(no subject)

[sekotta.livejournal.com]

WHO:
Dogbone, RainbowJokerHound

WHERE:
https://inkbunny.net/DogBoneArtWork
https://twitter.com/DogBoneArtWork

WHAT:
Originally a $140 Dollar YCH that I was outbid on but then asked if I still wished for a piece for that price I had bid.
http://i.imgur.com/VlB3Y7S.jpg?1

WHEN:
I ordered this on May 3rd. I Gave her free paws at first.
http://i.imgur.com/LIsbI82.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/cat1Ayt.png?1
Through the progression of this, I had to give an actual idea of my own on June 29
http://i.imgur.com/pkMWcVn.png
WIP was received on August 2
http://i.imgur.com/XzAOz3F.png
Finished Work received on August 14

PROOF:
Here is proof that I paid for my work.
http://i.imgur.com/a4xEuG5.png
http://i.imgur.com/xMhIZNT.png

EXPLAIN:
I had originally bid on a YCH Auction. I had lost, but was prompted to buy a commission still through a PM from both her and her mate. The PMs from her are above in the WHEN section and in the WHAT section. I went ahead and payed for it, unknowing to the fact that she was supposed to do a WIP first. But she accepted my money anyway, my fault, I'm aware. She said she was in the middle of a move and she was without internet so i waited. A month later though on June 3rd I figured it was okay to see how she was faring with my work.

http://i.imgur.com/1MaX6kt.png

I didn't get any responses, and I also noted I wasn't even on her que list

http://i.imgur.com/VBRbqMJ.png (also, it was 140, not 145)

I finally got a response and she had told me she hadn't even started on it yet, and needed an idea. That's in the WHAT Section of what I gave her. A little over a week of waiting, I notice again, I'm not even on que, nor have I received a WIP or anything. So I email again.

http://i.imgur.com/dNrzAVt.png
http://i.imgur.com/fvpjVhH.png
http://i.imgur.com/WSedRh8.png
http://i.imgur.com/Qbt6f9p.png
http://i.imgur.com/MMvc2GR.png
http://i.imgur.com/wZCwsEm.png
http://i.imgur.com/8Ap6q77.png

So, to cap. She 'forgot' who i was, then tried to tell me that I was 'behind other commissions' even though she said that already a month ago. Though 'more' than two artworks had been posted up between this time. I showed her a screen cap even of her saying that I would be next after those 'as she had said'. So she apologized and 'remembered' and promised to have it at least by the end of the month. Once it was the end of the month, with no WIP or anything again, I email her.

http://i.imgur.com/l5sSWyv.png
http://i.imgur.com/XzAOz3F.png

She again didn't have it done and she only had a basic sketch 'after' the month. A week later with no update i email again to see if she had progressed.

http://i.imgur.com/es9zDp4.png
http://i.imgur.com/esIXXG0.png

She just reverts me back to the previous WIP. So at this point of having to wait nearly 3 1/2 months for my piece I ask for either the finished work, or my money back.

I finally received my artwork, two days after that. And also to note that all the while i was waiting for mine. She was pushing out 'other' commissions that she claimed to be old. Even though that some of them were YCH Auction pieces that were prompted 'after' my commission.

And so with this whole ordeal in mind. I warn you all about this artist. This isn't the first time she's done this. But I wanted to show that she is 'still' up to it, and it doesn't matter if its a small or big amount, the result is still the same.

Comments

[duster.livejournal.com]

Lemme see if I got this right; you lost an art auction but she still asked you if you wanted a commission slot?

Am I the only one who finds that a little strange?

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

She's addicted to money. She uses the fact people are literally lining up at the door for her art to rely on people who were previously outbid, but conveniently had high bids to make more income, privately.

At least that's what i'm getting here.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's that strange, if you know you have someone interested and the amount their offering is acceptable then there's potential for dealing.
I've had it on Ebay, I was outbid on some items and the seller offered a second identical lot they had to me for my out-bid amount and that was fine.
It's more of an issue here when the artist has taken on too much work etc.

[stolenmilkcrate.livejournal.com]

As mentioned it's kind of like ebay's second-chance offers (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/second_chance_offer.html). The artist made what they wanted from the auction winner, perhaps above what they were expecting, and they were OK selling the same service/item to the next highest bidder as well - they don't make quite as much, but it's still a level of payment they're willing to accept.

This is really only an issue if the artist is backlogged and mismanaging their queue, as it seems to be in this case.

As an artist the second-chance offer thing might only work well until it gets out that you do make those offers; people might not tend to bid as hard for top slot because hey, there might be a second chance coming my way.

[sekotta.livejournal.com]

Yes, she said she needed money for a move and was taking commissions to help pay for it.

[xubunturambles.livejournal.com]

that is so shady, i just can't even..

[deejthistle.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to figure out her response here (http://i.imgur.com/esIXXG0.png). Did you have your references on FA? (As far as I know, she's already permabanned from the site, so I'm not sure how it relates to finishing your commission.)

[mistsage.livejournal.com]

The reference pictures that were given to her, were from Furaffinity

http://i.imgur.com/pkMWcVn.png

So, even though i don't see why she didn't save the pictures, she could pull that excuse. Though, now that you mention it. Don't you have to be able to log in to see adult rated pieces?

(I'm mist btw, apart of the commission in topic and also roommate, witness to this whole ordeal)

[deejthistle.livejournal.com]

Oops, my bad. The URL for direct linking never seems to register as FA in my head.

And apparently you can skirt around filters as long as you use the direct link to the image. Though even if she didn't want to save them, she could've easily asked for an alternate link to the refs, especially since she was in direct contact with the commissioner.

[mistsage.livejournal.com]

Exactly my thoughts

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

She can't pull that excuse about being banned when she was given direct-links unless she was IP banned and has a static IP. I get direct-links frequently for reference material and I am not on FA.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

ok here let me explain.
you werent on my queue because i still considered what you got to be a YCH not a commission. so theres that.

you paid 140 for a "single character" anything goes auction. but you got two characters.. and the original price for you to pay was 155. i have it in my notes if i must show you.

and yes i was ip banned so i couldnt use any of the reffs you sent me.
i had explained everything to you on skype. i was going to copy paste it here but you arent in my contacts anymore and i cnt find a way to retrive the old convo.

i believe you thought you were going to get full detail.
but you got a detailed sketch, i THINK you asked me if youd pay more for it to be updated (dont quote me on this im not too sure) but i said no because that would require me to redo the whole image. and wouldnt have really been worth the added amount. plus you paid me to where there was a 5 dollar fee so i didnt get all what i asked.

in reality based on YCH rules not commission rules you got what you paid for
pricing for my YCH auctions
Price Guide:
5-80$ - colored sketch
85-150$ - flat color inked
200-300+$ - full detail


you paid 140. you got just that
i actually put more effort in it than i should.

so i didnt do anything wrong really.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Hold up! This part struck me pretty strongly...
"plus you paid me to where there was a 5 dollar fee so i didnt get all what i asked."

That's on you, the artist. Not the client. If you wanna make $140 flat, you need to charge appropriately by including fees in your standard pricing (Paypal fees: $.30 transaction fee, and 2.9% of the transaction. I highball that to $0.33 per $1USD).

Although in an auction-style setting you get what you get because you shouldn't be asking clients to pay more to 'cover fees' or paying via gifting options to avoid them completely.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

there is a fee only if the person pays with their bank,
if they use their paypal balance there is no fee. that is wht im talking about . im not trying to say that it was a big deal for me a lot of clients send me payments with fees so its what ever to me.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

But... you were saying it was a big deal.

Complaining that you did not get all "your money" to the OP of this post... IS treating it like a big deal.

If that isn't want you wanted to come across like, you probably need to start proof-reading before you hit the 'post comment' button.

And... regardless of how you see it. To a lot of the members here a YCH auction is still a style of commissioning someone! Its just that instead of the client coming up with the scene, etc... its pretty much prepared FOR them. So for you not to queue your YCH along with your other commissions? Its perfectly reasonable to give pause to that.

Especially if that is a majority of what you do.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

my commissions and YCH are filed differently there are different forms for them.

i had on that jornal the price list of what you get depending on what you bid.

sekotta should have known that already.

[mistsage.livejournal.com]

He was not placed on 'any' such que. And don't forget the fact that you posted up a ych piece 'after' his was taken. The auction and the finished work.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

your right he wasnt placed on any such queue FOR THE PUBLIC TO SEE. lol

and yes i may have posted an auction or two but surely they were easier than what he wanted, im not good at drawing hardware most if not all my auctions usually dont contain a whole room set up with work out equipment.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Then next time when someone gives you a tough subject, tell them you'd prefer something else. Do NOT accept a commission where you know you'll have issues with the content. At any point you could have declined the material, or offered your own idea.

(This was a YCH wasn't it? The point is that you come up with the pose and idea, not the customer.)

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

How is a YCH not a commission? They paid you money for art, by all rights that is the definition OF A COMMISSION.

Beware super duper earned here.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

the difference is that for the YCH there are set limmits on what a certain bid will allow
Price Guide:
5-80$ - colored sketch
85-150$ - flat color inked
200-300+$ - full detail

if the person wants full detail they will either bid the amount it would take or they can just commission me normally.

im not always open for commissions but im allways doing YCHs

YCH arent custom like a commission is.

[sekotta.livejournal.com]

First of all I paid for the commission since thats what it was and I paid in full, your prices at the time were different but I can't prove that so it's useless to argue that fact, secondly I Received a message from you wanting to know if I wanted to buy a slot for the 140 which I agreed two and is posted above in the links. As for YCH, that means you have a pose,you have an idea, and you have it done within the time limit you tell some one. You failed on all of these and did not follow through for months. I supplied the scene the pose and since I had to wait for months after you told me you would have it done I don't feel bad at all for asking for another char to be in it since you never specified in any messages it was limited to me and treated it as a commission I asked you said yes so that should not be up for any debate or argument since you agreed to it.

[sekotta.livejournal.com]

As for you doing anything wrong, yes you have, you took months longer than it should have, you accepted my payment before I even saw a sketch, you didn't contact me for weeks at a time. You didn't follow your own TOS so in that case they shouldn't apply to me if you won't obey them. In short, you are very unprofessional and I noticed other commissioners letting other know this is happened in the past and I saw they were resolved I posted this not for drama but to let people know your still up to your same old tricks and they should be wary.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

wait wait wait.. you think its ok for me to draw you something BEFORE you pay me?? lol hahaha idk what your thinking but fuck no i dont know any one who would do that lol

[sekotta.livejournal.com]

Your TOS says I dont have to pay shit till I see and approve a sketch....at least read your own TOS x.x

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

where does it say that ? i read it 3 times just now and i didnt see a single thing that said that

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

no it was an ANYTHING GOES YOUR CHARACTER HERE AUCTION. meaning there was no preset lines. mkay?

you knew and even stated that durring the time of that i was moving to a new house and i was banned from fa.
i went about 4 weeks with out internet becuase my apt didnt have it yet. and commissions are my main priority over auctions OF ANY TYPE.
and im not complaining that you got a second character in the image. i let you have it cause it didnt matter. but by auction rules and pricin you got what you paid for maybe alittle more detail.

anything that has to do with bidding isnt a standard commission it is an auction. so yes . i tried explaining this to you over skype but you seemed to have ignored it and removed me. i have people who are big in the commissioning thing for big name artists and they somewhat agree with me on this.

[sekotta.livejournal.com]

...I paid just like the commissioners why would they get to get there arts first over me? if you can't get things out on time don't do YCH as well as commissions. It is in no way my fault you were moving lost internet or were banned so stop blaming all this on me since none of this is my problem. Man up and apologize and start keeping promises you make and I will consider this resolved until then. This is to warn artists about the bullshit that comes with your art at this moment in time.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

did i say i was blameing you ? no. im just trying to clear things up a little bit so its not JUST one sided. besides the whole waiting thing
if you had paid attention to the pricing for the auction you would have known what you were getting and wouldnt have felt cheated.
im sorry i didnt get it done when i said i would but oh well shit happens in life. and they get theirs first because they paid well ahead of you..

not to mention the idea you asked of me wasnt all that great it was boring to me so that MIGHT have been a factor as to why it took longer than it should but in the end i still got it done. and i know that its not right to do that but on top of other things i had to do.

so yes let us drop this whole thing im not going to ask you to take down the journal. by all means you have the right to say what you said. i just wanted to let others know my side aswell:)

have a good day

[sekotta.livejournal.com]

Shit happens in life ya but if your boss said he needed a paper done and you said you would have it done in a month and you didn't follow through and he got in trouble your ass would be fired or at least suffer consequences so ya not my problem don;t make a promise you can;t keep.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Note: You cannot remove bewares once they are posted, so Sekotta cannot "take down" this post, even if you were to ask.

[mistsage.livejournal.com]

First off, he paid before many others, along with those personal works and then the fact you kept posting things with no 'month' of absence. A week maybe, but you had works up consistently.

Also to note, it was indeed in your process to draw a sketch before money, if you wish to try and grasp that rope, i'll direct everyone to the evidence.

The 'grade' of the work isn't in question either. It was the time and your overall interaction and treatment 'after' receiving the money.

The evidence is everywhere, I made sure of that.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

please show me where it says i do this, because as far as i know and every one else i told about this they cant seem to find it either

[mistsage.livejournal.com]

http://i.imgur.com/EgiOvvP.png

Since you took down the one you posted in the first artist beware of yours. I went to find 'you' stating it yourself.

The link is a little further down, but when you click it isn't there. I'm thankful to artist beware on the inability to delete comments though.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

thats not a reliable sorce at all ! lol if its not in my CURRENT tos then its not the rules.. those rules were over 3 years old. before i was even remotely popular in the fandom lol
so that is in no way my fault and its dumb of you guys to have used old rules as an excuse ESPECIALLY if they are no longer in my CURRENT tos.

lol i cant believe that you guys expected me to stand by rules that are no longer in use?? lol

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

not to mention this account itsself is old ive since then made a new one but for what ever dumb reason my computer didnt save the pasword.

so yeah.

gosh im laughing at the fact you tried to use my old rules on me.. that werent ever even posted to my tos on the websites!
i never used LJ as a way to keep my tos
that journal you speak of was more of a rant about an old commission icon issue. it wasnt seriously my main TOS

[mistsage.livejournal.com]

Well good luck.

I will be sure to warn any and all i know about your issues.

These two journals will be sufficient enough to deter most.

I hope you learn eventually and get your priorities straight.

[leachymonster.livejournal.com]

i have done nothing wrong other then take for ever on the image lol
you guys are the ones who used old outdated rules.
and expected an image done at regular commission based prices when the auction based ones were right infront of your faces. :/

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Take this into account: If you had "done nothing wrong", this post wouldn't have been allowed into our community. I'll clarify where you went wrong:

1.) Despite this being a YCH image, you asked the customer what they wanted. They asked for a custom image, this is no longer a YCH image if you, the artist, are not supplying a pose and general idea. This is a custom image, thus a regular commission. Thus you should have treated it as a regular commission regardless of how the money got into your hands.

2.) You took 3 months to offer a WIP, did you ever alert the customer to an eta of finishing? Did you keep in contact at all?

3.) You forgot the customer.

4.) You then make promises to finish the image, imposing your own deadline and then you go and break them. You've proven you're incredibly unreliable to work with.

5.) You expected the customer to eat the paypal fee, when thats entirely on you. Your account could easily become suspended for this, should you be reported.

6.) And lastly you come in here and defend something completely bogus such as "YCH aren't commissions" when clearly they are.

Based on your attitude in this post alone, I'd say you really are shooting yourself in the foot. You should listen to your PAYING customers when they have a valid complaint and then perhaps you won't end up here! But instead you're making yourself look 10x worse by throwing out ridiculous excuses.

Yeah, "nothing wrong" my butt.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying.

Anytime you accept money or payment of any kind, you are taking a commission. It does not matter if it's listed as a YCH, Auction, Custom Image, or otherwise. It is a -commission-. They pay you, you create work. The outcome is the same whether you list it as "this" or "that". It's the exact same thing.

You perhaps should not be running a business if you don't understand this basic principal.

It's up to YOU to explain in detail what the client will be receiving beforehand. It's up to YOU to hash out the details and clarify what it is they were paying for. It is up to YOU to finish the work you've paid for.

See where I'm going with this? The fault lies with you and only you, in this beware.

[sekotta.livejournal.com]

So much yes ^^^^