A tale of woe!

[babsbunny.livejournal.com]

You know, I ever thought I'd ever get a nightmarish commission request. But I guess there's a first time for everything, hey?

Well, not sure if I'd call this a tale of "woe" per se...it's more like a tale of *headdesk*.

About a week ago, I get this IM from Rogeykun (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/rogeykun) who's chatting a mile a minute as though we're close friends, to the point where I asked him if we knew each other. He answers no, this is the first time we've chatted o.O. After about a half a dozen messages from him, however, he asks me for a commission. No problem, he just wanted an inked picture w/ 3 characters. I agree to take it.

The first point of note is that this fellow has terrible listening skills. Several times I had to ask him to send me a detailed PM through Furaffinity, once he hashed out in detail what it was he wanted. After awhile he stopped trying to brainstorm via very scattered IMs, and complied. After that was squared away, he paid me and I began. Much later, I had to ask him for his address. He emails back, "1234 Iowa" (address changed to protect blahblahblah you get the idea. ;P). I reply that I need the COMPLETE address, to which he responds, "Oh, I didn't know you needed the whole thing!" Oy...

Second point of note, is that this fellow is an IM disaster. He was messaging me nonstop, trying to chat with me, and doing one of those numbers where he would take 6 IMs to get his point across. Multiple times I would tell him I was busy or that I couldn't chat. His response? He'd state that I didn't have to respond right away, and next thing I know, I'd have 12 more messages sent my way. Eventually I got aggravated enough to where I blocked him, and just kept my communication with him via email only, and strictly business related. This worked for about a week, but I'll get to that later.

In the meantime, I got to work on his picture. Which wasn't so bad, except that he got me to revise it over and over again. "The cheeks aren't fluffy enough. Now they're too fluffy. No, smooth them out again. The ears need to be shorter. Oh hey, can I have different hair?" Now, I don't mind doing revisions, as I like to give my customers the best work I can do and make folks happy with what they get. But after adjustment number 4, I once again found that enough was enough. I gave him a scan of the updated picture, and told him that the revisions in question were getting to be a daily thing, and that it was a lot of work to have to erase, adjust and scan his picture over and over again. I told him that I would be more than happy to make further adjustments to his picture, but that going forward I was going to charge $5/revision, which would need to be paid up front before I began work. Fortunately he took that well, and suddenly decided that his picture was perfect, and was happy with my work. Good. I told him I would start inking this upcoming week.

So, that said, all was Peacable Kingdom until last night, when I get a tantrum from one of Rogey's other IM alts. Between all the "hells" and "damns", he basically asked me why I blocked him. So, since he asked, I felt he deserved an honest answer, and I told him why. I told him that he was overbearing, and chattered nonstop, despite my efforts to let him know I couldn't chat. (I also apologized if I had been too subtle in that regard). After begging me to unblock him, saying he'd be good and not bother me if I was busy, I told him that no, I'd prefer to keep him blocked. The truth was, he made me feel uncomfortable, rubbed me the wrong way, and I didn't really enjoy talking to him. I told him exactly this, and stated that I would prefer to keep communication to email, so that I could finish his picture and have that be the end of it.

This did not sit well with Rogey. He proceeded to tell me how "mean" I was, and he didn't want to do business with a "mean" person and demanded a full refund. I told him I wasn't being mean, I was being honest since he asked, and that no, I wasn't going to give him a full refund, since I produced a full pencil sketch, which I revised 4 times. I did tell him I would refund him back half of the cost, as the total was $20, and I charge $10 for pencil sketches. In the meantime, I told him I would also still send the hard copy to him, so I would be keeping the $2 for shipping to fund that. He didn't want the hard copy, however, so I refunded him back $12 via Paypal.

That done, he proceeded to tell me that he hoped I am not that awful to autistic people and bid me farewell.

So yeah. Word of caution should Rogeykun contact any of you for art. To put it mildly, he was a very poor customer.

EPILOGUE:
Shortly after posting this, I get ANOTHER IM from him from another alt, asking my permission to ink and colour the picture. I told him that I would appreciate it if he didn't, but thanked him for asking.
He then gets his BUDDY to pester me and the following conversation ensues:
[21:46] cfcfurry: hi is this the babs Rogey The Vulpix commisiond?
[21:46] BabsBunny CC: Yes....
[21:47] cfcfurry: i heard you wouldnt let him in and color it is this true?
[21:47] BabsBunny CC: He asked me if he could, and I told him that I would appreciate it if he didn't, and thanked him for asking.
[21:48] cfcfurry: oki
[21:50] cfcfurry: you would appreciate it so i see you know that he can do it if he wants cuz he payd for it that was all i wanted to know
[21:50] BabsBunny CC: No, in short, I do not wish for him to colour or ink it. he asked for permission, I denied it. Do you understand?
[21:51] cfcfurry: well babs he payd for that sketch and that means he owns it
[21:51] cfcfurry: so he can do what ever
[21:51] cfcfurry: if it was a request its diffrent
[21:52] BabsBunny CC: Then he shouldn't have asked, should he?
[21:52] BabsBunny CC: This discussion is at a close. I do not like being bullied, or sidetalked.

Yeah. Hopefully that's the end of it. -.-


Ugh. >.< Fortunately in all the years I've been a furry artist this is the first ripe one I've come across.

Comments

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

...wow. Even the 'autistic' argument got pulled into that one, albeit in a roundabout way XD.

Anyway, sounds like you handled this well. I'll be sure to watch out for this guy.

[borderfuck.livejournal.com]

Surprised there wasn't some good old Godwin's Law in it, lol.

In after H1tl0r.

[lastres0rt.livejournal.com]

Actually, based on the described IM behavior, this is more ADHD than Autism.

But I'm just an aspie on the sidelines here, I know better than to diagnose based on a single post anyway. >_>

[theassassinnox.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the warning.

*adds them to the list of NON commissions*

You handled this very professionally. Well done!

[jademare.livejournal.com]

Autism = worst excuse on the internet.

Thanks for the warning. x.X

[dineegla.livejournal.com]

Followed by Asperger's Syndrome

[armaina.livejournal.com]

No kidding. My youngest brother is in fact, diagnosed with aspergers but he doesn't go throwing that around as an excuse because he doesn't understand that concept that it effects him socially, and most aspergers kids don't understand that.

The ones that do understand are so high functioning that you can't even tell they're aspergers in the first place and they still don't use it as an excuse.

The ones that throw that around are usually self diagnosed :/

[nomadmatan.livejournal.com]

...Wow.

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

[21:51] cfcfurry: well babs he payd for that sketch and that means he owns it
[21:51] cfcfurry: so he can do what ever

No, I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean anything of the sort. And what a rude person.

Basically what he meant was "well, Babs, screw you :D". Sigh.

Definately staying away from this person. Over familiar people creep me out and when they're paying you for work, they're even more annoying. Never ever ever.

cfcfurry = http://www.furaffinity.net/user/cutefoxcat/

[iguanaartgirl.livejournal.com]

technically, the legal rule is if you buy artwork, you own the artwork. Anything done to it beyond that needs permission for; so further edits or modifications by other people or himself are NOT legally covered. He paid for the picture, sure, but legally does not have permission to do ANYTHING with it other than hang it on his wall and look at it.

Though it's a picture Babs got $10 for, so it's not something to be slinging lawsuits about.

[databank.livejournal.com]

Nice... I've heard a few stories about the sort from friends, and it's good that you've managed to not get one for this long.

I recall one guy that tried to use the autistic excuse on a webforum I modded once, and another mod came up with "So am I. I struggle with it daily, in fact. Your point?"

[wyna-hiros.livejournal.com]

Ugh, serious amount of bawwwwwing from that guy. Good lord. Thanks for posting this warning up.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Wow what a nutjob. This isn't standard behavior for a lot of austic people I've met, and others know.
This guy is just way overboard.
I will keep away from him.
Oh and Hi babs! I don't know if you remember me but we went on that car trip to San Fran like 6 years ago at AC :)

[babsbunny.livejournal.com]

Of COURSE I remember you, doofball! :) How could I forget! *huggles*

[rainbow-roo.livejournal.com]

Is there anyone who doesn't have autism or is an aspie anymore? Is this a furry thing or an internet thing? I'd be fucking rich if I had :10bux: for every time I heard one of the above used as an out.

[lesablefox.livejournal.com]

Some people actually really do have it. It's turned into an e-popular thing and honestly, it aggravates the hell out of me. Asperger's/Autism is not an excuse for your behaviour. It may be an explanation, but not an excuse. With the knowledge you have Asperger's/Autism, you should be more aware your actions may not be appropriate, and work on them.

I have Asperger's and I don't see how his behaviour could be chalked up to it at all. Perhaps the initial behaviour of IMing her, but if she literally told him, up front (Aspies are not good with subtle warnings or implications), that she was busy and did not want to talk, that's a pretty clear clue that he should leave her alone. It's literal and it's blunt, there's no reason why Asperger's would account for not understanding this.

I think it's simply more of a matter of he's difficult and annoying, and he knows it, but instead he blames it teh autisms. I love how he didn't even mention being autistic until way later, and it was used as a guilt-trip statement.

[raggedtyger.livejournal.com]

Ugh, wow.

[rains-opacity.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for the warning! i will steer clear of this commissioner should it ever come to pass that he finds my work. i've not the wonderful patience that you do.


<3333

[thaily.livejournal.com]

"[21:51] cfcfurry: well babs he payd for that sketch and that means he owns it"

I love it how amateurs know nothing of stuff like commissions and copyright law but automatically assume that everything is going to be in their favor.

And by "love" I mean "hate with a fiery passion of a thousand undying suns".

He just paid you for the labor and the original, not editing or redistribution rights etc. That would cost a hell of a lot more than 10 bucks, I'm still boggled by how some furries think you're selling your soul for that cheap.

[eric-hinkle.livejournal.com]

"[21:51] cfcfurry: well babs he payd for that sketch and that means he owns it"

I love it how amateurs know nothing of stuff like commissions and copyright law but automatically assume that everything is going to be in their favor.

Reminds me of a guy I used to go to cons with... he would ask various artists to draw truly revolting hentai (involving underage characters) in his book. They'd very often tell him "No".

Then he would tell me to ask them to draw it "Because they draw what you ask for." When I explained that this was because, if they told me they wouldn't do something, I'd say "Then, can you draw something else in the book? Because I'd like to have some of your work."

Of course, he knew better than that, and finally nagged me into asking for what he wanted. Guess what, it didn't work.

He just paid you for the labor and the original, not editing or redistribution rights etc. That would cost a hell of a lot more than 10 bucks, I'm still boggled by how some furries think you're selling your soul for that cheap.

I'm always delighted when an artist takes their copy of something they did for me and puts it up in their online art file (I'm guessing that's what you mean here?), it shows they must have liked the idea for the commission.

[doodlesthegreat.livejournal.com]

Holy crap. No wonder you were so pissed off the other day.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

Oy. I hate it when people constantly bother me on instant messengers. Especially when they split their thoughts into a bajillion posts. Especially!especially when I am trying to work on their (or anyones) art.

I had this one guy that was constantly bothering me... from the instant I got on the computer and logged in ("How much have you done so far?!") until I got sick of him and canceled his commission. It was only going to be for Gaia Online gold, so it wasn't worth the annoyance.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Given how he's behaved it certainly seems like he gravitated towards being a baby fur because being childish is his normal maturity level.

I'd suggest DMCAing him if he does ink and colour your work and put it up on one of the gallery sites.

[iguanaartgirl.livejournal.com]

I don't mind commissioners who want to chat. I've made friends with a couple of my repeat customers in fact. However, it does bother me when (a) they open up their very first commission request by being WAY too touchy-feely, "I've known you for years" kind of vibe, or (b) they feel that, because they are paying you for a service, they then have the right to get whatever they want out of you.

I had a guy years ago who felt that, because he bought a sticker from my cafepress shop and had been visiting my website since I opened it (somewhere around '99), that I owed him a free modified version of an existing piece to put on the hood of a show car he was making for sale, AND that I also owed him a visit in Georgia (I was in New Jersey & in High school) so he could "take me for a ride in his car". Never actually commissioned me for anything, but by far the worst I've ever got as far as fan communication.

In short, high-fives Babs for putting up with that. Sorry you had to deal with that mess. I'd like to hope the guy learns how to deal with people better, but logic tells me he probably won't. :(

[iguanaartgirl.livejournal.com]

one quick ad: people like this guy are most of the reason I don't use any IM programs anymore. I just can't deal with floods of people I don't know who don't really try talking WITH me, but just talk AT me.

[sergeant.livejournal.com]

The machine-gun IM's drive me completely up a wall. I'm guilty of it myself once in a while, but typically only when it's super late at night and I'm about to die of lack of sleep. But constant messages drive my OCD crazy. The flashing of the taskbar, the "bading!" of the IM client if I have the sounds turned on. It's short of a psychotic episode. I thus tell people very politely please put all thoughts into one message because it drives me nuts otherwise.