Responding to "freeloaders"

[thecreativepen.livejournal.com]

I'm sure many of us have experience with this issue, and I'd like to get some input.

I get a lot of inquiries from people about helping them with logos, drawings, custom products, ect. And quite often, I get a blank face and "you're going to charge me?" or "you can't do this for free? It won't take long", when I bring up my rates. What's the best way to explain to someone that this is a business, and that time/effort/supplies do not come for free?

I really don't know how to confront this anymore, as people don't seem to understand when I explain the previous to them. And even if I don't have outstanding work, that doesn't mean that my free time should be used for an unpaid job either. I've invested hundreds of dollars in my Adobe bundle, camera equipment, art supplies, ect. I don't break even on those by giving out free art.

Also, in regards to contracts: I've decided to require a contract, or an email stating the expectations of the project for everyone, including friends. If you have any personal experiences working with friends, or how you did your contract, I'd really like to hear them.

Comments

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

"What's the best way to explain to someone that this is a business, and that time/effort/supplies do not come for free?"
I think you answered this yourself. I'd just say that "I do this as a business and my time and effort does not come free". If they can't grasp that, I don't think you're required to try to explain it or continue the dialog, just end it politely. At best you could do a comparison that they understand, like "would you do your work free".

If they originally thought they'd get free work out of you, they're not likely to shell out any money no matter how hard you try to educate them and if this is a common issue, you could use the time to do better things.

Of course there's things like "should I work for free" chart and "what if all businesses were expected to work free" floating around the internet, which might work as rebuttals if linked but I'd avoid them.

[thecreativepen.livejournal.com]

See, I try that. And it seems to always be a conversation that goes in one ear, and out the other. With one friend, they wanted a full sleeve drawn up. When I quoted them, they disregarded everything I said, and said I would be getting "free advertising".

I like your "would you work for free" comment a lot. I think that's a good way to give people some perspective when they're asking me to spend hours and my supplies on their project.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

I die a little bit inside every time I hear that "free advertising" speech. It's like saying to a decorator, paint my house for free because it'll give you free advertising. No, it doesn't work that way.

Actually when I started out I did do a few jobs free and I can say, even to this day, I have never got any work because of those pieces...

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Very simply put, explain that you want to make a regular wage just like everyone else on the planet. It's not terribly difficult to do when put in that sort of context. It's just part of being a freelancer, as many folks take artists for granted. Just have to politely educate them on it, as it's usually just ignorance of the subject.

Or simply say "Sorry, I don't have time for non-paying work right now! Thanks for the interest!" and leave it at that.

As far as contracts, there's lots of information about how to draw up a professional contract, in fact so much that I'm sure there's some here in the AB tags if you look!

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

be careful with the use of "right now", though. it implies that non-paying work is something that you do, and might think if they ask again later you may have time

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Ah good point! I generally don't mind being asked later, because sometimes I do a few volunteer projects (If it's in my interest, like game dev work for funsies) however I totally agree with you there.

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

I respond with "I don't do free art, sorry!" and if they push it, I block them.

[thecreativepen.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately there's no block button for real life conversations. I wish it was that simple. :(
But that seems to be a good way to address it. Short, sweet, and to the point.

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I wish we could block people IRL :D

I used to waffle and give reasons, but I am short and to the point in person. if they press it, i give a ridiculous quote which is way higher than I'd charge anyone else. I told my family that my family rate is double my normal rates.

They got a little offended, but it also caused them to stop asking me for free art.

[kontonakuma.livejournal.com]

I would respond with "What would you say to someone who wants to hire you for a real job with absolutely no pay?" Honestly, if telling them you don't do work for free doesn't get it through their heads, I don't think any other response would as most responses are variants of each other.

[greenreaper.livejournal.com]

I'd use HollyAnn's "If Furry Artists were Vending Machines (http://hollyann.deviantart.com/art/Vending-Machine-Furry-Artists-30823032)" to respond to freeloaders.

[chesshiress.livejournal.com]

I love that one!

[growly.livejournal.com]

If it's an email interaction, I'd just... not reply if they ask you to work for free. I am kind of an "explainer", I used to like to explain why I can't work for free, why my prices are what they are, etc, but I've found that is a waste of time and invites arguments and pleading.

[pyroro.livejournal.com]

Really glad this showed up as it's been on my mind as well.. I'm not active in the furry community but I do many anime/cosplay drawings, tattoo designs and the like and have been approached about some to be used. Although it is my hobby for me it's a main source of income to alot of people. Even as a hobby art supplies are expensive and I never seem to get people to understand that not only is it my time but my supplies being put into the work.

[exo-formicidae.livejournal.com]

I really really enjoy making gift art and requests, however, if I do this on an "all request" basis then I would be flooded and it would bring stress to my personal and commissioned work. I solved this by putting up a list, where anyone can write their name and write/link a reference, and I draw them in the order they wrote themselves up in. This list have two rules - I will draw from the list when I have time/feel like it, and there are no guarantee it will be exactly as requested, as I require some artistic liberty with free work.

The reason I bring this up, is so if someone wants something for free I can refer them to the list and say I will eventually get to them, or they can pay for a regular commission, since paid work gets top priority and is done exactly is described.

I feel this isn't rude, but still firm. Then again, this might work very well for me, and not so well for others :)

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

I personally wouldn't waste my time trying to convince anyone who seemed reluctant to pay an artist for their time. The kind of client who thinks that somehow art-related work should be free probably has other unprofessional opinions and habits that would make them a pain in the butt client, so you are just dodging a bullet, really. There are many other potential clients out there who already get it and don't need convincing, so focus on them. For all inquiries, I have a standard sort of reply that briefly outlines the process of getting on my commissions queue, including the fact that I provide a price quote at the start and that roughly half the final price is required as a non-refundable deposit at the start, to lock in their place in the queue. If they replied asking for a discount or free art, at most I would just say my rates/deposit are not negotiable and wish them a nice day.

And your friends should understand why its important for you to be paid for your time. If you decide of your own volition to make them free art, that's your prerogative, but no friend should *expect* free art just because they know you.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

I agree with what the other people said re: those individuals who don't get that you can't do work for free. Some people honestly don't know and a bit of education for them can go a long way, others will argue with you about it and you probably don't want to work for those types anyway.

As to working for friends (or family members, for that matter), honestly I usually avoid it. If I do work, it's as a gift. And I do gifts infrequently enough that my friends/family understand that when I do decide to do a gift, it's a big deal. (Also I'm lucky, my entire immediate family is made of artists of various sorts, so we're all well aware of exactly what kind of time, effort, and materials art takes and how obnoxious it is to be nagged for free stuff.)

That being said, if you decide to work for friends, treat it exactly as you would work for a stranger. Make it clear from the beginning that they are not an exception to your business rules--you don't have to be rude about it, but if you don't stand your ground on your business terms it is very, very easy for things to turn bad between friends. Which is why I usually avoid it, I'd rather do infrequent gifts and keep my friends than accidentally have a business deal go bad and lose friends.

[sand-ninja07.livejournal.com]

If someone messages me wanting free or discounted work, I just ignore them. If they're persistent, I block them. I already have it outlined in my FAQ page in detail why I will not work for free. It's not my problem if they can't be bothered to take the time to read and comprehend my policies prior to contacting me.

Very few people in real life even know that I am an artist. Situations like this are EXACTLY why I am selective about who I will share my work with in real life. If they don't know what I do, then they can't bug me for free work.

The next time someone approaches you for free work, ask them, "Would YOU do your job for free?". If they still don't get it after that, they are not worth any more of your time.

-A-chan

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

I respond to a lot of emails with "No, sorry." Simple and it doesn't invite them to argue with you if you don't list reasons. I used to try and explain things when I declined them (wholesale requests, quantity discounts, bloggers trying to get free stuff, etc) but it took up a lot of my time.

I do my best to actually respond though, even if it's just those two words. I feel like purposefully ignoring emails/notes/etc isn't the best option. Who knows if they'll be paying customers later? Best not to turn them off completely by ignoring them.

[lunasilvertail.livejournal.com]

"What's the best way to explain to someone that this is a business, and that time/effort/supplies do not come for free?"

Tell them that directly, although it doesn't seem like that is working in this case.

Depending on your client (if you know him personally this may work, but if it's a professional type of situation, a simple "I do not do speculative/free work, I'm sorry, but I can not take your request." would do. Then ignore if it continues. It would be very unprofessional if they continued to contact you after "no." No matter what he comes back with, ignore it.)

Otherwise, compare it to a computer repair man or a car repair man. Most people can relate to this in some form or another.

When a computer (or car) goes down, most people will call or hire a computer technician to check it out. Then ask them "so when he's done fixing the computer, do you not pay him, because he got into the computer fixing business because he likes and enjoys computers?" or "So you tell him that his payment is that you will show other people the computer that he fixed?"

The problem is that these people see it as a hobby, not something that you do as a service. If you fix computers, then most likely you will fix your own when it's broken. If not, then there's a guy you call on to do it for you because you can't do it yourself. If your company needs a logo to make their company look attractive or art work on a dry article about economics so people don't die from boredom before the end of it, since they can't draw it themselves, they HIRE a person who PROVIDES A SERVICE of drawing the art. If you want a painting on your wall, or of your ideas, and can't draw them yourself? Hire a person who provides that SERVICE.

I find a lot of people will back off or sometime even apologize if you do explain it like that to them. For the ones who won't... they aren't a good person to be working for or with anyways. You aren't loosing much business wise from refusing to do their work.

(Sorry for the text wall, but man this topic ruffles my feathers!)

[coraki.livejournal.com]

This isn't about art, but the idea is similar.

When I use to work in pet trade. I was told a story by a pet store owner who was specialized with fish. He said this customer came in with sick fish, wanting him to help make them better. He did help the first time for free, perhaps thinking the customer would come back and buy fish from him. The customer came back again later wanting him to fix more sick fish. The store owner refused, asking instead where he got the fish. The customer responded "Wal-mart". The store owner asked what the customer does for a living. The customer responded he was mechanic. The store owner then posed the question "If I took my car to one shop to have it fixed and then they didn't fix the problem. Could I bring it to you to fix their mistake for free?" At that point it clicked to the customer. He bought the medicine needed and from then on only bought fish from the pet store.

When you're good at something everyone, expects you to do it for free, like they're doing you a favor. I often have to relate with their skills when it comes to photography, that I spend a lot of time on.

An artist whom I can't remember had a wonderful quote. "It may've taken me 5 minutes to make that drawing, but took me 18 years to learn how to draw that in 5 minutes." or something like that.

/csb

[thaily.livejournal.com]

"What's the best way to explain to someone that this is a business, and that time/effort/supplies do not come for free?"

Because you have bills to pay and this is your job, the electric company, the phone bills, water and waste, mortgage; none of these companies will accept "You can't provide me your services for free? It won't take long!" as payment.
You don't have time to do handouts because you need to work for paying customers to make ends meet. And odds are, the person asking you doesn't work for free either, they expect a paycheck at the end of the month. If at the end of a month of work their boss told them "Oh you didn't do that for free?" they'd be super pissed and up shit creek without a paddle because they can't pay their bills.
To ask that of you is incredibly presumptuous.

So in short, why don't you work for free? Because you have bills to pay and this is your job. And they also get paid for their job; asking you to do otherwise is a dick move.

As for working with friends, I have a fairly clear TOS and make them read it. I've done logos and we discuss the terms beforehand. I've not had any issues yet, knock on wood.

[the-vol.livejournal.com]

When I run into people insisting I do free work for them, I usually just tell them that the time used on their free project is time I have reserved for jobs that pay my bills, so if they want my attention, they need to show me the money. It may make me seem greedy or petty or whatnot in their eyes, but I don't really care because I know why I deserve to be paid and if they can't see that, it's not my problem.

So my advice would be to simply stay polite, but firm and don't get baited into arguing about it. Many times these people do realize why they should pay you, they just don't want to, so they'll disregard everything you say no matter how reasonable your arguments are.

[duster.livejournal.com]

Very simple: Time is money. The time spent on free stuff that "won't take long" (air quotes because it always takes long) is time that could've been spent on paid projects. You have bills that need to be paid and freebies don't do it.

For customers who reeeeally don't get it I ask if they would do walk my dogs a block for free, since one vlock doesn't take that long to walk.

In all honesty as soon as the "can't you do it for free? It won't take long" card gets pulled my motivation to do anything for that customer drops to zero.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

I feel your pain as I also get asked to work for free on a weekly basis and there is an art to saying No. Most successful creative people say no to a lot of things because they guard their time as precious and it's easily eaten away by things 'that won't take long'.

And it's even more tricky when it's a face to face conversation. It's easier if it's email as I can simply say that I'm not able to take on unpaid work as i'm too busy but face to face you're forced to try and explain the reasons.

I've had a couple of uncomfortable moments with family and friends when they've wanted me to do art based stuff that was either very difficult, time consuming or out of my skill set and I've had to say no. They were really put out and unpleasant towards me for a while but they eventually got over it.

As for contracts, as a basic guide they should contain at least-
*Your details (name, contact, address if required etc)
*Client's details
*Job description
*Deadlines (for work/payments)
*Prices
*Usage/copyrights/moral rights
*Date
*Signature (or equivalent agreement, such as replying yes to contract email)
Doesn't need to be anything too complicated!

Children's books

[alpharaye.livejournal.com]

Several years ago I illustrated two children's books for my sister in law's mother.

All drawings were mixed media artworks of animals approximately less then 8x10 in size.
For both books they ranged from 15-20 small pieces each. I had no specified deadline but the "ASAP" was applied with periodic calls for updates from my "client".

The first one I got 50 copies of the book to sell as my payment. I wasn't too displeased with the arrangement. I have, however, in about 7 years sold 8 books.

Normally for a project of this size I would have charged about $200. She was on a limited budget so I took the offer of a set of books as payment instead. I should have reduced my price and took less books or something.

And she went to a vanity pressed and paid to have them printed.

The second book I gave her drawings on my niece's 6th birthday. My niece will be 10 this year and I have yet to see the second book. Which was suppose to include the first one and an ISBN for both so we could sell them in bookstores if we wanted or online.

I was informed there was going to be a 3rd book [by which time I didn't want to do anymore] but that I didn't have to do it, there would be someone at the printing house they would pay to illustrate it. WAT EXCUSE ME.

And in the meantime my sister in law's best friend who is an amatuer fashion designer ended up illustrating the 3rd book. Which got printed. I saw it last week. Can't say the notion doesn't hurt my feelings just a little.

Needless to say I learned from this situation:
1. Do not do work w/o a contract for anyone.
2. Payment in the form of merchandise to sell isn't sufficient, some sort of actual payment should be made. [this is my opinion, your views may differ]
3. Family should be treated like customers, while you might discount work for them, it still is a business transaction. Art is a talent that not everyone has but I will be damned if they don't want to take advantage of it alot of the time.
4. Sometimes you will do things to pad your artistic resume, despite however the outcome might end up, and how annoying the situation is.

Hope that helps. :)

Re: Children's books

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Ugh, have you tried putting the books on Etsy or something? Amazon takes books without ISBN too I believe?

Oh and as an edit, if you want to do discount or free art for someone, make a bill stating how much they would have paid and then add in the charitable discount.
- If you work professionally you can also declare this with taxes.
- It keeps people from thinking your services are worthless, because they see how much it would have cost them.

Re: Children's books

[intj-reflection.livejournal.com]

This may or may not have changed in the last three years, so please keep that in mind, but I can state that the ISBN has previously been a requirement for listing books with Amazon.

(Though, the procedures I'm acquainted with for Vanity Presses/Small Independent publishers includes acquiring ISBNs for publications.)

Re: Children's books

[alpharaye.livejournal.com]

The original book has no ISBN for what reason I don't know why.
The second book I did illustrate was suppose to combine both books and get an ISBN.
And I never have seen the second book come to fruition. And honestly, I really don't care if I ever do.

Re: Children's books

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

If it's already listed on Amazon, then you don't need an ISBN. You only need an ISBN (and a paid Amazon seller's account) in order to list a new (not previously listed on Amazon) book for sale.

Same goes for anything else, but requires a UPC instead of an ISBN. :)

Re: Children's books

[alpharaye.livejournal.com]

Good notion to make a bill or itemized statement and write it off as charity. I never thought about that.

And honestly, I wouldn't really WANT to put these books on Etsy. The writing is frankly not that great and most of my buddies who have seen them have a good chuckle with me over the whole matter.

Plus I can't find them anyhow, they went MIA when we moved a couple of years ago and I'm not that heartbroken over the notion of them being gone.

But good suggestions!

Re: Children's books

[kasune.livejournal.com]

Family should be treated like customers, while you might discount work for them, it still is a business transaction. Art is a talent that not everyone has but I will be damned if they don't want to take advantage of it alot of the time.

THANK YOU. Seriously, I can't even begin to tell you how much flack I've gotten from family for not wanting to do art for them for free. Jeez! I tell them business is business, but for some reason family thinks they're automatically entitled. Art is hardly respected as a career and a strenuous job.

Re: Children's books

[alpharaye.livejournal.com]

:) Glad we feel the same way.
And don't feel bad. I had a cousin post on my FB recently about painting murals for her after I posted pictures of my daughter's in progress nursery and furniture that I have been working on.

I told her I would do whatever at a discounted rate.
I got told "lol u suck".

Pardon me, it's my time, energy and effort.
About the only way your gonna get free art from me is in the form of a gift. I am at that point.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Pretty much all the above. A polite "I'm not taking unpaid projects, but my rates are __ if interested" is a good response. Echoing asking whoever it is if they would do x hours of free labor for you if they don't take the first "no thanks" for an answer and it's someone you have a fairly invested relationship with.

Finally, you don't really owe people an explanation, "no means no" and all that. If they don't take one or two polite refusals then they are not respecting your boundaries and it's time to set them firmly. Strategies involve changing the topic whenever they bring it up and if they try to ignore that tell them flat out "I said no, please respect that" etc. Leave if they STILL keep at it.

[xubunturambles.livejournal.com]

If your customers dont understand reason, like all these fine fellows have posted previously, then you should give them a blunt response.

The old "Well you wouldnt just take a bunch of stuff from a grocery store without paying, would you?" thing always works :>