Paypal Chargeback Question

[charmseys.livejournal.com]

I've tried to research this question, but I'm having a hard time finding any straight forward answers.

I had a chargeback on one of my invoices yesterday. The invoice is back from Oct 9th, and the item was delivered to the customer Oct 13.

I responded to the dispute with all our correspondences and the proof of delivery, and the image itself. However, they refunded the client's money anyhow. I promptly got a hold of the client and they informed me that their paypal had been hacked, and a lot of fraudulent charges were being made with their paypal, so they had to close their paypal account and visit their bank to file a claim.

They replied to a couple of messages I sent them on FA, and seemed apologetic, but when I asked for an estimated time I could expect the money back, they stopped responding.

Another thing I'm not sure about is the fact that had paid two invoices with me just a couple days apart, and only one of the invoices was disputed.

I'm not sure how all this works, or how I should go about this. Really, I'm thinking I should just let it go, especially if she just had an unfortunate incident occur like this. I can definitely imagine she has a lot on her plate as it stands, without me adding to it.

But any insight would be nice!

Thanks guys.

Comments

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Usually when someone files a chargeback via the bank the immediate, and most important thing to do is to call Paypal. If you just use their automated system, then you are very likely to lose your money.

How this works is that your client now has their money back. Once it clears their bank, there should be nothing stopping them from sending the funds back. If they actually were "hacked" and these aren't fraudulent chargebacks, then this shouldn't be an issue.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

This. If it's a legitimate unfortunate incident, they won't just ignore you and will make it right.

I would give them about a week to respond, poke them one more time, and if they continue to ignore you after that I would assume they are being dishonest and call paypal. If the item was digital however there is a fair chance you won't be able to get that money back through them, unfortunately.

You can, however, make a beware here if the customer refuses to make things right.

[charmseys.livejournal.com]

I'll definitely give them time! I really don't doubt the credibility of their response to me. Though I wasn't sure how chargebacks actually work, so it's comforting to get some insight into it. Especially for the future, since these things can happen.

I don't want to have to go through the whole beware business, so I'm hoping it all works out for the best.

I'm sure they're overwhelmed right now, and that is probably why they stopped responding. I'll just be happy if effort is made at all over the next few weeks.

Thank you for the response!

[charmseys.livejournal.com]

I guess that explains why I lost the money. I didn't call. I just responded to the dispute via their system.

But I will definitely keep that in mind for the future, just in case something like this occurs again. Though, of course, I hope not! Thank you for the advice.

[kalika-tybera.livejournal.com]

I dealt with this EXACT issue a few months ago. Got a chargeback on a commission, contacted the client and her Paypal had been hacked with several fraudulent chargebacks. I had about 3 current invoices from her and only two of them were chargebacked.

That said, it took a while to resolve - a few weeks? The client had to contact her bank and dispute the chargebacks, as well as contact Paypal to have the chargebacks reversed. I also had to contact Paypal to have them release the funds. It took some calls and some explaining, but eventually I did get my money back and the client apologized profusely (it wasn't her fault).

[charmseys.livejournal.com]

While I'm sorry you and your client had to go through something like this, I appreciate you sharing your story!

It definitely gives me some hope that this can all be resolved, as well as some kind of amount of time I'm looking at.

I'm more than willing to wait while they work it out, even if it's three weeks, or more.

I'm glad you got your money back, and hopefully everything was resolved for her as well!

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

I actually had to deal with something similar to this for the first time earlier this year for six months (the thrilling saga: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/908926.html)

Long story short, I had refunded them both supplies and money and they put up a dispute because the father didn't understand how much money went into the supplies and wanted all of his money back even though he was not involved in the transaction. When PayPal sided in my favor they went to their bank and disputed it there, re-opening the case. I -think- PayPal sided in their favor which would cause me to lose $1,350 as they had disputed the full amount, however PayPal was gracious enough to pay that for me and I didn't lose a dime. Go figure.

EDIT: He had lied to PayPal and said that he hadn't received the product and kept changing his reason to make sure he got his money back.

The most important thing you can do is CALL PAYPAL. Seriously. Their e-mail or online systems are horrible, they do not get back to you in a timely manner and if they do it's a regurgitated response. The people over the phones are very kind and will sympathize with you.

The next step would be to take pictures and provide proof of completion or, as in my case, proof of delivery. It appears you already did that so why they still decided in the client's favor is beyond me.

If their PayPal was hacked as they claim and they had to go to their bank they still should ask you (assuming you were communicating with them) before filing a claim. That's kind of crappy of them to just do that, especially since they received the product. People say "My PayPal was hacked, I didn't mean to file a claim!" often, it would make up a good chunk of bewares on here or instances that I've seen. I don't understand the mentality behind trying to get your money back after you have given your OK to an artist and have received a satisfying product.
In other words, don't fall for it.

Sorry about your situation, stuff like this is so crappy.

[scarab-blue.livejournal.com]

By the way, how did that whole thing turn out? I read the post a while ago and god damn, that was like a Homeric saga of crap.

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

You'll have to excuse me as I try to remember the finished outcome as my brain has tried to block out those six months.

Long story shortened:
First claim made, they changed the reason several times. Called PayPal a lot, had it decided in my favor the day after AC (so early July). August 3rd I landed in Orlando for Megaplex and found out they filed a second claim, freaked out, called them some more. They had filed the second claim through their bank as a dispute for a purchase they didn't make. PayPal decided in their favor but paid for it themselves so I didn't pay a penny. No idea why.

So they got the supplies and refund minus the 30% downpayment from me, plus $1,350 from PayPal. So roughly $2,300.

[scarab-blue.livejournal.com]

Jesus, these people. At least Paypal paid for their full bogus refund instead of you, but still. I'd be shocked if they didn't try something like this again now that they know they have a good shot of getting away with it. At least you can move on with your life now.

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Oh no, they're still trying. I've been approached at the last three conventions I've been to and received personal messages from other fursuit makers about her trying to contact them in regards to them finishing the fursuit I started or a whole new suit altogether. It makes me incredibly grateful Artists Beware exists and that the database is so well organized and ran.

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

There are quite a lot of instances of people claiming their Paypal was hacked after filing a chargeback in the hopes they can get away with stealing their money back, but as Kalika shows, not all instances of chargebacks like that are fraudulent. It's still a very common tactic for people trying to get free art, so do keep that in mind.

I mean, the fact that it was only for one invoice makes it seem more like a legitimate mistake, but at the same time, stopping correspondence is something of a red flag...so just be wary, I guess.