(no subject)
May. 22nd, 2016 08:04 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
Subject: Artist Beware: Commissioner fr0stbit3 also known as Wyldfire
WHO: fr0stbit3 or Wyldfire
WHERE: Commission was taken via twitter and google docs. Communication was done through email.
WHAT: Wing-it Chibi Commission
WHEN: Initial commission form was completed 3/21, commission was completed 5/18, final changes to the image were completed 5/19
(should be noted that these are generally completed faster but I was envoled in a car accident)
PROOF: All screenshots and art will be posted below
EXPLAIN:
On 3/21 I took my 4th batch of chibi commissions, this being one of them. Commissioner provided their details and paid promptly. Commission cost $50.
Here is the screenshot of the commission form splashpage.
http://imgur.com/E6Srw5s
Please note the guidelines and the examples.
On 5/18 I emailed the completed commission to Fr0stbit3. Here is the response.
http://imgur.com/ttFP2fe
At this point I figured the commissioner was not as happy as they could have been, but I did the work as described and figured the commission complete. The commissioner agreed that he would take the commission as is. He seemed fine with it and then asked about me making changes. I let him know the cost of re-sketching, re-inking and re-coloring those areas to his specifications.
http://imgur.com/cMJwXav
This is where communication went downhill. After I let him know the costs for changes he became frustrated with the cost and I explained that characters are simplified as part of the commission.
You can see in the screencaps that the commissioner continues to become more irate as time went on and I contiued to re-state my TOS. Finally, the emails came to a point where they were causing me stress and distracting me from work so rather than argue more, I went ahead and made the requested changes free of charge.
I enformed him of the TOS: http://imgur.com/IRswaqU
New email tread started: http://imgur.com/AL6UsjR
My email in return explaining my reasoning and letting him know to not commission me again: http://imgur.com/fXrHStv
The client then emailed me back with the image and circled all of the errors in the image.
Email about the errors: http://imgur.com/D1h7Jqo
Larger view of errors: http://imgur.com/gZDOSSn
The final commission I sent him with the requested changes: http://imgur.com/Vn6tQvZ
After this, there were a few more rude emails so I stopped responding.
Edited to fix a link
WHO: fr0stbit3 or Wyldfire
WHERE: Commission was taken via twitter and google docs. Communication was done through email.
WHAT: Wing-it Chibi Commission
WHEN: Initial commission form was completed 3/21, commission was completed 5/18, final changes to the image were completed 5/19
(should be noted that these are generally completed faster but I was envoled in a car accident)
PROOF: All screenshots and art will be posted below
EXPLAIN:
On 3/21 I took my 4th batch of chibi commissions, this being one of them. Commissioner provided their details and paid promptly. Commission cost $50.
Here is the screenshot of the commission form splashpage.
http://imgur.com/E6Srw5s
Please note the guidelines and the examples.
On 5/18 I emailed the completed commission to Fr0stbit3. Here is the response.
http://imgur.com/ttFP2fe
At this point I figured the commissioner was not as happy as they could have been, but I did the work as described and figured the commission complete. The commissioner agreed that he would take the commission as is. He seemed fine with it and then asked about me making changes. I let him know the cost of re-sketching, re-inking and re-coloring those areas to his specifications.
http://imgur.com/cMJwXav
This is where communication went downhill. After I let him know the costs for changes he became frustrated with the cost and I explained that characters are simplified as part of the commission.
You can see in the screencaps that the commissioner continues to become more irate as time went on and I contiued to re-state my TOS. Finally, the emails came to a point where they were causing me stress and distracting me from work so rather than argue more, I went ahead and made the requested changes free of charge.
I enformed him of the TOS: http://imgur.com/IRswaqU
New email tread started: http://imgur.com/AL6UsjR
My email in return explaining my reasoning and letting him know to not commission me again: http://imgur.com/fXrHStv
The client then emailed me back with the image and circled all of the errors in the image.
Email about the errors: http://imgur.com/D1h7Jqo
Larger view of errors: http://imgur.com/gZDOSSn
The final commission I sent him with the requested changes: http://imgur.com/Vn6tQvZ
After this, there were a few more rude emails so I stopped responding.
Edited to fix a link
no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 10:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 10:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 11:07 am (UTC)Also, hadn't the artists supplied examples of what the final product would look like - with all examples having three toes in them? If those were the examples Tojo supplied, you - as the commissioner - should have understood that your character would have been handled in the same style; lesser toes and all.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 11:09 am (UTC)Like I and several others now have reiterated to you;
The artists commission splashpage completely contradicts your argument (http://i.imgur.com/E6Srw5s.png).
Namely: Characters and Markings will be simplified for better cuteness
Not just markings. The entire character. You explicitly agreed to a commission that gives the artist freedom to simplify your character and it's markings for 'better cuteness'.
I genuinely want to know what you thought was going to be simplified if not digits? It can't be markings because those are covered separately so what exactly were you expecting simplified?
You keep stressing this "unless the artists fault" but there is no fault on the artist; the artist made a stylistic choice that you were warned about in advance, namely, simplification.
Stylistic hands and feet are not in the same vein as changing a characters gender.
Again, as has been stated a few times previously; this could all have been prevented by reading the artists terms and then asking them directly to clarify something if a single toe was so important to you.
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Date: 2016-06-02 12:42 pm (UTC)Now, that being said, the overreaction and immature (hope this isn't against policy to say, apologies if so) of the commissioner does supply a beware. There is many ways that this could have gone about. If the commissioner kept a calm head and spoke this out then nothing like this would have happened. The twitter, the journals, and attitude here displayed is terrible and not someone I would want to work with based on that. I do, however, understand their side of view just not the reaction they gave. The only other problem I see here would be the nity picky of the commissioner of the larger resolution. Most pictures when drawn are not meant to be blown up to a large scale. It loses quality that way and that cannot be blamed on the artist. Those circles on the blown up image took me a while to be pointed out what was wrong. Those are so tiny mistakes that I would have never guessed about. Again that image wasn't meant to be seen at that scale.
I think if the commissioner had taken his attitude down a level this beware wouldn't have been made. Hopefully there is a lesson to be learned here. I haven't read many of the other comments so sorry if I repeat others.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 01:43 pm (UTC)That said, absolutely nothing of that excuses the way the client responded. It was way over the top, pretty much straight up harassment, over something that could have been dealt with calmly and swiftly. There was a brief apology in the comments here, but then going straight back to talking to old ways. I was going to blacklist the client due to the inability to communicate proffesionally and understand the other side of the argument, decided to wait when I saw the apology - but then did it right away after the next few comments xD
also Mods - you've done a fab job so far on this post!
(no subject)
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Date: 2016-06-03 10:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:(frozen) (no subject)
From:(frozen) mod comment
From:no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 04:02 pm (UTC)I simplify my chibis too, but they have block feet, and it's clearly in every single sample. It clear and obvious what they'll get.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-03 10:45 am (UTC)(no subject)
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From:My two cents, and some extra context
Date: 2016-06-02 06:22 pm (UTC)He later made a hate journal, calling out myself, Tojo, and other artists, wishing us bodily harm. Here's the link to the screenshot (he deleted the journal after people called him out on it) : https://imgur.com/AxGX6j4
This was from last year, so apparently Wyldfire had attempted to get art from Tojo prior, in some capacity. Possibly under a different name (he changes his name a lot). Just thought this might add more context to this situation, showing he's repeatedly gotten into fights with various artists, Tojo included.
Re: My two cents, and some extra context
Date: 2016-06-02 07:05 pm (UTC)Re: My two cents, and some extra context
From:RE: Re: My two cents, and some extra context
From:(frozen) Re: My two cents, and some extra context
Date: 2016-06-02 07:45 pm (UTC)He does seem to target a lot of the "upper echelon" of artists. I can figure out at least three of the names from that journal and all of them are artists with a LOT of watchers.
(frozen) RE: Re: My two cents, and some extra context
From:(frozen) Re: My two cents, and some extra context
From:(frozen) mod comment
From:Re: My two cents, and some extra context
Date: 2016-06-02 08:11 pm (UTC)RE: My two cents, and some extra context
Date: 2016-06-03 10:47 am (UTC)I have a sarcastic sense of humor, that's who I am. But everyone takes me way to seriously and can't take a joke and won't give me a chance to say it was just a joke
RE: My two cents, and some extra context
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From:no subject
Date: 2016-06-03 01:17 pm (UTC)Very frustrating reading the comments made by the commissioner, though. Really just seems like they're trying to deflect all blame and wrongdoing off them and back onto the artist (or anyone else). The "woe is me everyone hates me" kind of comments especially bug me. I don't understand why they think making a big deal out of this is going to help them at all. Telling a bunch of people that you're /going/ to provide screenshots (which later did happen) and complaining that this one situation is going to ruin everything isn't really helping.... Your attitude got you here, the way you're dealing with that now is going to impact you more than anything.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-03 05:56 pm (UTC)I've tried looking but at this point there's 200+ and I can't find anything.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-03 06:18 pm (UTC)http://imgur.com/a/hVuh3
Just the artist venting from the understandable frustration he caused her.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-04 02:19 am (UTC)IMO, I also think OP is in the wrong for those tweets! I get needing to vent about stuff, and this was definitely a super frustrating experience for them!But, when I get troublesome clients, I chew it out with friends through Skype, in private. Even if you're not naming names, if I saw an artist I commissioned publicly bemoaning another client, personally I'd feel uncomfortable. It's ugly airing that kind of dirty laundry out in the open like that. And an already upset and volatile client seeing himself being the butt of those tweets is just going to get even more upset.
But even with all that being said, the victim complex being displayed by the bewaree makes for resolving the issue impossible, and the language used by the bewaree in his journals and guilt tripping make my skin crawl. Saying a missing toe isn't that big of a deal, then turning around and nitpicking the finished art only after you start having personal issues with the artist? Coming in and accusing everyone commenting of taking popufur sides? I understand being upset, and I understand feeling victimised when the person you commissioned is not very subtly vaguetweeting about you, but there are still parts of this debacle that you need to take responsibility for, and it starts with the attitude displayed.
I wouldn't work with Fr0stbit3 as an artist at all, at the end of the day, and not because of the beware to be honest. I kind of read it and go, "well, that's really troublesome, but I wouldn't have handled it the way the artist did, so I doubt I'd run into these same issues". Everything I've seen them do and how they reacted to the beware however? Screams to me someone to be avoided not just as a client, but as a person.
Apparently he's improved his attitude from what it was over the years. Hopefully in another five or whatever years, he'll improve even more, and be able to handle things with more grace.
(Apologies for my chronic verbosity and two cents.)
wow.
Date: 2016-06-04 05:54 am (UTC)I keep seeing "I wish you had talked to me" well, do you let them? Multiple people have not only tried to explain things, but have AGREED with you, and they still get their head bitten off.
It's not the previous bewares that tell me I never want to work with the commissioner: it's the way they acted here. Yikes yikes yikes.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-04 03:49 pm (UTC)This beware + seeing the publicly displayed behavior spurred me to cancel the commission so I wouldn't be subjected to the same kind of nitpicking or rudeness... They asked if they could keep/use the sketch even after I gave them a full refund. I'm worried about the safety of my art now, but here's hoping nothing happens on that front.
Thanks for the beware, after seeing the behavior on both usernames and in the comments here, I feel like I dodged a bullet.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-04 08:50 pm (UTC)I'm sorry you had to even put up with that. That's so not okay.
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Date: 2016-06-05 11:01 am (UTC)I'm honestly appalled at how he responded to Tojo as her TOS specifically said that the character would be simplified. Beware is well warranted and we will both be blacklisting this guy.
(frozen) no subject
Date: 2016-06-28 04:33 am (UTC)And I'm pretty sure kabier talking smack about me on her twitter page counts as harassment.
(frozen) (no subject)
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From:(frozen) MOD COMMENT
From:Totally warranted
Date: 2016-06-06 02:49 am (UTC)totally warranted beware imo
no subject
Date: 2016-06-12 02:35 am (UTC)either way it's resolved i suppose for better or for worst. I guess we've all learned something, i hope op and commissioner have better luck with compatible business partners in the future.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-08 12:33 am (UTC)This issue is far from resolved because every single day I have new people blocking me because of what she posted. Several of which I spoke to before and never had a problem with but suddenly if you mess with one popufur, suddenly they all hate you. I tried submitting my own beware against her for her bad business trade but my post was rejected, and it hurts me even more that hers was approved.
(no subject)
From:(frozen) no subject
Date: 2016-07-08 12:37 am (UTC)Thank you very much for making me out as a terrible person and hated by many in this furry community. I thought it would have helped me considering my life sucks to begin with with my abusive father and alcoholic mother. I wanted something good here. And I had some great moments with people such as Ruadri, Byzil, and more. But one thing happens like this artist trying to scam me of my money and I'm the bad person. I'm only human, yet you expect everyone to be perfect.
I can no longer do business with anyone because the people I like all blocked me. Thank you
(frozen) mod comment
Date: 2016-07-08 03:35 am (UTC)Given that you've already previously been temporarily banned for guilt tripping Tojo over this post, it has been escalated to a permanent ban.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-09 04:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-13 07:41 pm (UTC)