REPOST: Please Beware of @ZephyrtheFloof

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

MOD COMMENT
mithical has deleted the post therefore we are reposting the screencap we've taken. Screencaps of comments will come shortly after.

How/why the post was originally deleted is NOT the topic of this post. Please stay on topic of the Beware itself.

Thank you.




WHO: Zephyr The Floof (Customer of Mithacal Creatures)

WHERE: Initial contact about customer wanting a commission was on Twitter @Mithacal

WHAT: A custom made digitgrade fullsuit

WHEN: Commission Date 12-24-16. Dispute filed 5-3-17.

EXPLAIN: This customer approached us (Mithacal Creatures) on 12-24-16 to inquire about commissioning a realistic style fullsuit of her dragon character. After purchasing materials including a resin base which we had completed work in preparation for furring, she (Zephyr) changed her mind about what she wanted and asked that we change her suit to a toony style one. After some back and forth about the cost of additional materials (which she initially did not want to pay) she agreed to the additional $290 to cover new fur and toony base, eyes etc.
Zephyr had been in frequent contact with us regarding the state of her commission as well as general conversation and was well aware of the production timeline and completion state of her commission when she suddenly and without notice filed a fraudulent non-receipt dispute on PayPal. We had initially agreed to a completion time in late 2017, which was pushed back to early 2018 (March at the latest) as a result of the style change. Zephyr made no effort to ask for a refund and had previously showed no complaint nor concern for her commission, in fact she had stated just the day before the dispute that she was looking forward to seeing it done... Following her dispute filing with PayPal, she ignored our attempts to contact her via text and Twitter. When she finally did answer us she said she "had an emergency" come up and said "I knew you wouldn't give me my money back" so filed a non-receipt dispute despite knowing full well that the project was not yet finished. She admits to this in fact, both to us and on her Twitter account. Her dispute had nothing to do with her being dissatisfied in any way with our work or communication, it had everything to do with finding the easiest way to get some fast cash. Knowing that we could not provide tracking numbers to PayPal a decision in her favor was almost guaranteed. She used PayPal's policies to her advantage to scam both us and PayPal, to the point of calling them and declaring that our dispute had "been settled amicably" and cancelling her claim. This effectively shut down the investigation into her account and review of our evidence that we had requested of PayPal. There was nothing "Amicable" about the settlement of the claim at all, as she has in fact stolen our time and labor put into her commission to date as well as the materials cost invested and blocked all attempts at communication. Additionally this buyer after using a "family emergency" as an excuse for needing money, she in fact immediately began commissioning a number of artists for new artwork of her characters as soon as the refund hit her PayPal account. Her behavior has been immature, fraudulent, and extremely disingenuous. Accept commissions at your own risk, especially given that just a month prior to her dispute she said she would never do such a thing and that it was "wrong" to do that to an artist when showing support to us following an issue with an unrelated customer.


http://sta.sh/01bjus6wtj1s

This is the buyers Twitter account following her blocking us from communicating with her following the dispute filing.



http://sta.sh/21iujrp12kky?edit=1

These show the buyer asking for a basic quote and acknowledging the 50% NON-REFUNDABLE deposit required.

http://sta.sh/01yob8jv6s4y

Here is the buyer agreeing to an early 2018 completion time before sending the deposit of $1900.

http://sta.sh/024shatfi0e9

This screenshot shows the buyer texting us the day before the dispute was filed. Everything seemed fine, then she finally answered us and said she was "asking for a refund" (Never asked, if forcing one through a PayPal chargeback is "asking" then someone needs to learn some serious communication skills...) due to a "serious family issue". She later spent this refund on more art. The "slander" she speaks of was simply a beware post on Twitter showing the exact same screenshots as those shown here.

http://sta.sh/219jghos82qr?edit=1



This series of screenshots shows us and the buyer discussing the dispute and completion time which after showing her proof she admits was not until next year.

http://sta.sh/02a13fp98aji

This is the buyer showing support for us a month prior to filing a dispute when we had an unrelated issue with another buyer. She also shows intent to continue with her monthly payments for the remaining balance due, just days after sending her payment for April, the last one we received.


http://sta.sh/2mu5glqiy9g?edit=1


Buyer on her Twitter telling someone else that we in fact had not been late completing her commission, this posted days after filing a PayPal dispute.

http://sta.sh/21udk4q4y9ay?edit=1


These show Zephyr commissioning art on 5-10-17 following her "family emergency" and claiming a desperate need for money. This happened to be the day a partial refund from PayPal for $211.11 was credited to her account...

http://sta.sh/02641usqyh0k

Proof of being blocked by her on Twitter


Thank you for reading and please beware of this customer.

SCREENCAP OF BEWARE: https://www.dropbox.com/s/70z6ztbb4c1isb8/Community_Moderation_-_2017-05-21_16.20.01.png?dl=0

SCREENCAP OF SOME COMMENTS: https://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/2520217/638739d4042d0d55d34ad144035c5961

Comments

MOD COMMENT [DO NOT REPLY]

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Please note these emails will be out of order/thread.
COMMENTS CAP 1: https://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/2520217/638739d4042d0d55d34ad144035c5961
EMAIL CAPS 2: https://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/2520238/98c2a12ad2489f141315931779e3afd9
EMAIL CAPS 3: https://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/2520243/875b07bdac619f525c562f8d0f68ef4c
4:
https://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/2520250/52ea93408cb8675b5fb96bd4f1452f31
5:
https://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/2520255/dfce1c6a90e2624e22369f1f5c9e94f0
6:
https://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/2520282/ea85e9a8720211f9d2618d1e3b6ac6fe
7:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lvhle6983v7w7o0/emailcap1.png?dl=0
8:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgapka0keh4pzgk/emailcap2.png?dl=0

RE: MOD COMMENT [DO NOT REPLY]

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

On my mobile the dropbox versions seem to be compressed to the point where they are unreadable. I have downloaded them also. Not sure if it's just me, though.

EDIT
I replied in the wrong spot, I don't want to delete this comment before giving the mods a chance to decide what to do.

Re: MOD COMMENT [DO NOT REPLY]

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

First off you're not allowed to delete comments.

Secondly damage is done I cannot go in and edit the comment. But I'll say its my fault as I did not freeze my comment.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

I never got to see what comments were given to me in the last entry.

I'll just repeat what I said before, and that's just encouraging to seek some alternative methods of receiving payment if your transaction exceeds $1,000. Paypal just doesn't seem to be the most fair to sellers.

[latiro.livejournal.com]

Goodness! That's incredibly low of Zephyr to do such a thing. What got me the most is that she's pretending to show support to Mithacal, then turns around and files a PayPal dispute out of the blue. And to put a cherry on top of an unpleasant dessert, she lied about having a "family emergency", yet she spends money on commissions instead.

Beware warranted.

[bourbon. (from livejournal.com)]

I'll just repeat what I said right before it was deleted. The person the beware is about did some really low things, and I can understand being angry/frustrated.

However, the OP's comments and attitude on the beware also have me sideeying them pretty hard.

[zrcalo.livejournal.com]

agreed

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with this comment. The bewaree did some nasty things but with an attitude like OP's I can't say I want to do business with either of them.

[sillygosling.livejournal.com]

I kind of sympathize with their indignation, theyre out 3000 after all and that is pretty scary. Rules are rules though, and now she knows them for better or worse. Im glad the beware got put back up; This client should definitely not get to walk away unpunished.

[clockmagic.livejournal.com]

My thoughts exactly.

[mortymaxwell.livejournal.com]

If it was me, I would not want to work with either person. The bewaree behaved awfully, but in screenshots of the reposted beware, the OP was getting called out for posting their former client's real life personal info all over social media. I don't think that was an appropriate thing to do.

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

With the situation as it is, I'm reaching out to PayPal myself and seeing exactly what protections we as artists have.

Should I make a separate post to a_b with the results?

[vioskotty.livejournal.com]

It may be a good idea so it doesn't get lost in the comments of the post here I think? I'll be very interested to see what they have to say because I'd rather not keep using a service that has no protections for sellers.

[everainsley]

In response to your comment above, try these? I can read them on my mobile, tho I have to zoom in.

7:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/lvhle6983v7w7o0/emailcap1.png?dl=0

8:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xgapka0keh4pzgk/emailcap2.png?dl=0

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

Yes, those work. Thanks!

mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Yes, please make a separate post about it. We would like the topic of Paypal to not dominate this post.

I would reach out to Paypal multiple times, however. In the past I've done this exact thing for the purposes of being able to advise people in A_B matters. Every. Time. I have received different information depending on the avenue in which I contacted Paypal. Their Twitter seems to be very poorly informed. Email customer support is a little better, and phone support depends on who you get.

I also want others to bear in mind that Paypal has never covered "custom made items" which would include fursuits.

Re: mod comment

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

Thanks for preparing me for that. I'll ask for the name of the person who helps, that way I have an exact name for reference, should something come up.

Is there anything you guys suggest I inquire about exactly? So far I've made this list:
>Do they honour the TOS an artist includes on their invoices. If not, why. If so, what are the guidelines?
>Suggestions for protecting yourself when doing digital work.
>An exact definition of what adult art can and cannot be sold using paypal.

Re: mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a good start. The last thing I would bring up are premade suits as they are technically custom made items, but are already completed.

Good luck! And to prevent this post from veering off further, feel free to PM me if you would like to run a discussion post by us. It sounds like you would be good to go.

[rendrassa.livejournal.com]

Please do!

[weisk.livejournal.com]

Yikes, I was planning on commissioning this artist in the future as we had chatted previously and I found they lived close to me, but after their attitude here I'm not so sure anymore :-/

[kell0x.livejournal.com]

....why not the artist trough? it seems the client was acting out of order here or is the client also an artist?

[mortymaxwell.livejournal.com]

I would refrain from commissioning the artist (Mitha/Mithacal Creations) who made the beware, because they were posting the client's personal info on social media, took a hostile tone, and have a beware themselves where they canceled a commission on a different client, refused to issue a refund and resold the character's unaltered costume. https://artists-beware.dreamwidth.org/1636756.html Both clients behaved very inappropriately towards Mitha, but in both instances, the artist lashed back and responded in turn in an extremely unprofessional manner.

[kell0x.livejournal.com]

ohhh welp, had no idea.

This is now a Beware on both the client and OP

[everainsley]

You know, I thought I remembered the name of the OP from here before...

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

I recognized that beware, then saw my old comments and it refreshed my memory.

So, OP does have a history of being hostile towards clients, but posting their personal information to Twitter is incredibly unprofessional.

[latiro.livejournal.com]

I remembered reading that old beware on the OP and I knew that name sounded familiar.

Beware very well warranted on both the client and the OP!

[kell0x.livejournal.com]

No idea what happened but wow, you did everything to make your cient satisfied and happy and the Client agreed. Not once asking for a refund and then defends their Paypal claim by stating '' you need to understand that not everything goes as plans''

wow

Re: This saddens me

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

You're welcome to share your side at any time provided that our rules be abided by.

Re: This saddens me

[zrcalo.livejournal.com]

I'll start out by saying, I'm terribly sorry for your loss, and many people grieve differently from others.

that being said, it was still very unprofessional to pull your money like that. Even if it was for your father's funeral. You have to remember that there's another person on the other side of that who is relying on that money too. Irregardless of what emergency occurs, its important to at least contact the person you're commissioning and let them know ahead of time what the situation is.

Not only that, but many funeral homes and such offer payment plans, and dont request all the money up front. Its important to look at all options available before harming another person financially like that. Not only that, but it could bite you in the butt and you could end up spending MORE money if they take you to court (which might still happen).

Now having a family member die is indeed a traumatic event, it doesnt excuse the lack of communication. Especially if afterwards you could communicate easily with others to commission pieces.

[fralea comms (from livejournal.com)]

Wow, first the artist deletes the beware and now the customer deletes their comment with their side of the story? o__o

Mod Comment - Repost

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Reposting Zephyr's response as recorded via our text logs.

Hello people of the comments, I am Zephyr. Let me start by saying the fact that nobody wants to hear my side of the story is sad. Secondly the fact that everyone thinks I made up a family emergency is just plain ignorant and rude. You should NEVER assume if you truly do not know. I did have a very personal family emergency which was my fathers death. When it happened it was sudden and I panicked. I was the only family he had other then his sister. (They hasn't spoken in years.) So I needed the money to help fund his funeral. (I'm his only child.) Yes I do agree I should have asked for the refund first and gone about this a different way but like I said, I panicked. I'm sure anyone who loses a family member would be not in their right minds either. Now let me state I told her she can post a beware on me all she wanted but I asked her multiple times to please take my personal information off twitter. She would not do that. She kept posting my information and behaving very poorly which I would not expect from a business owner. You could ask ANY of the artist that have worked with me that I'm a great customer. Oh and to explain me buying art "as soon as the money hit my account" is total bull. I have a full time job where I work 4 days a week 12 hours a day. I can spare $5-$10 if I please. Lastly the reason I blocked her on twitter is because she kept tagging me which in return brought on immaturity and hatred that I did not need to see. She had lost 2 previous clients since December (when I first paid her.) She didn't harass them or put their information all over twitter to make it a big deal. She just moved on and sold what she had already made. So I have no idea as to why she only did that with me, either way it happened. So as I've stated I know what I've done is not right, but even so she went about it the wrong way herself. I'm sure she still has my phone number so she can call or text me all she wants if she needs to. I also still have hers saved in my phone and she is NOT blocked from calling or texting me. I even told her in twitter DM's before I blocked her account to text me if she'd like to speak further. Anyway thanks for listening if you have any questions that I feel I am obligated to answer I will try to. Thanks from Zephyr.

Edit: Screencap (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ljwmdov6tk9s7ij/zephyrresponse.png?dl=0)

Re: Mod Comment - Repost

[torch-tiger.livejournal.com]

Not sure where you got that "nobody wants to hear my side of the story". This community welcomes both sides of the story.


"You could ask ANY of the artist that have worked with me that I'm a great customer."

Well the only artist that we know of posted a beware on you...


"She had lost 2 previous clients since December (when I first paid her.) She didn't harass them or put their information all over twitter to make it a big deal."

They probably didn't do a charge back and steal money.


"She would not do that. She kept posting my information and behaving very poorly which I would not expect from a business owner."

Some business owners take your picture and post it on a bulletin board in their shop when you owe them money, or at least they used to.


"Oh and to explain me buying art "as soon as the money hit my account" is total bull. I have a full time job where I work 4 days a week 12 hours a day. I can spare $5-$10 if I please."

So she didn't buy art when she got the money back, but the art she bought (apparently when she got the money back?) didn't cost much so it's okay...um, what?


"if you have any questions that I feel I am obligated to answer I will try to."

Considering you deleted your comment I have to assume you don't feel "obligated" to answer any questions.


It amazes me how she seems to feel fine about theft because she wasn't in her "right mind", and she feels harassed. Well maybe the artist wasn't in their "right mind" after being blindsided by a charge back and losing a $1900 non-refundable deposit.

I don't know what's with these two, but I wouldn't want to deal with either of them.

Re: Mod Comment - Repost

[fralea comms (from livejournal.com)]

To be fair its considered very bad form in the online community to release personal details like full name, regardless of legality, since some people keep their internet lives separate. The equivalent to posting a name and photo online is posting usernames (sometimes email), really. Zephyr hadn't purged their accounts or changed personas so it wasn't necessary for identifying them.

Not that I think that excuses Zephyr's behavoir. Their info was only released after the chargeback afaik so I'm not really sure what that's supposed to excuse.

[dragontripmon.livejournal.com]

Wow after reading the recap from the deleted post and now the deleted comment from the client. All i can say is that they both dug themselves a deep hole that they are going to have a hard time getting out of.

[sillygosling.livejournal.com]

In response to Zephyr: there is no excuse for taking the deposit as well. Even in an emergency a non refundable deposit is just that: a nonrefundable amount of money that you agree is what the artist keeps if you decide to cancel/pull out so theyre not out on time and materials. You failed to communicate your intention, and by taking the deposit on top of the refund you violated a contract and gave yourself a bad name. If you are truly wanting to resolve this return the deposit amount at least or work out a similar deal with the artist.
ETA: the only time a nonrefundable deposit should be returned is if the artist defaults or decides to cancel the commission. Or if the client cancels none of the amount was spent on materials yet.

[clockmagic.livejournal.com]

Customer isn't doing themselves any favors by also deleting their comment. Beware is warranted regardless of the situation that came up for them.
I feel for OP and hope they can recover from this, and that they also learn to respect to community that is trying to help.