Zim Gekko, and commissions.

[completly-naked.livejournal.com]

At FWA a few weeks ago, I happen to come across Zim Gekko in the Artist Alley, I liked her work, and hey her badges were only $15, so I asked her about doing a badger for me, she said ok, took down my info, etc. I paid her my money, she told me to give her two hours and it would be done. I walk away, happy, with the transaction so far. Well, I actually give her three or fours hours before checking back in AA, which she was not in, I happen to pass her in the hall, and she says...."I had to take a break, I will be back in either tonight or in the morning" I say OK that's fine, and go about my business.

I checked in AA through the evening, just because me and my mate liked to look at the different art, but she was never in there, which was fine. So we checked back again in the morning (again just to look around, and yea, I was excited to get the badge) I find her there, in AA (still had a sign up for commissions, which , (plays a role later) she tells me that the badge is done, its in her room, and she will get someone to bring it down, Ok Great! So I check back a little later on, and she's no where to be found. Eventually, my mate see's her in the hall, and ask about it, and now there is an issue with the laminate (Though previously I had been told it was already done), ok so I say ok, and go on. I have been extremely patient about this whole thing, even telling my mate not to worry about it, that I will get my badge, etc.

I did not actually speak to her any more that day, but I did see her come down the hallway with a badge, laminated, and everything, but she did not stop to speak to me, or update me or anything. Sunday comes around, and she was never in AA, at least after 10:30 am. That's fine, I will find her on-line after the con, and see about getting my badge (though I was disappointed at not getting a new badge at FWA this year, I had another issue with another artist, that's been worked out). I get home on Monday after the con, and I have to google her name, as she did provide me with any contact info at all, so I find her FA account, and its linked to her new FA account. I drop a shout on the page, and say hey you did a badge for me, I never got to pick t up. She responds back the next day and says, oh yea its all ready, what's your addy, i can mail it to you. I provide her with my mailing address, and ask if I could get a scan, just to see it. Well, that was Tuesday, the 19th, I never got any response back after that, no scan, nothing. So 5 days ago I put another shout on her page, asking is she is going to respond to my messages. No response, So I posted a LJ entry in the FWA group about some left behind items in our room, and also a note there about how I hadn't gotten my badge, and no response from Zim. I will fully admit by this point I was a bit annoyed, and maybe impatient. Fact is I was told 2 hours, and it was strectching into week 2. So a day goes by no reponse whatsover, So I post one more shout on the FA page, asking if she mailed it, or if there was a problem, etc.

Well, now I get a response to my LJ post in FWA, form Zim, and it was rather mocking, and sarcastic. You can go read it for yourself. Now, at this point, I do believe I have a right to be annoyed, and even upset. So I respond back not nicely, and it all goes downhill from there. So now, no only do I still not have a badge, its now the 28th. The artist will not respond to me anymore, she will not provide a scan (proof she even did the badge), a date in which she mailed, nothing. She has however, taken the time to post about me in Artist Beware. Throwing out lies, and accusations of harrasment, she has let her friend post horrible things about me, calling me names, "blacklisting" me with other artist. But yet she cannot even answer to my complaints. Yes, I have some bad things too, but not until provoked. Yes two weeks may not be that long to wait for art, but when I was given a time frame of two hours, two weeks is a long time, especially with no apology, and in fact, quite the oppsite. She has come up with many different reasons as if to why the badge was not done, or hasn't arrived, ranging from the laminate issue, to her being sick (which for the record I was never told that she was sick, not feeling well, or that she could not complete the badge, for any reason), to its mailed, its not her problem any more. If the badge could not be completed, for whatever reason, I would have gladly taken my money back. If it is done, scan it, prove it, tell me a day in which is was mailed, something. Lastly, I am not writing this to start another flame war, to trash talk anyone. It is my side of the story, written calmly, coolly, and as objective as I can be on the subject.

Xposted to my own LJ, and Artist-Beware.

Edit:: The link to the FWA entry is as follows,

http://community.livejournal.com/furryweekend/188867.html

And I don't know how to 'edit' properly, call me simple I guess.

Comments

[lashiec.livejournal.com]

Please, for the love of God, format this post. I'll happily read both sides of this story then.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Wall of text puts people off of reading.

[cassu-bean.livejournal.com]

You may want to give us a link to FWA or something since most people aren't going to look for it themselves.

[samiitiger.livejournal.com]

You forget that artists have lives, too...

And for the love of $DEITY, format your bloody statement!

[completly-naked.livejournal.com]

I am full aware, and actually, despite the way it looks, an understanding person. The problem is there was a total lack of communication, and I believe that was on her.

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

2 weeks for a badge isn't horrible. In the post she did make, she wasn't 'calling you names', and nobody has said horrible things about you, simply that you are an extremely impatient person to work with.

I have heard of Zim-Gekko before, as a very good person to work with. I'd call this the exception not the rule. What you need to do, if you are going to pester someone about a badge so often, is send notes, etc. Not post publically on a page, especially over $15 dollars.

Honestly, I'm kind of leading towards her side, KNOWING ALREADY that she is a great person to work with as an artist, and knowing that she has in the past had nothing but good things said about her AS an artist. I don't doubt that someone with as much experience with selling badges, etc, would be far more better about the situation, as she said in her own post. This reads to me like a "revenge" posting? D: Sorry.

[completly-naked.livejournal.com]

Its not revenge, its jsut my side. Honestly thats it. I don't think Zim is a bad person, I loved her art. I think she's trying to make me out to be the bad guy, jsut to cover her reputation. I mean I can't prove 100% that she made up stuff or lied, jsut cause its my word against hers.

And yes, people were calling me an asshole, a tool, a drama queen, those are negative things.

[theblackdragon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, i think if i'd been told 'it'll be two hours' and it turned into more than two weeks with not even a scan to prove it was done in the first place, I'd be willing to start bringing things up in a public forum as well. sounds like this was a mess on both sides, to be honest.

edit: good god, the maturity on both sides here is staggering. bravo, guys. :/

[completly-naked.livejournal.com]

I fully admit I can be a bitch, to put it lightly, but 99% of the time, that doesn't happen unless I am provoked.

[monstersexual.livejournal.com]

Well, I dont think the issue here is how long it took. I think 2 weeks is pretty understandable/standard for a commission.

The problem here is her not being up front and honest.
-If she was sick, she should have told you.
-If she *KNEW* it would take more than two hours, she should have said something a long the lines of "it may take up to THIS long, is that okay?"
-Instead of making up a bunch of excuses, she should have been HONEST.
-She should have provided you with contact info

I think she's being very unprofessional and seemingly only caring about the cash, not the customer.

THOUGH I STRONGLY recommend NOT leaving user page shouts from now on. It makes the artist feel attacked and then they automatically defend themselves and get frustrated and everything get's nasty.

[completly-naked.livejournal.com]

yea, I have elearned that.And honestly I am somewhat new to FA, I didn't think leaving a user page shout was a breach of conduct. Also, I made the public LJ post, to maybe show some urgency.... I dunno. It was never my intention to attack the artist, etc. I felt attacked after her response, so I said some bad things, but not until I was provoked.

[banrai.livejournal.com]

After seeing the back-and-forth between the two of you, starting from your VERY rude post on the FWA community, to Zim's coming back being sick with who knows what (that, by the way, MOST of the people at FWA caught), I can only say one thing.

CRY A RIVER, BUILD A BRIDGE, AND GET OVER IT.

Your wall of text is nothing but a bunch of 'waaah waaaah waaaah waaaaaaaaaaah' because you were being completely unreasonable that someone was SICK. And, funny you keep going on that it's been two weeks now, despite the fact that if I recall correctly, Zim said she's already mailed your stupid badge.

Get a life, crawl back into your parents basement, and ffs don't ever try to commission me, cause you'll get a nice laugh in the face.

[monstersexual.livejournal.com]

Well, she never TOLD the commissioner she was sick. That's one of the problems the commissioner had.

Not to mention, it says specifically in the rules of this community no flaming, and you're being quite rude. There's no need to start tossing insults around, jesus.

[khirmoonclaw.livejournal.com]

The badge was done, I'm the one that pulled up a badger reference on my computer while she was working on it for you. She stayed in the room alot of the weekend.. She was really sick dude believe me when I say this. And she still tried to finish all the badges she could. She did not expect to get sick, It happened and she did her best getting people there artwork, I helped out earlier in the weekend by laminating stuff for so she would not have to keep running back and forth and already not feeling well.

My badge was not finished as well because of running out of laminate.

[completly-naked.livejournal.com]

ok, wells he has not given any proof the badge was done. please, understand, I do not doubt she was sick, and had she told me this, or something at the con, in the datys afterwards, etc, I would have completly understood. I mean, I gave her my address on the 18th, to have the completed badge mailed. If she mailed last week, it should have been here by now, if not, maybe she should check with the service she used to mail it, but I don't anything....

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Just out of curiosity, do you know how she mailed the badge? Certain delivery methods can take longer than others, such as media mail vs first class.

And I don't see why there's whining about the names being called. They're words on the internet. On the internet. Zim didn't even say them herself. She can't really stop people from saying what they say, so blaming her for that is a little out of line.

Otherwise, you're both in the wrong, imo. Things could have been done differently from both sides.

[completly-naked.livejournal.com]

I have no idea how or when it was mailed, she refuses to respond. Yea its words on the internet, but these people I will see at cons, etc. I feel like I have been blacklisted, like no matter what I say or do, no matter how jsutified I am, is going to blasted out of the water. But it seems the artist can do no wrong, like no seems to notice how she said said two hours (yes I know things come up, and things happen) but after thatpoint there was no real communication as to what was going on.... its been two weeks now, and I still have no idea when I will recieve anything.

[space-mutt.livejournal.com]

Lawdy, it happens again.

Anyway, here's the badge, as its been done since the con -
http://imagesocket.com/view/Digglabadge32f9.JPG

I'm kinda baffled as to what these 'lies' were that keep getting brought up. What exactly did I tell you do you think was a lie? That I was sick? That we ran outta laminate? The badge was done being drawn and colored when I told you it was, but it wasn't laminated. If you didn't mind not having the laminate and clip, I mean, I coulda just handed it to you right then. A couple other folks took theirs without laminate because it didn't matter to em.

As far as telling you that I'm ill, as stated in the responses to the last entry, I'm not the type to openly tell strangers when I'm not feeling so hot. Had I realized this would've been the focus of an issue later on, sure, I woulda told you in a heartbeat.

Anyway, I don't really care to sit here and read through this again, I haven't even begun looking through the responses to the other posting. Your badge has been on its way for a day or two now, what you do with it is up to you, I could honestly care less.

[space-mutt.livejournal.com]

Oh, and refusing to respond? Yeesh man, calm down, I've been at work since 8.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Well I can understand your side and do not think you did anything wrong... until this point... but now it seems the artist has your badge done, you've gotten a (somewhat reasonable) explanation for why things were so behind, and you've told your side of the story. Time to accept the badge and move on, I think?

[mistaken-silver.livejournal.com]

While I've been watching this drama unfold- And normally I don't say anything... but I feel the need to in this case.

First: You're making yourself look worse as instead of just letting it lie (the badge was mailed to you already). Sure- The artist you commissioned said you're impatient, but now, to us in this community, you SEEM more than just impatient. How many artists will be willing to accept your commission now? Probably... none of us.

Second: 2 Weeks isn't that long to wait- I've taken a full year on a commission before and the commissioner didn't care-. Plus, Not everyone has access or the ability to check their FA/DA/SA every day. I've been unable to check mine for a period of a month or two before. Most of us Artists, DO have jobs, or College, or heaven forbid even a life. The artist would have gotten back to you eventually. If she got badges done and delivered at the con then she wasn't just going to take the money and run. Thats just common sense.

Thrid: Things happen. The artist got sick... You have to be understanding. Honestly- I'm sure you've had teachers come up to you and say "You may have been sick, but this is due today! HAND IT IN" thats how it is. Sure she took the rest of the weekend off- but when your sick or getting over something you don't want to work. You also were NOT the only one who had a badge that wasn't finished. And Yeah- the Artist thought two hours- it took longer- TO me and to probably others that would come over as "She's taking her time with it- thats AWESOME." Because that means she'd be doing a better job.

And Lastly- IF I had a commissioner leaving 3 shouts/and posting about me in some forum or what within a week about their stuff I would be upset too. You only needed ONE note/shout leave it for a week or two and then ask again. You shouldn't have posted in the Forum- END of Story. You broke a cardinal rule- business should be kept private. Honestly- Any sort of long term commission that resulted in someone asking 3 times and Posting in a FORUM about me would result in a drop of the commission and a refund to the customer. Now the artist can't do that, She did the work, and its in the mail...

I would Say right now- GET OVER IT! It's in the mail, its coming. You need to calm down and back off. This comes over as a Revenge "I'm getting back at you" post. It makes you look really childish. Take a chill pill. You're getting your badge, and that should be all that matters.

[keihound.livejournal.com]

I understand the frustration of not being updated, but at the same time, 2 weeks?

I waited for 3 years for a commission once before I finally got persistent, aggravated and annoyed. 2 weeks is nothing.

[cassu-bean.livejournal.com]

IMO you're both being very immature. I will now be wary of both of you.

[lashiec.livejournal.com]

I agree with this statement.

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

Diggla is not entirely at fault here.

There, fixed it for you. You aren't doing your friend any favours by pretending their behavior here is in any way okay.

[ellonwye.livejournal.com]

If the guy was told two hours, I don't blame him for being a little concerned when it stretches into two weeks. Don't make time promises you can't keep, and this whole thing can be avoided. 'I have a real life' is a cop-out. If you can't stick to the time you've given the customer, let them know. Keep in contact. That way they know you're working on it, they're content that they haven't been forgotten, all is well.

I think there are lessons you can both learn here.

[ellonwye.livejournal.com]

+

I'm actually kinda sad at how snippy and nasty some people are being to this guy, since they've so firmly taken the other side. Just stand back and look at both sides, and maybe hold your tongues somewhat.

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

Goodness me. Okay, here's my two cents. This sounds like you two, the artist and the customer, don't sound like you have a lot of experience regarding how a convention commission goes. Both of you made mistakes and both of you would do a lot better to just stick to admitting you made mistakes, apologizing for those mistakes and deciding to do better next time. You know you both screwed up, yet both of you keep going on with these defensive posts trying to rationalize what you did wrong. That's not going to help you both out the next time you are in a comission situation.

For next time:

- Agree to a deadline, be aware that sometimes deadlines can't be met and if that happens, communicate to make sure each party is on the same new page. This whole "She never contacted me for FIVE DAYS!" versus "I don't check [this account] very often!" type of excuse are just silly.
- Keep in mind that conventions are hectic messes and it can be really hard to keep in contact face to face. Comissioners need to be aware that artists need breaks to pee, eat, sleep, deal with RL issues, etc so if you don't see them, that doesn't mean they are avoiding you or trying to rip you off. Artists need to give their customers a way to contact them if they can't be found face-to-face, even if it's a piece of paper taped to your empty table saying "BB in 20, any questions email me at [email]" sort of thing.
- Public outings should always be an absolute last resort, not a "Oh they are annoying me" kinda thing, because it'll usually backfire.
- IMHO, as I've experienced, the first person to stop being polite generally "loses" the public debate, if you MUST make things public at all. There is no excuse for being rude, even if you feel "they started it" - don't let anyone bring you down to their level.

That's all I gotta say.

[lashiec.livejournal.com]

Very well said.

[completly-naked.livejournal.com]

This is the thread that doesn't end...oh yes it goes on and on my friend...some people starting posting on it not knowing what it was...they will continue posting just because....


This is actually making me laugh now.


*ahhh* I feel better.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Thanks, now it's stuck in my head. =P

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Yus. BUT! The first person to stop being so defensive WINS AT LIFE! ... I'm rooting for you and diggla.

[stoney-l.livejournal.com]

this all seems rather pointless. but if nothing else, you've taught us all the valuable lesson of never doing business with either of you.

el-ohhhh-el.

(frozen) Re: This needs moar cat macros...

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

Hey who is screening all the delicious macro goodness?? :O

(frozen) Re: This needs moar cat macros...

[fierycatthing.livejournal.com]

I am. It is not needed in this community, it's just bait for more drama.

[fiercereaper.livejournal.com]

Okay so is one of the mods cleaning up the post? Because unless it's one of them deleting the cat macros that were just here and screening comments, totally uncool.

[fiercereaper.livejournal.com]

It is! Okay, awesome.

[mistaken-silver.livejournal.com]

He's getting His badge so what does it matter?

Things went wrong- Boo hoo.

I've waited for a BADGE commission that took three months after the Convention. The artist didn't get it done, they said they would and I didn't throw a fit.

People don't want to tell others they are sick. So she should have told, but he shouldn't be posting here Going "rawr" at her.

Yes, Obligated she was. But she was recovering from ILLNESS. I do believe that if your recovering from something that doesn't mean you SIT at a computer?

Honestly, You screaming back at people's comments makes you look bad too. Yeah, you're trying to defend a friend, but you need to chill too. I still don't understand- He's getting his badge, just don't order a commission at a convention again. THAT would be the SIMPLE solution No?

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I'm really confused; it looks to me like the ARTIST brought this issue to artists_beware, and the commissioner just followed up with a post on their POV. Perhaps not the perfect response, but I'd blame the artist for the drama more than the commissioner. No?