[identity profile] jemindra.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] artists_beware
WHO:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/nathradas/
http://nathradas.deviantart.com/
http://oroboros.de/

WHERE: ON FurAffinity via notes and through e-mails.

WHAT: It was a SKETCH for $35. I know that seems a bit pricey for a sketch but I really liked their style and I figured they would draw my chara epicly.
Their quality of sketches: http://www.furaffinity.net/commissions/nathradas/

WHEN: April 14th, 2013

PROOF:
This started out on one of Nathradas' streams. I should have taken a screen shot then but I didn't, thinking that there WOULDN'T be any problems in getting what I want. She said to e-mail me the form and so, I did.
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/9066/proof1ac.png

And here is proof I sent payment:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6941/proofofpayment.png

And she said mine will be drawn tomorrow! So I was excited.
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1247/proof2y.png

EXPLAIN: I commissioned this artist thinking that they'd do my character justice so after waiting for the next day for the stream... That never came. So, I was patient since I did say that there was no deadline for my commission but after receiving not a single message at all since then, I was growing a bit worried. So, after 9 days I messaged her again.

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/4331/proof3r.png

And I got a fast reply.
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/117/proof4c.png

So she said she'll be working on it in a few days so naturally, I waited. Then, I saw a journal posting on FA saying that she'll be streaming! So I was hoping that this would be the day of her doing my sketch and sadly... it was not. She was sculpting and I did not want to just out right ask while in stream so I waited once more. After it was nearing a month, I sent her another note, asking for a refund. I figure at this time, she was either not wanting to draw my char because she was uploading lots of art on her tumblr and ignored my latest sent note.

http://gyazo.com/b7607a5c4eedbeac3589c750c48c503f

This was when I sent her several e-mails and even a message through skype about my commission. None of which she ever replied to.

Skype: http://gyazo.com/3186377c2d5ee4f72f82fa72d01415e6
E-mail: http://gyazo.com/9c3660e875b0fcda3f06400c2aedb54c (sent to her teatime one)
other e-mail: http://gyazo.com/1f677200cf1e1e61c8987f14ff6e2168 (sent to her rukh oone)
All of which are listed under contacts on her website. (Didn't bother blocking out my name since it's common, idgaf)

And I have a feeling she's ignoring me or whatever since she's been uploading art on her tumblr ever since... And I did not see her tumblr until it has been a month passed. I still believe as a commissioner, I should be sending notes/e-mails to know how things are going, right? But at this point, I am unsure of what to do. I cannot do a paypal charge back because it was sent as a gift at the time because I thought it would be done soon.

EDIT!
Seems she replied to her new e-mail she posted up and said she'll be giving me my refund by the end of the month or by the new commissions she'll be taking.
http://gyazo.com/daddfe04574053fe3ea5c764f125add5
Now to wait about a  week for any results.

EDIT 2!:
Refunded in full.
http://i.imgur.com/m93KTgF.png

Current Mood: Annoyed.

Date: 2013-05-24 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neolucky.livejournal.com
I've allowed this post to go through but I have a few concerns:

- Is there any way you could condense your post down? For some reason the text has large spaces, stretching your post out. Maybe make it under a cut instead?

- Do you have a screenshot of your payment to Nathradas? I'd like to see proof of payment and the timestamp for that.

- Your last two screenshot links are the same one.

Re: Is it fixed?

Date: 2013-05-25 07:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neolucky.livejournal.com
Thanks a lot!

Date: 2013-05-25 12:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com
Never send payment as a gift. You can't get it back if something goes wrong and both parties can get in trouble.

Date: 2013-05-25 03:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
This doesn't surprise me in the least.

She still owes me $155 from August, 2011, and communication has been absolutely spotty at best- and I know I'm not the only one dealing with a lack of response on her end. I'll be posting a beware of my own very soonish, I think.

Date: 2013-05-25 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
Just put it into the moderation queue.

Date: 2013-05-25 09:25 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-25 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marus-puppy.livejournal.com
I'm super disappointed as I really like her art!

Maybe someone can correct me, but would it still be possible to do a charge back through a bank?

Date: 2013-05-25 07:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thecreativepen.livejournal.com
Because it's from last month, it's possible. But each bank might have a different policy, so the OP would have to check with theirs to see how to start that process.

At least this was discovered earlier rather than later!

Date: 2013-05-26 02:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
The thing is Paypal may just end up telling them it was marked as a "gift" and the bank may reject the chargeback.

Date: 2013-05-25 11:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] breakspire.livejournal.com
$35 doesn't seem pricey for a sketch

Date: 2013-05-26 10:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nashidesei.livejournal.com
Thank you, this is honestly the first thing I thought when I started reading this. I think everyone who wants to complain about pricing for artwork needs to look at industry standards or something.

Date: 2013-05-27 05:38 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-25 12:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] purpule.livejournal.com
Her journal:
"About current happenings; I'm sorry for the lack of activity lately, but I'm going through a bit of a rough time right now, for various reasons, and you know that creativity is a fickle little thing, so as much as I'm trying to draw on my commissions, it's just not working.
Same goes for dealing with people, I simply cannot do it right now, not without making things much worse at least. Seriously, I am currently freaking out over everything, automatically assuming the worst case scenario.

So please, there's one thing I ask of you. Actually not ask, it's going to be part of my new TOS anyway; Do not try to contact me through anything except my teatime @ oroboros email if you have anything to discuss regarding your commission. I will ignore any attempt of contact outside of this address (that goes for notes here too).

I don't do this because I'm mean and uncaring, I do this because anytime I get a message from someone outside of my email, I feel like someone just broke down the door of my flat and is now standing in my living room, demanding professional answers, while I'm dressed in nothing but boxers, because I just crawled out of bed. Only that it's happening in my head, which means people automatically turn into monsters with sharp teeth. Can you imagine how that feels? Yes, see, and that is the reason why it gets even harder to reach me, the more you try outside of my email. At some point I just stop going into my living room, you know..."




Oh yeah, 'cause that's completely reasonable.
Don't contact me by ANY OTHER MEANS even though I'm not replying to my emails anyway and you paid me money.

She keeps talking about professionalism, yet she's not showing any of it. You can't take on a job and then go "eh, I'm just not FEELING up to talking to people today" - work and life doesn't work that way. I understand feeling depressed, I understand art blocks, but by god you keep your commissioners in the loop! And they don't even HAVE to be understanding about it, it's just nice when they are.

Date: 2013-05-25 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zackfig.livejournal.com
*spittake*

Date: 2013-05-25 01:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zackfig.livejournal.com
It -shouldnt- matter.

Your post is completely valid.

Date: 2013-05-25 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deejthistle.livejournal.com
Wow, that last paragraph.

Blaming your customers, especially when you haven't previously established ONLY CONTACT ME AT _______... no thanks. Beware definitely earned :T

Date: 2013-05-25 05:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marus-puppy.livejournal.com
Anxiety over situations like this is a very real thing. I have similar problems when it comes to contacting people. What's completely inappropriate is her blaming her customers for trying to contact her through other means! Either respond to their contacts or contact them yourself.

Date: 2013-05-25 08:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
She should not be taking commissions. Period.

You don't walk into a store, ask for a service, and then be expected to wait weeks, months, years, for a result just because the clerk "doesn't feel up to dealing with people."

It's unprofessional.

And the worst part about it?
She ignores the majority of her e-mails too. I wouldn't at all be surprised if people are taking things to her page BECAUSE she won't respond to her e-mails.

I had to publicly[and politely] request an e-mail on her FA page before I received any sort of word from her.

I both understand and empathize with how a social anxiety can wreak havoc on someone's life and ability to be communicative, but. If it's directly hindering your ability to run as a well oiled machine while taking commissions, you really, really should not be taking them! It's just adding onto the already existing strain.
Edited Date: 2013-05-25 08:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-26 10:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolf-goat.livejournal.com
I think it's unreasonable if someone goes and hunts out your personal info, like a personal IM account or personal email and starts trying to use it (though..the fact they're being ignored here kinda calls even that into question) but the fact that she listed these things as acceptable contact methods just gives her zero room to complain. You can't just go "well I gave you those email addresses but YOU WEREN'T MEANT TO USE THEM, GAWD". Anxiety or no, that's stupid.

Date: 2013-05-26 11:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bladespark.livejournal.com
Man, I'm torn on how I feel about this... I have a lot of sympathy for ending up in a situation like this, I've been dealing with depression that's making keeping up with my commissions into an absolute nightmare. Life happens like that, honestly. But I've never just ignored anybody who contacted me with concerns! That feels like it's crossing some kind of line. But then depression isn't anxiety, messages aren't what sets off my issue. Maybe if they were I'd feel differently? It's *really* hard to deal with mental illness and keep one's life running, so I don't want to just condemn her, but it's not fair to her customers either!

Date: 2013-05-27 05:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sableantelope.livejournal.com
Really, if she is being so emotionally tortured by this situation all she has to do is refund the money and wash her hands of it.

It's as simple as that.

If she was irresponsible and already spent the money before she delivered the product, (delivering the product being her way to actually earn the right to spend that money) then she brought this on herself and I can't summon up an sympathy.

Her condition of anxiety I understand from my own issues with very serious clinical anxiety. Many years ago I had to give up a job I loved(piano accompanist for my local opera society) because the stress of preforming was just killing me.

I had tried through different kinds of medications and therapies to handle it- the truth was I just could not as much as I in general enjoyed the job my mental illness had other ideas.
So it really, really sucked. But I had to be a mature adult and suck it up and do what I had to do.

I couldn't take their money and not perform.

I think it's really nice that you want to try and summon up some empathy for her, but she dug her own grave one this one.

No doubt the guilt of basically stealing the money by not delivering product is actually much more difficult for her psyche to handle- than emails from a customer asking about their purchase. It think that would be the case for most honest people who would never set out to try and be a thief.

I would have more respect for her situation if she admitted that, than trying to convince herself she's not in the wrong by blaming customers' valid contact for her emotional state.
Edited Date: 2013-05-27 05:16 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-26 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] armaina.livejournal.com
Well, maybe they wouldn't show up at your proverbial house if you would just answer the emails in the first place.

Seriously, if you can't manage that, don't take commissions, or find some way of doing them that works for both you and the client.

Date: 2013-05-26 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tropicalblaze.livejournal.com
................What?

So getting electric mail is like monsters kicking down your door first thing in the morning.

No, sorry I can't imagine how that feels and if that is how they feel they either need to disable notes and other forms of contact or stop taking commissions.

I love their art but that's a bit ridiculous.

Beware warranted.

Date: 2013-05-27 05:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ominous-pants.livejournal.com
good to know i wasn't the only person completely put off by that journal.

Date: 2013-05-25 04:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayla-na.livejournal.com
$35 isn't really pricey for a sketch; more on the cheaper side imo.

But that's a damn shame, I really liked Nathradas' art. x.x

Date: 2013-06-16 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
Just curious; have you had any luck getting a hold of her from your end?

Date: 2013-06-16 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
...geez.
I'm in the same boat as well; two e-mails from around when she posted the journal and no reply from her whatsoever.

Date: 2013-06-21 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deejthistle.livejournal.com
She's been streaming fairly often, if that helps either of you :C Not sure what your time zones are, but, in EST, it's typically early-ish in the day, before noon.

Date: 2013-06-21 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
Yeah, I've been getting her Stream notifications in my inbox, but unfortunately, they're always at a time where I'm at work[before noon for my time zone as well].

I don't really want to have to drag everything onto her pages, but I can't help but feel as though confronting her in a stream will be the only way to even get some kind of response out of her. I mean. The last time she replied to one of my e-mails was back in February.

I'm also going to talk to my bank today and see if there's anything they can do, but I'm not holding my breath as its been almost two years since I sent her payment.

Date: 2013-06-21 03:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
Here's to hoping she responds to you- something, anything.

I sent her an e-mail yesterday when her first streaming notification popped up[I can check FA from my phone, but I can't view any streams], just asking for some form of acknowledgement towards this issue. Still waiting for a reply.

Date: 2013-06-23 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
Oh wow, and no announcement about making a switch or anything? D=

Thank-you so much for pointing out the new email to me; I think I'd have spent some time needlessly messaging the other one otherwise. Hahahaha.
Just sent her a message to that account. Fingers crossed.

Date: 2013-06-25 12:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerospiritual.livejournal.com
That's awesome to hear!

I received a reply as well, though no sort of deadline as to when I'll be seeing a refund and I'm now waiting on a reply as to whether or not she would rather notify me when its ready or if I should just continue to check back regularly.

Re: Resolved.

Date: 2013-09-11 02:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kerstin-orion.livejournal.com
Sorry for the delay; going back through old emails. I'm glad you got your refund and I will mark the post as resolved.

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