Advice - How to deal with nit-picky customers

[ramthedragon.livejournal.com]

First of all, I am a long time lurker of this site, but just now decided to post. I've never used LiveJournal before so I sincerely apologize if I make a mess of things.

This is a problem that happens to me a lot. I pride myself in being a pretty flexible artist, having good comunication with the client and overall getting a good picture with as much accuracy as possible. However this has lent itself to several clients going a little overboard with changes to the point of being a headache, especially when they want something changed "but they don't quite know why/what" or "this line looks out of place, please change it"

I know there are several ways of dealing with this problem, such as charging after a certain amount of changes, but it leaves me a bit sour in the mouth since it can suggest to potential clients that you might purposely mess up in order to charge them extra. Other options include charging these nit-picky individuals extra just for being them or refusing business from them outright.

My TOS is due an update and I would love to address this issue. If you could share with me your methods or suggestions it'd be much appreciated!

EDIT: Thank you very much everyone! I'm really glad my concerns were unfounded. I think I will go as many of you suggested with a numbered free changes before charging, especially on sketch phase. Again thank you very much!

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

since it can suggest to potential clients that you might purposely mess up in order to charge them extra

I have honestly never seen or heard of this being a concern. It's just not a thing. The vast majority of artists want to get the piece done and move on, they aren't going to intentionally drag it out to make a couple of dollars. Really, don't worry about that.

The standard is to make one big change (redrawing) and a couple of small changes for free, before you start charging for the extra time. The idea of a fee tends to make people be more decisive, and if they aren't, you're still getting paid for that time, so it's fairly win-win. Of course, if it's in your TOS and a client tries to complain about being charged, that's not your fault. That's not you being a 'bad' artist, or having bad customer service.

Unfortunately, if you continue to allow unlimited free changes, people will take advantage of you, as you've found.

[funkicarus.livejournal.com]

i worried about the 'what if they think i'm messing up on purpose' too, but i think it's just artist paranoia.

what i have done though (and it has helped both to cut down on this and to keep my time worth the final pay) is that i say the first three changes are for free. you could make yours more or less, but i say that after that any edits are 5$ per edit.

people are usually able to get what they want across by the first or second edit, but in the extremely rare event that they use up their third and still want changes, i feel like this really makes it less of a headache.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

It depends on what it is.

If it's something small like a sketch? I will absolutely not fix anything unless it's a major flub on my end. I've had clients have me sit there and tweak their character's clothes by mere inches, only to be unhappy with it and want it tweaked again. Honestly, for things like a sketch, if they want a refined image they'll have to pay for a refined image.

For larger items imposing a fee on revisions after X amount of time really gets folks to sit down and take a look at their image. I encourage them to take their time and sit on the sketch a few days before approving it for inking.

Your concern doesn't seem like it'd be that big of an issue, because charging a small fee to spend more minutes to fix something really isn't a good way to make more money. The artist is just spending more time and making less by the hour.

[nakoothetauren.livejournal.com]

Could I ask for an example of a Major flub? What would be acceptable for the client to ask to have changed?

I find my self going to far with offering changes and just wonder where other stop them selves.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Sure! Like if a character has wings or horns and you forgot them. Or if the pupils are slits, and you drew them as circular. Or a major one would be if you misread the pose, and you drew the wrong one.

But like if a loin cloth isn't slightly longer, or if a jacket isn't square enough, that's not a major flub; that's a refinement.

[nakoothetauren.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much!
Can I ask what about things like hoof shape or length of hair? What do you feel they would fall under?
Sorry for more questions!

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Unless you get it totally off, I would consider it minor.

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

I just altered my ToS to say ANY alterations to what is currently in front of me- I had too many people submit like, a highly stylized reference and then would pull the "BUT ITS LIKE THAT ON THE REF SHEEEEEEET ;_;" when something subjective came up and they wanted it different than how I percieved it to be. So I got tired of saying "Oh okay i guess you're right" and just changed it so if they ask for ANY alterations it counts towards their 3 freebie limit.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

If someone wants something changed but they're not sure what, ask them to sleep on it. If someone repeatedly asks for changes, you need to set a limit on the amount of free revisions you offer with your commission and then charge extra for the extra time you'll spend on these changes. So that would be a good thing to include in your TOS update, if it's not in there already.

Personally I state "Every commission includes an opportunity for revisions before the inking stage. Additional revisions will cost extra for the additional labour."

I can always give people more leeway if I think they're nice and polite and any changes beyond the first batch of revisions won't take much time.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

This in regards to the 'I don't know what seems off..' buyers.

I always tell them to take a few days to look at the art and figure out why it's not the way they want it. I state that I'm not going be making multiple back and forth tweaks until they can pin point exactly what they want changed. It's not worth either of our time to do this.

So far everytime I've had to tell someone this they take it well, and DO take a few days and come back with some minor edit they want done and everyone's happy.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

I think most artists have a term in their ToS that states they'll do X number of revisions for free and anything additional will cost extra. It's fairly standard in the industry, and I've never heard a customer complain that artists were purposely messing up just to make more money. If you do come across a customer like that, you're probably better off not dealing with them :p.

I will do up to three sketches (the initial sketch and two edits), and any more will be $5 each. I do not do any changes once the sketch is finalized, unless I have some major brain fart and color something orange instead of green or somesuch (and I'd fix that for free since it was my mistake).

I've never had to charge the extra sketch fees. I've had a few customers who definitely took advantage of the three free sketches, but by the third, everything's magically okay. $5 isn't a huge amount but it seems to be enough to prevent endless edits.

[dinobutt.livejournal.com]

My TOS says I reserve the right to charge for revisions at my discretion. In practice, I'm very forgiving about edits. If it's minor stuff, or my fault, or if they're just super nice about it I'll change things for free. But if they change their minds about major aspects of the piece, or forget to mention something until it's inked, or if they're just being a huge nitpicky pain I'll charge them a pretty reasonable fee to cover the extra time spent. This policy has never been a problem for me. If I wanted to milk them for more money, I'd just increase my prices instead of counting on them asking for edits, so I think that would be a pretty empty accusation. Everyone I've worked with has understood that if they want something very specific, it's going to take a bit of back and forth to get it right!

[kaiiju.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of people say that they'll do edits free of charge if they were at fault -- as in, it was on the reference but it was overlooked.
Adding things that aren't on the reference/weren't described should be extra, and made clear that you want the changes done in one go (aka someone can't be like CHANGE THIS, you change it and show them the image again, and they go OH CAN YOU CHANGE THIS TOO??).

[fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com]

Always state a specific number of "free" changes per images and when they occur. Like you get 2 free major or minor corrections on a sketch before inking, only one minor after inking, one minor and no majors after coloring. anything beyond that incurs X fee.

If you're worried about this implying you'll screw up on purpose, just clearly state that additional charges are not accrued for things that are clearly your fault. Charges only accrue is client changes their mind or failed to give you important info.

For example, the ref sheet says blue eyes, you did green. YOUR FAULT. no charge for change.

Second example: Client gives you two reference images. One has blue eyes, one has green. Client did not state what the correct color was and didn't respond to a question asking for clarification and you picked green. THEIR ERROR.


and I'd also state the difference between a minor and major change. Minor: stuff like slightly off correct color ("can you make the green a little darker?), slight changes to sketch position ("can her hand be open instead of close"?), etc.
Major: change in whole limb position, major color changes, total change of clothing style.

and examples of NOT A CHANGE, that's a different commission.
"Not wait, now my character is a dragon not a goat. redraw her as a dragon! this inked piece is of her as a goat! start over and make her a dragon!"

[nakoothetauren.livejournal.com]

What about if the change is something like the head shape is wrong?
Is that my fault or theirs? This is on a species I draw often so I feel like I am drawing it normally thus my confusion.

[fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com]

I'd put it under the heading of normal "free" changes as it should be a stylistic choice if its something you draw often and they've seen examples of. They hired you for YOUR style, not someone else's or as a magical brain printer. If they used up their free changes and want you to now work in totally different style they didn't tell you about the first time, its extra.

If its something you haven't done previously and have no examples of, I'd be a little more lenient with letting them have an extra "free" change... in sketch stage only. If you can't make them happy in sketch, it'll just get worse later. Or if its a little beyond your skill or comfort level, better to find it out at front end than back end so you can refund remaining balance and move on.

If you're having repeat issues something you do frequently and it seems to be a style issue, during the initial contact, send them back some links to previous work with some differences in detail to get them to clarify what they want. Then you KNOW they've specifically seen your style.

You can't always know WHAT is going to go wrong, but if you get a lot of repeats of same type of commission, I'd create a document with a link bank to all work in that style and organize and label them with key features. (I'd throw it in Google spreadsheets and label with keywords so you can search for keywords and can pull it up in any browser) "braided hair" "chainmail armor" "bodybuilder" etc. Send new clients asking for that type the link bank "here's examples of how I normally draw these items. Take a look at X and Y and tell me if that's how you're picturing it or if not, what's different."

Bit more work up front on communication, but likely saves you redoing large sections for some people that aren't so good at conveying what they want or just picky. Then they're very specifically seen items close to what they wanted and SHOULD be able to convey up front "yeah, like that, but with bigger eyes!"

[silvertales.livejournal.com]

There's definitely the opportunity for customers to take advantage if there is nothing in your TOS about changes. IF you offer free changes, be sure to limit the number, or the stage at which you'll implement them, otherwise you could spend the next year doing nothing but tweaks on the same project and getting paid peanuts for what amounts to a lot more work than you initially agreed to.

Personally, I have the "minor changes in the sketch stage" clarification in my TOS, with the understanding that anything after that starts incurring hefty fees. That understanding, at the outset, usually results in commissioners having more solid ideas of what they want when they request a commission from me.

I've also had the "I'm not sure, but something is *off*" in the sketch stage, and I, too, suggest taking a few days to sleep on it and get back to me. That usually helps people figure out where something isn't working for them and get back to me, rather than endless back-and-forth tweaks that usually just end up with "maybe I liked it better the other way...." responses. Less aggravation on all sides.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I didn't read any comments, so sorry if this has bee said already.

I provide a sketch to customers on 99% of commissions (baring wing its)
They may ask for changes in this stage. If they ask for the entire, or the majority of the image to be redone, I warn them that this takes up/most of their changes, and only very minor things will be changed free of charge.

Once the sketch is done, no more changes can be made, baring mistakes. I do show a line art wip about 75% of the time, depending on what type of commission.
If a customer requests changes in the line art, I charge. (I recently had someone want the body type changed, that they had already OKed in the sketch, twice)
If they asked for say.. A collar and a ponytail, and I forgot them, I would add them in free in the line art.
Or, if they had fluffy around their neck and I forgot it. Errors on my end.

If they decided they wanted a collar and never told me, or, wanted to change a skirt to shorts. I'd charge.

[sheepilyy.livejournal.com]

Instead of giving people a number of edits I lay out in each stage what I'm willing to change for someone (sketch, lineart, flats, shades).
And then I tell people if you need something changed once I have gone past those stage, if it takes more than 10 minutes to do, I will ask for an extra fee.

I also only accept payment once the commissioner is happy so there is a total fee. My rule is also that you CANNOT ask for any changes after they have sent payment. Once the person has sent payment, my TOS states that the transaction is completed and you are 100% happy with your image.
You could split your payment into half now and half later as well with the same rule.


I've also run into extra picky clients who it takes x10 the amount of time to do art for them. I find that saying I can only work on an hourly rate for them works a lot better as well.

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

+1 to all the sketch stage is for fixing problems only.

I also won't do unpaid revisions for cheap commissions, unless it's something I mess up from their character sheet.

In regards to people who get picky about where you put lines or what hex code color you use... I make sure to include in my TOS a statement that basically says that I know best. I know color theory. I know composition. Unless my customer is an artist, I'm doubting very much they know quite as much as I do, and probably don't understand why midway through the painting, the colors look like they do. If I pay a carpenter to build something for me, I'm doing it because I don't know how to do it myself. They know their trade, and I respect that. I expect the same respect in my line of work.

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

http://youtu.be/Qdeszfkqe0E
In this 15 minute video professional illustrator Clint Cearley speaks on the submitted topic of how to handle the revisions and avoid a "revision nightmare". Points covered include a revision clause, notifying client of post contractual work, dropping a project and more.


I found that video to be pretty helpful. :)