, our money is just gone, with little recourse.

And, by the time I receive the commission, it's also possible that the accompanying angst - the memories of waiting months, chewing my nails, wondering if my $50, $75, $100 was just flushed down the drain - makes me unable to enjoy the artwork.

Basically, if you're making me wait past the Paypal deadline (that's a month and a half), with no *artist-initiated* contact/updates beyond the attention you paid to me before I sent you my money, I'm not sure a thank you back is warranted.

b) I was unhappy with the art (usually via WIPs) and when it's brought up to the artist they become defensive. No matter what happens now, things are (probably) going to end badly.

I try to word my critiques as carefully as possible. Because I'm hopeful, right? If I *say* something, the art that I was so excited originally to receive won't be a disappointment. I don't know how the artist will react. Until they get defensive.

At that point - although I never have - I should just ask for a refund. If the artist is defensive, chances are good that the changes I'm requesting won't get done in any meaningful way anyway. I also understand that shading can do a lot of things, but I now know that if I'm unhappy with the line-work, I'm probably not going to like the picture any better colored.

I pay the remaining balance if there is one, the artwork is finished and sent to me. And I just delete the file or shove it somewhere, never to be looked at again. (Note: see below, RE: how artist treats commissioner). But I don't feel good about saying thank you, because I don't feel I received what I paid for.

TLDR:

1. Don't treat me like a bank.


2. If I've worked up the courage (and it can be hard/intimidating to do so) to tell you there's something I don't like about what I've commissioned, realize it's not personal. I WANT to be happy. I LOVE being a repeat customer. There was something about your artwork that captured me when I saw it, and I wanted your help making what I imagine come to life.

I didn't mean to make you feel bad when I said _________ about the art (insert something tactful like, "The character's right hand looks out of proportion with the rest of his body. Is it possible to fix that?" and not, "The character's right hand looks like someone slammed it with a frying pan and ala Wile E. Coyote it now looks flat as a pancake. Thanks, jerkwad."), but I did pay you for a service. Even if I don't pass Tactful Critiques 101, I'm not deliberately being hurtful, either (name calling, etc). So, all feels aside - is what I'm asking for reasonable? If not, why not?

How an artist treats me goes a long way towards how I treat them. Mind, I'm not asking to be best friends with anyone but communication is key. I can't stress this enough (although I don't know if by communication I mean: many excuses but no progress. Or saying okay to a change, but then just coloring and handing it over, ignoring what the commissioner said. I think most people understand the differences I'm talking about, here.)

Even if I don't necessarily like what I receive, if I feel the artist has tried, has worked with me, and gave it their best effort to please me as a client, I'll thank them. But if you can extrapolate anything about me from our working relationship, you'll know the difference between me being on forgetful/busy and the intentional silent pick-up.

Additional reading:

http://alexds1.deviantart.com/art/Commission-tutorial-116427636?q=boost%3Apopular%20commission%20tutorial&qo=0

http://colormewonderful.deviantart.com/art/How-to-Business-173912391?q=boost%3Apopular%20commission%20how%20to%20deviation&qo=0

[thaily.livejournal.com]

While I understand where you're coming from (been there, done that), and if you can't discuss the issue you're having with an artist in a mature way (because they are defensive or whatnot), why still not just tell them "Hey thanks" when they send you the final result and keep the moral high ground?

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Silent pick-ups are annoying, rudeness aside, you dunno if the customer has RECEIVED it and seen it and acknowledged that the commission is finished, much less shoots you a "Thanks, sucker!"

I've had one or two silent pick-ups and was worried if it would come back to bite me in the ass later, for example via a post here going "Ehmehgerd, Thaily hasn't finished my commission for months!", while it could easily be refuted, it's still a post :/

Also, I tend to sit on images until the customer acknowledges the finished work, even when I really want to upload it. It's kinda annoying to have to wait days and then contact them again until you get a response.

Like some of the others here, I tend to thank people for everything, even my husband when he gets me a cup of tea. So I just don't understand the mindset of people who do silent pick-ups.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

As an artist, I'm the same as the others here in that all the 'no acknowledgement' experiences were with free art/requests. That annoyed me because then I felt like I had completely wasted my time and energy. I would have preferred to have spent in a picture for someone else who really wanted one and not a time waster. It's pretty much the reason I stopped doing freebies.

As for being a commissioner, sorry to say, the only time I didn't comment/fav a commission was because I really didn't like it.
The problem was that due to the nature of the commission and what was going on for the artist, there would be no chance of correction/redo etc. So saying I didn't like it wouldn't have made a difference and I would have looked like a jerk.
But I couldn't honestly leave a comment saying it liked it. In the end I didn't know what to do so left it as that.

(For those who want to know the whys of that commission, the commission was 1 hour live speedpaint. However artist only spent 40 mins on it, did it at a different time than expected so I wasn't on the stream, rushed it after doing 4 other paints so was obviously tired, no corrections were offered, was going to stop doing commissions after clearing owed ones, I disliked the whole image so no easy fixes)

But that was the only time and had particular circumstances. I hope I've commented/faved all commissions but i'm so forgetful, there may be one i've missed XD Or sometimes my shyness gets the better of me and I struggle to leave a decent comment or have to come back the next day. I think it must happen for others, sometimes someone thinks to comment/fav later and then forgets and other such things occur so may not always be that they don't like the image.

[shadowedyoshii.livejournal.com]

Sorry to say, my sole silent pickup was a similar situation. An artist offering super quick, relatively cheap as heck IA slots with the condition of no WIPs on account of the fastness and cheapness and etc. I honestly wasn't crazy about the end result, but it was a specific circumstance without WIPs, the artist hadn't done anything incorrectly or poorly or wrong; we'd just basically miscommunicated about exactly what I was after/stylistically, and the onus for clear communication DEFINITELY falls on my shoulders. So I recognized that it CERTAINLY wasn't really my place to be like "hey so, there's nothing wrong with this but it doesn't really match the rest of your pieces stylistically and that's not really what I meant", because what could they do to rectify it? Draw me a whole new piece? That's not fair, they didn't mess up any characters or draw anything poorly. Refund me? Same, it's not like they didn't hold up their end of the agreement. Offer it to them as critique anyway? Again, "oh, I thought they would be chibi-er and cuter" isn't really a note they could take to improve on. And yeah, same, it hit a weird, disinguinous note of insincerity/"lying" to tell them otherwise, so in the end I just forgot to comment ): This was FOREVER ago and I feel like a jerk now, I wish I could go back and comment because I probably made them feel like I hated it when it was just mild disappointment and I didn't want to be a dick, but it's been years and I feel like commenting at THIS point would be more awkward than continuing to leave sleeping dogs lie :C

[kadaria.livejournal.com]

As a commissioner I try to always say thank you and to leave a comment on the art or gush about it when I link back from my account. But in real life I say thank you to everyone from the unhelpful bartender to the awesome drive through speaker guy.