Right to blame an artist when their fanbase is at fault?

[sabrext.livejournal.com]

(second time's the charm. :P )

Hello.

I don't normally use artist beware, but I'm looking for opinions on something. Sorry if this has been covered before, I did look back a few pages. I'll try and keep it brief.

There's an artist I like, we've had 3 years of business without any serious complaints. Recently we've had a falling out and he's started giving me the silent treatment. Why? I'm not sure. He could be to busy, but if I had to guess, it would be the behaviour of his fans.



See, the artist does most of his work on a livestream which the commissioner has to attend and give live feedback on. The chat is almost always attended by his friends, some of which aren't paying regulars. They don't approve of me. From voicing disapproval at my commission to bringing up old beef and starting fights. Even keeping silent doesn't help as my presence there seems to be enough to set them off. From where I sit, they are the ones that are hostile, but I'm the one who takes the blame. It has pretty much made it so I can't attend the livestream.

I've tried to ask the artist for commissions away from the livestream, and if I've somehow wronged him, but my queries have been met with silence.

My friends say I should drop the artist and go elsewhere, I get that. But at the same time, I feel bad dropping an artist because of the poor behaviour of his friends.

Comments

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

This artist can say sayonara to your time and money. If they can't get their friends to be respectful even with differing opinions and feelings on what they're working on; they don't deserve a single hot red cent from you.

You can feel bad, sure, but business is business and if they're running theirs badly oh well.

Find other artists worth the time and money who can keep their stream audiences in actual line.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

The artist has chosen to sit silent and say nothing while his fans are being abusive towards you. It might not be his fault that people chose to act like that in the first place, but it is absolutely his fault that it's continuing, he's perfectly capable of saying "guys, that's not cool, please don't be rude to my customers". He hasn't, so he gets to deal with the consequences, which is you leaving.

[maxi.livejournal.com]

^ This entirely.

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

This.

You aren't dropping the artist. He clearly has dropped you, and can't even 'man-up' and just say so.

[latiro.livejournal.com]

This definitely

[ramthedragon.livejournal.com]

Absolutely agree, I would be livid if I had people harassing a customer, which is a source of income, and therefore very important to me.
This person clearly values their friends over your business, and you should take it elsewhere.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

I agree with this.


I also find it a little strange that this artist only does commissions via streaming. Is this a new thing for artists? I personally almost never stream since I am a multitasker (like crazy) and can't do only the picture and nothing else since I know people would be watching me and would get bored with me reading fanfics, checking FA, my email, and watching Netflix.

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

In addition, streams to not need to be public. There is zero reason why this artist can not run a private stream for your commissions. After all, you are paying for them and he's the one insisting it be in such an inconvenient, hostile situation.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I don't care how much someone is my friend, no one disrespects my client in stream. It is incredibly rude, and disrespectful that the artist won't even keep control of their stream.

I agree with the others.

[roxyfur.livejournal.com]

Everyone has touched the friends point, but I'll mention another good point. You said inquiries for commissions privately to the artist have been met with silence? This seems like a pretty clear indicator that they do not wish to work with you.

If you had done something you're unaware of to cause the artist to dislike you, and they don't care to bring it up, the silent treatment may be their way of trying to get you to leave them alone. Granted, it's not the right way to do things, but some people don't deal with conflict well so they think avoiding it is better.

It's possible that they and their friends see your persistence as irritating or offensive, though their behavior is in NO way justified, so it might be best to call it a loss and find a new artist to take your work. Frankly, if they don't have the maturity to come to you with any beef they have against you and to allow their friends to behave like this, they don't deserve your business anyway.

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

This, so many times this. Not everyone is willing to talk about WHY they don't want to deal with a client any longer, and they certainly are not obligated to do so. Clearly the business relationship is over, whether it's because YOU (op) do not want to deal with abuse (understandable), or because the artist no longer wants to work with you.

Just let it go and find a different artist to work with!

[ankewehner.livejournal.com]

Agreed entirely.

[sacch.livejournal.com]

If the artist allows their fans to abuse you, that's a red flag as it is. I would NEVER allow people to do that in my streams toward potential clients or guests; in fact, I have friends who I trust as moderators to keep people in check.

Not worth your time and money, and it's their loss of business. Drop them. Echoing agreement with the others. And if the artist doesn't respond to private inquiries, it's not worth pursuing and causing potential conflict (not saying that you would do such a thing).

[spiritlobo.livejournal.com]

Dude, don't feel bad. Don't feel bad in the least - if they can't control their friends, then they don't deserve a damn cent from you.

Take your ball and go to an artist that will respect you enough to actually respond when you have a problem. Drop 'em like a hot potato, boo.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with everyone else, if the artist is deliberately ignoring you and not telling fans to knock it off then it looks like they don't want to do business with you any more.

If you're concerning in case there's a misunderstanding, I think the best thing to do at this point is send them a private message along the lines of that you're going to assume they no longer want your custom, if that's not the case then they can get in touch with you let you know.

[saniika.livejournal.com]

Dont feel bad. It sounds to me you tried your best to accommodate the artist and create to conflict. I agree with others - seek out someone else :)

[thaily.livejournal.com]

It seems really weird for an artist's friends to have a go at you, and for the artist to allow this. Are you sure the artist didn't express a displeasure with you first, which the friends then take as an invitation to be obnoxious white knights?

I like to think my friends would never do what these people do, but as an artist? If my friends are harassing a paying customer I want to do business with? I would have put an end to that right away. Even if it means banning a friend from my stream?

But then real friends wouldn't act insufferable if it was hurting a friend's ability to you know.. Pay bills, or even get a little extra cash to hang out. That's just bizarre.

Odds are, if the artist is allowing their friends to act like this towards you and refuses to answer your inquiries, they do not want to do business anymore and they're neither professional or mature enough to just say so politely.

Drop them like they're hot, even though they're not.

[sabrext.livejournal.com]

I wonder that as well. But if it is something specifically I've done, the artist hasn't replied to tell me what it is.

I'm not sure, but I want to say I got in touch with the artist and he said he doesn't have a problem with me or my commissions. He said I can be stubborn at times though. I'm not perfect, I likely could have handled the situation better as it was happening. That said, even when me and the artist didn't agree, it's never really been a problem.

Some of squabbles I remember being fairly petty. One person didn't approve of stuff they deemed too sexual. The artist only does clean pictures, so stuff like corsets were deemed to risque. One posted his character back story, and when me and another guy asked about a plot hole, he didn't like it. There was also stuff like me not caring for an artist they liked, or me disagreeing with the idea that all art focuses on the face. Individually this is petty drama, and even in disagreement, not really big deals, but they seem to hold grudges, bringing up arguments I don't remember having.

The artist did assign a mod to the chat so they could police behaviour while he focused on art, but of course the mod was a friend...

At least, that's how I see it. I don't know how they saw it. For all I know I was the one behaving out of line. I'd be sorry if I did, as I try not to be a bad person. I don't always succeed, but I try. But I can't change if I don't know.

[armaina.livejournal.com]

If you've had a falling out and they've been giving you the silent treatment, they probably want you to stop commissioning them.

Granted, that doesn't make how they're going about this good or appropriate at all, in fact, I would bet the artist's friends behavior is because said artist has complained about you, to said friends. No matter what, or how they feel about you, they should not permit that kinda of behavior to persist in a public space. Sure they could be busy, but seeing how they're not only ignoring you, but they're also allowing their friends to harass you, I really don't think their silence is just being 'busy' :/

I say wrap up whatever commissions you have with them, and let them go. It's terrible to think you might have done something and not have any solution for it, but at this point, it's not worth the trouble.

[aerotheacrobat.livejournal.com]

I kind of have a sense there's only half the story here. You said you had a falling out and then the artist became silent to you, this is a very clear indication they no longer want you to be a customer. Do they currently owe you work? Did you pay them before the falling out and still waiting for the art? If the answer is no, leave them alone. I've ignore people I didn't want to work with but didn't think whatever bothered me about them was blockable. If they do owe you art, this becomes a new kettle of fish.

The actions of their friends and fans is no excuse. The artist has obviously expressed upset somewhere about you and fans pick up on that like bloodhounds and try and protect the artist (not a good thing in any situation). The artist should have told them to stop, issued blocks, or asked people to leave, even if it was to ask you to leave if they are that uncomfortable. It doesn't mater if the friends have bought from the artist or not. That behavior is seen by potential customers and is a red flag and harming the artist.

Long story short, you should leave the artist alone if they do not owe you anything currently. The artist is also harming their own sales letting the white knighting happen without a word, but that's not your business.

[sabrext.livejournal.com]

Bah, ninjaed.

I wrote a response to thaily just above that goes into the nature of the divide between me and the fans.

As for the falling out. It was for various reasons, partly my fault perhaps, he said I was stubborn at times, but mostly it was due to the fights in the stream which, as mentioned, I'd get the blame for.

[purpule.livejournal.com]

I think the artist, unprofessionally or otherwise, is trying to give you the hint that they don't want to work with you any more. Whatever falling out you had clearly isn't resolved on their end.

Unless you have any left over business with them, I'd suggest moving on.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

A lot of the times commissioners do something they think is perfectly fine, which can be quite annoying to an artist. Something like that may have made the artist not wish to work with you, and they may not be speaking up about their friends hoping you'll just leave.

It's really hard to judge without the full story.

[infectedhound.livejournal.com]

I can't help but to feel that we aren't getting the full story behind this behavior. From either artist or those who support them.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

This. I have a feeling the falling out between artist and commissioner was worse than the commissioner realized. You don't generally just suddenly ignore someone after several years unless something bad happens.

Whatever the case is, though, it's obvious the artist doesn't want to work with the commissioner any more. And since the commissioner's presence is clearly antagonizing the artist's friends/fans*, I think walking away from this situation is pretty much the only option at this point.

*For the record, I don't agree with the artist allowing them to harass others in the livestream, but if the falling out was bad enough I could see why they just wouldn't care.

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

You need to find another artist. It's pretty obvious that this artist doesn't wanna work with you, though their way of doing so is very unprofessional.

[karthegrax.livejournal.com]

You seem really determined to not find fault with the artist or yourself, so I'll play devils advocate and assume there is none. Evidently you're keen to continue working with this person, so your best bet is to give them space. Don't try to talk to them for a month or longer. Whatever their reason for not responding, be it busy, family, money, job, commissioners, etc, they don't need to hear from you right now. If there is in fact a deliberate reason they're ignoring you, this gives them time to cool off, and they might consider business with you in the future.

Because in honesty, even though an artist likes to pander to their fans, it's unlikely they'd be tolerating stream abuse unless a person had irked them, and they wanted them to back off.

[zenark.livejournal.com]

Sounds like this artist isn't willing to meet you halfway in yall's friendship and has more or less abandoned any chance of it continuing. You shouldn't have to deal with them and their friend's shit. It'll only hurt you if you continue trying to repair a friendship like this.

Leave them before you dig yourself into a hole of depression. It's not worth it, especially if they're not even mature enough to discuss any problems like adults.

Take the high road and move on to a better friend.

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

they were never friends?