Question on Commissioners and Instant Messengers

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Hello, I don't have any particular person to post about but I'm seeking advice on what other artists feel about, or how they deal with customers that insist on being in constant communication via an instant message service like Yahoo Instant Messenger or Skype. Particularly if they seem to always be there, always wondering if you're done with the commission yet or not.

I try to keep in touch with the people I'm doing commissions and have been taking strides to be better at it by sending updates by email, and if there is a period of time that I may be busy with something else (such as, most recently, finals week for a collage class I had) I let them know by email and or leave a journal on Furaffinity where they commission me from.

Every once in a while someone would ask to get on my friend's list or request to communicate by Skype and this person will always be there, wondering what I'm doing at all times, and sometimes it gets in the way of actually finishing the commissions. It gets to be intimidating sometimes because it's so frequent that I don't always have something to show, and thus I'm in the uncomfortable position of explaining why I haven't had done any further work yet in wake of spending my day doing other things. Usually when this happens the customer often requests additions to the commission before I'm finished with what was originally agreed to.

Anyone?

Comments

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

When they ask for your IM screennames say no and keep all commission related business to email or note only. Customers are not entitled to this information.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Sometimes they don't even ask, I think I might need to remove the YIM address from the FA page...

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Having it listed publicly makes it 'fair game' so yes, removing it would be a fantastic idea.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Its up to you if you want to let clients discuss their commission via messenger. If you do, simply put your foot down that no progress has been made and that you will contact them when you have made some.

Do not let them bully you into adding more work onto your plate. They will have to learn to keep their distance and pestering you every moment you get on will not get their image done faster.

If they refuse to abide by your wishes, then refund them and reuse any progress if you can.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's the main reason I have "one commission at a time" in my TOS... someone originally commissioned me to make something Second Life related, and then added a whole Second Life avatar that kept getting more complex. Meanwhile I'm just trying to concentrate on finishing the original agreement, and I'm not going to do anything else till I'm paid for it.

[korth.livejournal.com]

I stopped giving out my messengers for this very reason. You have every right to put your foot down and tell them no, you keep your business conversations strictly to email/etc. if they aren't willing to be okay with that, chances are they'll be the sort that is always bothering you on the messenger..

[duster.livejournal.com]

Don't give out your IM info. I've seen too many horror stories of commissioners using IM as an open invitation to RP, dump personal info on you, or just bug you day in day out.

Customers do not need that information and if you're using a service like Gmail it keeps all your correspondence to a neat little stack.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

You have every right to refuse to give out that info. I don't give out my personal stuff, but recently made an exception, and near instantly regretted it. The person started bothering me daily, asking "what are you up to" which just about always translates to "are you working on my commission"

Save yourself the headache.

[pipedreams.livejournal.com]

This. I've even tried to directly address this "are you working" impression, only to get a response that was along the lines up "but i just wanted to be your friend ;____;" where they seemed offended that I didn't want to talk about what I was doing all the time. In the end, there were no real issues that came of it, but I was just really uncomfortable with the whole thing.

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

I won't deal with a customer who insists on instant messaging because I don't use it anymore - even for close friends. If a stranger insisted, I would say No. If they pushed, I would refund them - if they had paid - or refuse the commission if not.

[kasune.livejournal.com]

It's subjective, really. I only give REPEAT and TRUSTED clients (they have to be both) on my instant messengers. But I remember to keep things business related if need be.

In the end it's up to you. If you don't want to give out your IM client info to someone, that's perfectly okay. I agree with Sigil above, I gave a commissioner my IM info and they would IM me every day to the point where it was bothersome, even if it was just casual conversation. I've only had 2 commissioners where they haven't turned out to be bothersome after giving them IM info.

[aerotheacrobat.livejournal.com]

I actually have it in my TOS not to ask for updates on skype, steam, or other people's streams mostly because I don't keep logs there and also because those are social areas, not business ones (for me anyway). I have a lot of people I already knew that commission me, so I don't want annoyances causing a friendship strain. Have to be firm and tell them no or remove them from your list and tell them the okay areas to contact you.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Hmm, thanks for the idea, I'm surprised I haven't thought about it as something to add to TOS but that makes perfect sense now

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I don't do IM, or Skype, or Streams or give out my phone number, because it seems to encourage this kind of extremely undesirable behavior. I don't think people necessarily do it because they want to be difficult, but they just get too excited and carried away about their commission. So it's a good idea to keep work and private communication methods separate.

Stick to e-mail for business, it's better for administrative purposes too.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Under no circumstance do I give out my Skype or Aim to customers. That's is a big no-no in my eyes, and has repeatedly ended up with uncomfortable situations. So now I ask they keep to my work email only.

[synviver.livejournal.com]

I keep all my IM information private and correspond via email, personally. I couldn't handle being badgered constantly about work.

[silvertales.livejournal.com]

You've got every right not to disclose your IM info, or not to accept a request to talk to them via IM. If you allow your IM to be used to conduct commission business, that's one thing, otherwise, no.

I've got a couple of things in my TOS regarding requesting updates to commissions and changes. First, I do updates to clients as I make progress, via email. That's it. I'll send scans of progress sketches or paintings as I go.

As for changes or additions... I have a change order stipulation in my TOS (something I took from my days as a programmer.) When I send thumbnails my client can request pose changes and such. When I send preliminary rough pencils, the client can make changes to details or props or whatever. Once the rough pencils are agreed upon and the final piece is actually in production, that's it. Any change from then on out is 50% of the initial commission cost. Period.

[eenyuwolf.livejournal.com]

I have a separate Skype account just for business; I do my best to make it known that if you see the account signed in that means I am am available to chat otherwise please note or email me if you have questions.

[databank.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a commissioner, I prefer to work with e-mail anyhow~ Leaves a better record, and encourages patience.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

I've had a couple of customers that would IM me before and it always ended in me being really annoyed. I now keep that handle private and have a public one that people can write to me on... but I almost never login. Just when I am bored and NOT working on commissions. I will not chat with customers on IM anymore.

[dodger-greywing.livejournal.com]

I refuse to discuss commissions over Skype, Twitter, or FA notes. E-mail only, because it's the best way to keep records of the transaction should something go... awry. For this same reason I generally won't commission an artist that only does business through FA notes.

Another reason is that I don't like random furries contacting me for no reason, and turning off FA notes and keeping my Skype private cuts down on that a lot. I get extremely frustrated with people who send me notes or IM me with "hi how are you" like I'm supposed to entertain them. I don't have a lot of patience for social weirdness like that.

[diprotodontia.livejournal.com]

I've had this happen a few times and honestly it drives me to my last nerve. I haven't taken down my IM information yet because I'm extremely anxious about having a customer need to contact me urgently or something and I want to always be available for quick questions or something, but having someone constantly checking in through IM is so aggravating and unnecessary, especially when I make a point of responding EXTREMELY quickly to emails, notes on FA, etc.

I'd definitely just remove the IM information and/or block someone when it gets to be too much. I've had to block a few past customers before not because they were rude or abusive or anything but just because, even AFTER their commission was finished, they just insisted on messaging me several times a day for no reason and it got very distracting and upsetting. My email and notes are always open to everyone, even those that have commissioned me in the past, and I don't think anyone is entitled to more than that. Providing alternate routes of contact is a courtesy and a privilege.

[felonykat.livejournal.com]

"i've had to block a few past customers before not because they were rude or abusive or anything but just because, even AFTER their commission was finished, they just insisted on messaging me several times a day for no reason and it got very distracting and upsetting."

This is why I no longer make my IM public. I am glad that someone was happy with my work via trade or commission, but that doesn't mean we're suddenly friends. It takes time and many conversations (preferably non weird ones X_x) before I venture that with anyone. I don't do free art save for people I've known for a long while or who I am a fan of their work. That seems to be an issue lately on the 'net, people think a correspondence or two equals BFF and it is bad enough when this happens via notes, IM is even worse. Blocking doesn't always work either as I have had a guy go through three different SNs before I just hid myself and limited my IM to buddies only.

I think as long as you politely say "sorry, I don't give my IM/Skype/whatever info out", then they should accept that and bugger off. If they get upset or constantly mention how they wish you would, I would ignore any of those please and finish the commission, unless it gets to be a bit much.

[demonofdreams.livejournal.com]

I never give out my IM handles to anyone unless they were added because of other reasons (met on other sites before the time of commissioning) and they're usually actual friends who know when to leave me alone if I ask. Mostly because I never want to get bothered by questions on work since chat programs distract me, but also because I prefer keeping a professional distance between my clients and me.

I prefer email since there's a proper organised record and you don't have to dig around in IM logs just to find out what the commissioner might have been saying to you about the work.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

I had this issue as well along with the people who would step on my comfort zone a lot, so I ended up denying people my skype contacts and am on a strict add close friends/family basis.

Stick to e-mail/notes ect as everyone else said. It's much more formal. And don't be afraid to say no or decline a add request.

[mottenfest.livejournal.com]

I'm rarely on any sort of IMs myself. Recently I've had more and more people demand that I start using them, stating that if I did they would be more interested in commissioning me. HUGE red flag there.

I think you're in the right to say no to stalkerish IMing and keep work related conversations restricted to emails.

[china-kitty.livejournal.com]

I am echoing others about not giving out IMs or Skype to commissioners. Not only does it encourage undesirable behaviour, you could easily lose any records of transaction with the commissioner. If you have a separate email for business only, it's much easier and you have a record of it.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

i never give mine out.

[royal-poet.livejournal.com]

As a commissioner I'm surprised how many artists have made bad experiences with this. It's always been wonderful for me. I have a lot of artists I've worked with on skype and it's usually come in handy when the artist had any questions about the commission. I guess it must be tempting to bug the artist when it's not wanted to some people.

[pipedreams.livejournal.com]

If I KNOW the person I am working with already in some kind of way, I have no problem speaking with them in IM. But usually when it is people who I do not know, who found me randomly or recently, having them in IMs with me is mostly uncomfortable.

[exo-formicidae.livejournal.com]

Well.. I can say as much as Skype is a fast and easy way to communicate, but I will definitively have a "proffesional" side account in the future. So a little story if anyone is interested;

I got a comission from one at a local forum, he asked if anyone did fursuit comissions, I replied, notes where exchanged - but the note system is clunky at best, so we agreed that switching to skype would make communication a little smoother. A little too smooth if you ask me -__- Now, it is a local fur (2h by car), and we have a very nice community of hanging out together so I though he would be one of the regular people from the forum, but he have no clue how to act in social settings.

I get atleast 50 lines from him on skype a day, 10 of them usually "I'm bored" or "I'm hungry", 5 call attempts, which I mostly ignore, since he only calls to tell me he's bored. a lot of friendly chatting, but it kinda gets drowned in the annoyance, and continues to ask when it will be finished. think I've been asked that at least 5 times the last three days. Which I gave him the solid deadline. Last time I simply said "I will update you when I've made progress, stop nagging".

maybe he took offence, but at this point the deadline is less than a month away and I really don't want him hanging at my doorstep. He also have a way of every time I mention I'll buy something on the forum, he have to find something "better", just to send me the links on skype and tell me to get that instead, it feels extremely degrading, as if I can't find my own products. This morning I also got a text message simply saying "What are you up to? I'm bored"... I might be friendly, but I feel that is crossing the line. I migth have my phone number under my name, I might have met him once irl, but that does not make it OK to send me text messages in the morning. I really wish I would have kept it strictly business, or gotten myself a "business account" on skype.

[pipedreams.livejournal.com]

I usually try to avoid this at all costs, but some people have been very pushy about it. I try to deal with them as best I can, but I have had cases where I have had to sit down and explain to a person that their messaging me all the time was making me really uncomfortable. More than once, I have had a person who commissioned me and added me on some kind of messaging service then take interest in my husband's art and then proceed to try and add him as well, but my husband doesn't even chat with his FRIENDS on messengers. So, they try to IM me about it instead. At this point, if I take any further commissions, it will be under a strict no IM's policy. I understand that some people prefer to be more upfront like this, and have a real need for immediate communication - but in the long run it is just too frustrating to deal with, even if they mean no harm.