Artist Beware - Kanel

[dfstarfield.livejournal.com]

WHO: Kanel

WHERE: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/kanel

WHAT: Digital image. 2 character, Fullbody, Painted and simple background. Later 'upgraded' for the wait. $40 initially + $20 simple background added later = $60

WHEN: February 7th, 2012 initial payment and commissioning. Restarted commission around May 2013. Restarted again in December 2015.

PROOF: Agreement of commission
Payment for initial commission
Journal showing all commissions initially
Second payment for background added on later
First WIP image in July 2012
Restarted WIP in 2013
Asking to restart again in March 2015
Second restart WIP image (December 2015)
February request for update
March request for update
April request for update and notice of intent to go to AB

EXPLAIN:

Just for my own sanity of how long it’s been, I organized the events of what happened in each year since this whole commission got started. It might be unusual but it also seems unusual for a commission to take this long. Because it’s been so long, some of the pictures, skype logs, and other things have been lost but I’ve done my best to try and get everything relevant.
-------------
An explanation before I begin, I’ve had three different computers. One is where all the screenshots I have on here is the oldest and I don’t actually use anymore because of various issues with it after 2012. Second one, where all of my logs were died last summer. Hard drive gave out around June 2015 and no way to recover anything on it. Third is this computer I’m using now which I received in in September 2015 has virtually nothing on here. So I have a dead spot in skype chats between late 2012 till late 2015.



Kanel and I used to be good friends at one point. I found him on FA early one before he really got noticed and achieved popufur status. We played video games together several times and talked together quite a bit over the years. I commissioned him 2 separate times before all this with no problems. Over time though we started talking less and less until we drifted apart as we have now.

2012
Kanel opened commissions and I managed to nab a spot. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3163112/
We shortly afterwards we discussed and agreed upon an idea which cost 35 dollars. I’m not sure why at the time but I paid 40 dollars instead and sent it to him. https://www.dropbox.com/s/gct6e4aw31t4ytb/DS%201a.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qvtcergu1fc0oja/Pay%201.png?dl=0

He then posted a journal with a commission list, later in the day, with my commission and two previous completed ones I had with him along with several others in the batch I’m in. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3163656/

Later Kanel expressed concerns about the subject matter as something he wasn’t very interested in doing (which now that I look back even I now I was wondering what I was thinking) so we changed the commission to a fight scene between our characters that could both enjoy. Suggested I cover the cost for a background to make it look better but Kanel didn’t want me to pay because he felt a bit sorry for such a long wait. I thought it was only right that I pay the cost, at the time being 20 dollars, and sent it out.
First half of combined screenshots
Second half of combined screenshots
For those who can't read those two for any reason, here are the individual screenshots.  Quite a lot of them though.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
Part 12
Part 13
Part 14
Part 15
Part 16
Part 17
Part 18
Payment of background: https://www.dropbox.com/s/in1mzrt5y5qz163/Pay%202.png?dl=0

About a month later Kanel would stream work on the picture. He would get his character colored and shaded while my character was mostly done except for some shading. There were some ‘sketchy’ background ideas drawn in but none of them he liked though and were cut out from the progress he stopped at.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kxch66sk24f3t4s/SK%2029.png?dl=0

Shortly afterwards he asked for my opinion about opening up some commissions again. My commission and the majority of the others that he had accepted back in February were not done yet. He needed some income at the time to support himself and his family. My opinion then, and still now, is to be open and keep everyone updated one what’s going on with you and why you need to take more commissions.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Later opened commissions journal

2013
I’m not quite sure when exactly Kanel worked on the picture again but he had started over actually and gave me a screenshot of the new picture. I was very surprised at the time but glad that he had worked on it and was farther along than the last picture. Unfortunately the skype logs during this time are lost but I still have the screenshot from then and is dated to have been created on May 17th, 2013.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q76ajxu0is3amks/b59215f815916d704c309f3a465827f7.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zidj2xmwewblrew/b3942fd923921.png?dl=0

Because of the update and the image looked farther along, I was satisfied with him making progress and left him alone for the rest of the year. Like I said at the beginning, I have a lot of patience and didn’t want to stress him out.

2014
No notes were found for this year and any skype logs I had died with my last computer. No data available for this year.

2015
Every year after this point I would ask for an update on the commission in late February as sort of the anniversary of when I commissioned him. Once again he asked if I would agree to change the subject of the commission again, something league related. I thought this might be just the last motivation he needed to finish the commission so I approved the subject change. If he wasn’t liking the old subject then hopefully this new one would motivate him to finish it.

At the time, were we both starting to get into league of legends so it seemed like a good idea. Originally it was something along the lines of us working together to fight Baron Nashor, my character as Rugged Garen (DEMACIA).
All screenshots mashed together: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1qjjqu535do32v2/FA%20screenshot%201.jpg?dl=0
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

It was getting a bit annoying at this point that Kanel didn’t have any significant update for me and wanted to start it over again. He was accepting more commissions and opening his patreon pages with his personal projects and commission rewards (Reward tier where you get the equivalent of a commission). I knew the adopts that he did every few month were to cover his rent and a bit more for food but still hurt that he was doing new stuff rather than old commissions.

Eventually in October and November, I finally started pressuring him a bit more about the commission.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vli216e7tsbqy39/DF%201.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjcmejo0quww2pl/DF%202.png?dl=0

December, shortly after I asked if he made any progress, he started streaming my commission with the league related subject. He did two separate days of it but I missed most of the second day sadly since I passed out mid-stream. Last I saw was of our characters and him working on a very detailed background with us both having killed Teemo.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/18520987/

2016
I was still pretty satisfied with him having worked on it back in December but was surprised he handed worked on it again to finish the image. When I asked for an update in late February, he let me know that he still planned to finish it and wanted to give me a refund as well. I replied letting him know it was 60 dollars and that he would send me the cash the following weekend but nothing came.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyi0z4ol8bl83dr/DF%203a.png?dl=0

End of March, I asked for an update again but he had none. Also he wanted me to refrain from asking for updates on the image part of the commission as well after he had sent me my money back. The image would be considered a giftart apology for waiting or interest for such a long wait. Still didn’t receive a refund.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h7n8t3nf54c08ke/DF%205.png?dl=0

End of April, I asked for an update again but he still had none. At that time I mentioned my intention to eventually go to Artist Beware with the issue which he was understandably irritated about. I would be too if someone was going to make a post on here about me. Still with no progress on my commission and no refund, it does not appear to be coming to an end anytime soon.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fm3m0iiw4n3w9xy/DF%204.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9p230lwlr7e7rl/DF%206.png?dl=0


I don’t think there is any true malicious intent on his part at all but more leaning towards negligence. Probably he wanted to get the commissions done that were newer and of people where were bugging him more to get them done. This month so far he has made work on his patreon rewards but seems behind on those as well. I don’t really know what his situation is as far as his commissions and patreon rewards but I do wish he would talk about it and be a bit more open. It really sucks that it’s come to this but I don’t quite feel like my commission is going to get finished without this and it would probably be a few more months before I get my refund too.

Posting this here probably burns what bit of friendship we still had but seems like this is my only option. It has been over 4 years since I commissioned him. Each time he gets past half way done before scrapping it and starting over because his style changed, to do more for the picture as an apology for taking so long, or because he lost his motivation to finish the image before this one. His art has improved but his work ethics hasn’t quite kept up with the demand he has gotten for his art.

I know I’m not the only person he owes art to. There are others that have commissions from him in the year 2013 (Some done others not). Plus he has been having a bundle of (NSFW) patreon commission rewards pile up every month. Occasionally he will take a simple sketch commission or do in (NSFW)stream commission he announces on twitter.  He also has his own patreon for his personal comic art that he used to do but hasn't touched for a while.

(I could probably fill out a long list of different times he has taken commissions over the years but that would be very long a bit more work that needed.  If requested though, I can add them later.)

I’m probably not his first priority to do at the moment and that’s fine. Unfortunately my patience has essentially ran out now and a more aggressive approach is needed.  This will be held here as unresolved until his promise is fulfilled back in February.  Refund of $60 and the commission image.  I think that's fair since that's what was offered.

Update: Kanel finally sent the refund. That was fast.

Comments

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

Did you mean to write "Refund OR the commission image"? I am just curious since that can sometimes be a mental slip. o:

[dfstarfield.livejournal.com]

As bad as it sounds, no. Meant refund and commission image since that's what he offered to me back in February. https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyi0z4ol8bl83dr/DF%203a.png?dl=0

[bourbon. (from livejournal.com)]

Even though it's nice of him to offer it, he's not obligated to give you both the art and the refund. It's a one or the other situation.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

I see - even if it was kind of offered I would just try to take one or the other, personally.

[latiro.livejournal.com]

Wow, you were like a saint waiting 4 years for updates from Kanel!

It's really disappointing to hear that he hasn't made any progress to your commission and tons of other's commissions on his plate since 2012/2013. I think once FA gets back from being read-only mode, I'm gonna unwatch Kanel.

What a shame.

[dfstarfield.livejournal.com]

I don't think there was any ill intent in his actions. I think he just couldn't clear his current plate fast enough before he needed to take on more to cover his expenses. Mine was one of the few that just got pushed back more and more.

[talentedfool.livejournal.com]

...personally I'm kind of side-eyeing him just not working on something + wanting to change the commission entirely arbitrarily because, by his own words, "doesn't really follow [his] current interest". If he hadn't taken so long to finish the commission, that wouldn't be an issue.

Asking for a different subject/turning down a commission because the subject is something that makes you uncomfortable is one thing, but "this isn't interesting, this other thing seems more fun for me" and just not working on it anymore until your commissioner brings it up is something else entirely.

I'll agree that he probably didn't mean any harm, but it kind of felt like he was lacking professionalism in approaching this commission, possibly because you were friends. I know that kind of makes you feel like speaking ill of his behaviour as a professional is like speaking ill of him as a person, which is uncomfortable because he's still someone you probably like and have fond memories with, but I'm kind of astounded at his behaviour, and how chill and understanding you're being about it all. I mean, kudos to you for your patience and good nature. But wow.

In any case, I'm glad you got your refund, but I wouldn't hold out on that "gift art" ever manifesting if I were in your shoes. If he was dragging his feet this much on commissioned work, I can't see him putting much priority in now free art.

[hunty belmnt (from livejournal.com)]

You seem intimidated in this post. Dont be. You paid him for a job and he dragged his feet for 4 FREAKING YEARS.. Whether he meant it or not, he was unprofessional and frankly shouldn't do commissions.

PS. I'm glad you got your refund. I would've gone to a_b a week before the paypal time ran out.

[kanel-artist.livejournal.com]

The only bit of information I'm adding to this, is the fact the refund was given. (Far before this post was apparently put up. May 20th to be exact.) The transaction was concluded, as I've stated and made clear in a screenshot Dfs himself posted https://www.dropbox.com/s/h7n8t3nf54c08ke/DF%205.png?dl=0


The gift is not part of the transaction, not a priority or a promise. (Something he himself can tell me to fuck off/he doesn't want it or care. etc) Like a similar beware post, this /issue/ was resolved before hand.

But there's no denying finishing up the picture (that has been close to finished multiple times) shouldn't have taken 4 years and it should go noticed. I do not deny that.

[dfstarfield.livejournal.com]

True, this thing was submitted on the 13th. Rejected because I missed a bunch censor spots and then resubmitted the night before you sent the refund.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Went ahead and marked this as resolved for you!

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I guess I can't imagine being so unapologetic after making someone wait 4+ years. Glad you got your refund though!

[dfstarfield.livejournal.com]

Thanks, wish it ended differently but nothing can be done now.

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

idk, I can't help but find the artist's response in this thread to leave a little bit of a sour taste in my mouth; it's entirely unapologetic and doesn't even touch upon how long you had to wait to even get a refund.

and when you read the previous beware on him, it seems like the only way to get a refund after waiting months, is to threaten with an A_B.

beware well warranted.

[kanel-artist.livejournal.com]

?

There's is /no apology/ that can be placed over a 4 year wait. The whole reason I wanted to continue the picture (I was not obligated to give) was to make up for the fact he remained that damn patient with me regardless of circumstances I've never made public. (Especially considering I AM the one who offered the refund. Not the other way around.) It speaks volumes over another "i'm sorry", unintentionally or not.

I have other work I've been sorting out and getting done back to back. my priorities are else where.

So, regardless if it somehow left a "sour" taste in your mouth.

I'm not here to cut myself open and apologize for something I've already done with the commissioner personally in the past. Both verbally and through my way of compensation. (the extra bit of art/the piece actually getting finished without Money being involved)

I am not here to appease you.

I'm here to give information when it's actually needed and treating the post as it is. A transaction.

MOD COMMENT

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Heya! Please keep an eye on the amount of edits you make to a comment and try to keep it low, as moderators (and anyone who may be tracking the post) get pinged every time you edit, so it can get a little spammy for our emails after a while. Thanks!

Re: MOD COMMENT

[kanel-artist.livejournal.com]

My apologies, too many spelling errors.

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

There's is /no apology/ that can be placed over a 4 year wait. The whole reason I wanted to continue the picture (I was not obligated to give) was to make up for the fact he remained that damn patient with me regardless of circumstances I've never made public. (Especially considering I AM the one who offered the refund. Not the other way around.) It speaks volumes over another "i'm sorry", unintentionally or not.

No, it speaks volumes about your ability as a commission artist to get the work you're obligated to complete out to the client in a reasonable time, without consistently placing newer orders ahead of their own. You had every opportunity to simply terminate the commission in a rational amount of time, but you literally dragged your feet over the entire affair and made them wait four years. Whether or not you offered a refund after four years is again a moot point because not only did you not refund the client in a reasonable manner, but you only did so after they threatened to post about you.

That's not anywhere even remotely being apologetic for your actions, it comes across as simply buying time over a transaction that you not only failed to complete as per your word, but did so repeatedly.

I'm not here to cut myself open and apologize for something I've already done with the commissioner personally in the past. Both verbally and through my way of compensation. (the extra bit of art/the piece actually getting finished without Money being involved)

I am not here to appease you.

Sure, I'm not the client themselves, but I and everyone else who uses this resource, are professional artists and clients as well. In that regard, your actions here and how you portray yourself has a direct influence on whether or not people will wish to do business with you. So far, you've demonstrated that you have no issue making a client wait four years for an image, several months for a refund that you offered, and then you act in an entirely flippant regard towards the entire fiasco.

I don't blame anyone for never wanting to contribute to your livelihood if you think this all a-okay and "just a transaction".

[kanel-artist.livejournal.com]

I am no professional or rather I'm not a good professional, that much I will never claim to be given I still have much to learn considering it's a repeat of a past mistake I have yet to move past. (Communication / Keeping others up to date if something comes up. Trying my damn hardest not to make promises I cannot keep given my position.)

My point being, is that I cannot take back the fact the transaction has took 4 years to be concluded. And i'm well aware that this reflects heavily on me as an artist business wise. It was mistake for not terminating the commission far before hand regardless if I personally felt I COULD get it done.

That was my mistake.





I do NOT think this is /all okay/. Just because i'm not responding to the matter as you see fit or would handle it-- Does not mean that I condone my own actions or are okay with the choices. I try not to be too vocal. I have the biggest gripe with making others wait and damn aware it's frustrating beyond belief. Considering what personal issues I surround myself with, it happens constantly and breaks being only months apart/so little in-between before I jump back to action. I've always found it not an excuse to give an update with no image or a image with a few lines adjusted. That is my own flaw that still needs to be worked on.

Given I'm not trying to give them another "Hey, i'm sorry. there's been no update // Pushing things back because family member needs w/e". I want to give them a finished piece and if it's been a long wait more bang/upgraded/extra if I can for the fact they commissioned me in the first place. Instead of being lasso'd into a situation they did not want to happen. Not to hear some sob personal stories that went on for those 4 years and still now with no real stops.




With how the situation went, how it's been laid out and it's circumstances. I have no complaint with the post/beware. I'm frustrated I didn't get my shit together quicker, for longer periods of time and the fact the note/threat was made during an inconvenient time when I'm already trying to gather funds to handle a spread of refunds at once. (Adoptables! So as much you wish to believe the threat is what sparked the refund. it did not. The timing however was inconvenient, a bit too inconvenient.)

With my current position being what is is. ////I do not recommend commissioning me.//// (And I'll more likely staple this onto my FA page/everywhere else when I can) It's the sole reason I have been sticking away from commissions. especially larger ones. besides minor work in-between the few months. (sketches/cellshades) Until I'm actually at a point (All work has been finished) where I can freely/easily handle commissions more professionally with a better approach.


I am not at that point right now and this transaction has been concluded.




Only thing I can do NOW, is get back to work handling my remaining art and refunds to avoid another situation LIKE this. So I can try again with this post and the previous post being a big reminder of what I SHOULD avoid repeating.

(My apologies for the lengthy post or if it's TMI.)

[dfstarfield.livejournal.com]

Still would have been nice to get an apology of any kind since you seem to be done with me. Leaves salty feeling if not for both of us.

[kanel-artist.livejournal.com]

You made a post in-order to force/push my actions. "Until his promise is fulfilled". Which, I understand and I do not hold that against you. Since I should've been open on what's been going on with the hold up with the refund. You were left in the dark. That much I will apologize for, it was extremely shitty on my part. But under no circumstances am I to keep those who know nothing about my personal life in my contacts If I do not wish to.



Objectivity speaking: You have your full refund, like you intended.

So personally, no. I don't wish to speak beyond that.

[dfstarfield.livejournal.com]

I think you're missing the point here. You've apologized for keeping me in the dark or that there was no update and I thank you for that. That wasn't the apology I was looking for though. At no point have you said 'I'm sorry' for this long 4+ year wait.

It really stings how casual you've been about this whole thing. That this was just another transaction for you.



"I'm not here to cut myself open and apologize for something I've already done with the commissioner personally in the past. Both verbally and through my way of compensation. (the extra bit of art/the piece actually getting finished without Money being involved)"

"I am not at that point right now and this transaction has been concluded."



It seems like your intended apology was to finish the art as well. Since it's clear now that you don't intend to actually do the art as what seemed to be your original way of apologize for the wait. You could at least to a clear verbal one.

I don't remember the last time you said sorry for this wait before I had to come here. You're not going to do that extra bit of art/the actually getting finished. Your promise to actually do the art and refund me seems to be an empty one now since you sent the refund money.

Could you at least just say I'm sorry for making you wait 4 years for just a refund?

[kanel-artist.livejournal.com]

If you wanted an sincere personal apology on-top of all I've already said, this isn't how you go about it. At least not with me. Not in this forced way. When before you had a multitude of ways to speak with me directly and TALK as a person. Not Commissioner to Artist. But this is the approach YOU took. So absolutely not, not at this moment with how I'm feeling. Because it will not be sincere.



My promise, was a refund. Nothing else. (repeating this again. http://i.imgur.com/qHbMGtM.png )

Finishing the drawing itself was meant to give back with good intention when /I felt I could/. Not a promise or a guarantee. Rather you believe that it will never be completed or not.



I apologized verbally through stream for having you waiting so long. (WHEN i worked on the league version of the commission). And briefly apologizing over Curse Voice (When we were attempting grinding out of Silver and I offered to order food/pizza for you that day while you were on some campus. Since it seemed like you could use the money back at the time.)

These are things I cannot prove. Since they were voice calls/a stream I no longer have. So pretty much irrelevant information that doesn't add much here. If you remember them however, cool! If you don't, nothing I can do about it.


Though, what sucks is that this was not meant to be casual, robotic or Commissioner to Artist. But knowing damn well you were intentionally forcing a situation with an INTENT of getting what was owed. And you got it, in full just as you wanted! But you expect me to want to give a personal apology with you with this public display? No. I'm sorry I just can't honor that.





Anything else besides what's been posted are personal matters. I'd like to talk about it someday, but with how I am right now? No.

The post is done and has been marked as resolved. Have a good week.