Need Advice

[ganren.livejournal.com]

EDIT 2/21/09: The artist in question has issued my refund. I'm not particualarly happy with her irresponsible behavior, but she did pay me back and I consider this resolved. Thank you to everyone who offered advice for the given situation, I genuinely appreciate it.


Hi, I’m new to Artist’s beware (and the particular situation I’m having) so I hoping to find some advice to help me with my current problem.

At AC ’07 I commissioned an artist for a $20 ink drawing for a friend. The artist seemed nice and when I went to pay them they told me I didn’t need to pay up front. I said I didn’t mind, and they shrugged and accepted the payment. I gave them a piece of paper with my name and what I commissioned and left.

2 months later

I contacted them through FA to check up on the commission and kindly ask for the status of the commission. Instead of answering the question, they began talking about the person I commissioned it for and since they seemed nice, I didn’t think at the time they might be averting my question. I let it slide and eventually the conversation ended.

4 months later

I contacted them again to get an idea of the status of my commission (as in, what place in line it was in or roughly how long it would take to complete) as well as another question too. They answered the other question but again averted the status question. Again they seemed nice and again I didn’t think at the time they might be averting my question, so yet again I let it slide and decided to give them time before contacting them again.

7 months later

I contact them yet again to ask the question that was never answered. They read the note but didn’t answer it and after waiting three days I resent the note. They apologized saying they forgot to reply and again they try to avert the question by asking me if I still wanted the same commission. I remained civil, answered their question and reasked mine. Note was read but not responded too, 4 days later I resend it. Again it was read but not responded too, 3 days after that I reasked the question and they replied by telling me they couldn’t give me an answer. I never heard back from them that after that.

At this point, I’m really, REALLY uncomfortable so I noted some of their previous customers for credibility and feedback. They assured me that the artist would never screw over their customers but did admit that the artist is REALLY slow to complete their commissions. The only assurance I’ve gotten about this artist is from their customers.

4 ½ months later – The Present

At this point, I don’t feel my commission is going to be done any time soon and I really don’t feel comfortable being left in the dark like that. I’d like to just cancel the commission, receive my refund and quietly walk away without drama, however there’s a problem.


The artist’s commission tab on their FA page says they’re pretty adamant about not accepting payment up front. I’m concerned that if I ask for a refund the artist in question may try to say I never paid them (I paid cash at AC 07 unfortunately, I don’t have a receipt of any kind) or possibly genuinely forget (irresponsibly) and because this artist is REALLY REALLY freakin’ popular, I’m concerned they could start a shit-storm and people will blindly believe them.

So my question is, how should I go about canceling the commission? How should I ask for the refund? What do I do if they artist refuses to refund me or makes excuses?

Any and all feedback/advice is greatly appreciated and if anyone has any questions about the situation, please feel free to ask.


Thank you kindly in advance to anyone who offers any feedback or advice.

Comments

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

You didn't get a receipt? I thought AC was the official "seller" of the art due to a law where anyone selling art in there has to have a license, so they get the license, handle the money for everyone and part of the system is you have to bring a receipt back to the artist as proof that you paid the guys handling that?

Having never been to AC, I could be confused. I was just sure I read that somewhere.

[dazen-cobalt.livejournal.com]

it could of been a side deal or something along those lines. I commissioned one guy unoffically myself. Also when I went to ac this past year I paid a few of the artist on the dealer's side straight cash. Maybe its just the alley part that is handled by ac as the "offical" seller?

[ganren.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I got the commission from them in the Dealer's Den. There doesn't seem to be any official receipts given from people selling from there - you only get those from people at Artist's Alley.

And yeah, from what I experienced, it seems AC as the "official" seller only applies to Artist's Alley, not the Dealer's Den.

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

You can email the person one last time, telling them to please refund your money in the next week because it obviously isn't getting done. If they give you some shit about that, just email the head of anthrocon dealer's den and inform them that they failed to complete a transaction. They're pretty good about that kind of stuff and it not being OK with them. Then again, they might not do anythign about it. It's worth a shot, though. Still, give the artist a warning first so they can panic and get it done, or refund you your money

[ganren.livejournal.com]

I actually didn't think of that and will definitely take that into consideration.

Thank you for the advice. :)

[ganren.livejournal.com]

When I bought prints from people in Artist's Alley, they give you a receipt to take up to this side area to pay through AC, you come back with the paid slip and recieve what you paid for.

When I bought prints from people at the Dealer's Den, (and where I made this commission) you pay directly to the person there. I've never recieved a receipt for any of the prints I bought from DD (or the commission I paid for). So hence my problem. :\

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay. I had thought DD and AA were both covered by that same thing, but I guess not. DD is rather informal comparatively, is it not?

[ganren.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think people who sign up for the Dealer's Den are those who signed up far in advance of the con and have gone through the proper procedures and paperwork that allow them to legally sell their artwork/goods. I’m not entirely sure of all the details as I’ve only heard bits and pieces from friends who did DD.

Artist’s Alley however, I know has a drawing to see who gets in every day (like ON the day) and since it’s not known who’s going to be selling at Artist’s Alley in advance, they need to sell their goods through AC.

Hope that makes sense.

[aerfox.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't worry about fantards. If the artist is in the wrong, he's in the wrong, end of story.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, some fantards are insane. I wouldn't want to have my userpage ripped apart by some of them. A friend of mine created a species that her more popular friend used for inspiration and even after the popular one said "HEY! Artist A did it first!!!", the fantards still ripped into her so badly she took everything involving that species down. :/

[ganren.livejournal.com]

I've seen one too many times, where popular artist's will complain about someone and their fans tend to blindly believe them without questioning the details or hearing the other person's side before coming to a conclusion.

I could definitely be wrong and the artist could refund me with absolutely no problem. But their behavior has made me really wary of them and I feel it's possible they might start drama about something I really, really just want out of. -_-

[kinas.livejournal.com]

If you're going to ask for a refund, it's always best to be firm but polite. Simply state the facts (as in, it's been over 4 months now and that they're avoiding your enquiries) and see how you go.

I know I'd rather an "I've been caught up thanks to whichever" (Which hey, happens) than not to hear jack =/ It's not very fair on you, and it shows poor communication from the artist.

[ganren.livejournal.com]

I guess I don't understand why they wouldn't answer a simple question when all I wanted was a simple answer. I'd understand if an artist was having a tough time completing the commission or had life issues or something, but not when they keep me in the dark like that. :\

I'm going to try the firm but polite route as you suggested. Thank you for the advice/feedback. :)

[kinas.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it really makes you wonder sometimes. Perhaps it's just not owning up to resposibility :D That seems to be a popular one.

And no worries~! Hope it works out for ya!

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Not every artist who's bad about commissions/communication is going "sic" his or her "fantards" on you ^_~

Politely ask for a refund and warn others if he/she doesn't help resolve the issue.

[animecat.livejournal.com]

Yup, some of us who can be slow with commissions (myself included) don't even HAVE flying fantard monkeys to sic on people! ;)

[ganren.livejournal.com]

I definitely know some people might be slow with commissions and that it doesn't necessarily mean they're not trying to complete them or be irresponsible.

But I'm bothered by the fact that they wouldn't answer a simple question I asked and kept leaving me in the dark. I wouldn't have had a problem waiting as long as I understood why I was waiting and it was something understandable/reasonable. :\

[ganren.livejournal.com]

Oh I know not everyone is like that and that it's entirely possible they will give me a refund without any flak. I'm just concerned (and wasn't really sure what to do) if something goes south when I just want out. :\

But thank you for the feeback/advice. I will try that route. :)

[foxxieangel.livejournal.com]

I'd politely ask for a refund. You shouldn't feel threatened by their "status" in the furry art world, also not all artists are going to set their fans you :-)

[ganren.livejournal.com]

Oh I know not all artist's would do that. I'm concerned this might be one of the artist's who might though. And only because I don't have a receipt and the artist's commission tab on FA says their adamant about not recieving payment up front. (I probably wouldn't be suspicious of this possiblity if they would have answered my question instead of continously blowing me off like that.)

So I feel vulnerable if they decide to tell people I'm trying to screw them over (whether because the artist lies or becuase they genuinely forgot and jumped to negative conclusions) and I don't have the proof to defend myself (other than notes between the artist and I, I suppose, but those aren't as solid as a reciept).

I could defintiely be wrong and they could just refund me with no problem. I'm just concerned if they decide to start war or refuse to refund me and this turns into drama. I've seen a lot of fans blindly believe people without questioning the details or hearing the other persons side. :\


Anyways, thank you kindly for the feedback. I definitely appreciate it and politley asked for a refund. :)

[synnabar.livejournal.com]

Politely ask (though it sounds like you're being very polite already!) for a refund one more time. Put "commission refund?" or "canceling commission?" in the subject line. Say something like, you really don't mean to be a bother, but at this point you are no longer interested in the commission, and would like to request a refund, and that's all. Is there an email to contact the artist by, too?

If the person is as reputable as others say, there should be no problem. As an artist myself I know sometimes stuff happens, but that doesn't mean you should lose out on $20.

(As for AC, you get a receipt for purchases made in the Artist's Alley, but you may not get one in the Dealer's Den. You should be able to ask for a receipt, though!)

Good luck to you. It sounds like you have been very patient and polite.

[ganren.livejournal.com]

I took your advice for the subject line and tried to keep the note civil and clear that I didn't mean any disrespect, but also made it clear that I wanted to cancel the commission.

I don't know their email address so I can only really do this through notes. :\

And yeah, from now if I commission people through Dealer's Den anymore, I will definitely ask for a receipt from now on.

Anyways, thank you kindly for the feedback/advice. I greatly appreciate it. :)

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

It sounds as though the artist has been civil, but certainly irresponsible. I can do nothing but parrot what others have said; hopefully it will be settled quietly and without drama!

[ganren.livejournal.com]

Oh hey! You has a Livejournal!

But about the situation. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that the artist is a selfish, uncaring bastard; It's certainly possible they didn't mean any ill-will in some way and that they really are a nice person. But the problem is that I don't know them, I don't know why they wouldn't answer my question and because of it, I'm now uncomfortable being in this situation and just want out. I can't trust someone who won't answer the question (which I didn't think was unreasonable) despite their intent because I'm being left in the dark about something I paid for.

Anyways, thank you for the hopeful, quiet settlement without drama. I really hope this ends maturely. ._.;

[candiedmouth.livejournal.com]

Having read all the information now, I would like to ask what the name of the artist is? Given your information, I think I have an idea, and if it's who I think it is, it would be good for this community to know because the artist in question claims to be 'reformed' now.

[ganren.livejournal.com]

Kamicheetah.

I sent my cancelation note to her on friday, taking everyone's advice, with my paypal address and told her if she doesn't have paypal to contact me for some other means of returning my refund that works for her.

She responded (that day) by saying "If that's how it is, that's how it is."

My payal is still empty. I'm giving her till tuesday before I contact her again (To eliminate the possibility that Paypal was just slow to process this), but I gotta bad feeling she's not going to pay me back. So I gotta feeling I'm going to end up posting an official beware of her soon.

[candiedmouth.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Well, it's not who I thought it was XD I've actually never heard of issues with her being reliable before. We'll see how it turns out.

[kercaden.livejournal.com]

Since I noticed that this was not updated, I figured I'd come here myself to say the issue was resolved. Yes it took a week to get the pay him but it got to him. It was payed through E-check so that didn't help matters any. There seems to be no mention of me keeping him updated on getting the payment to him at all. When I sent him notes on the $10 and again on the 15th. As for the con itself, I recall I did mention I don't take money up front but it was insisted that it was okay since it was only $20. My fault for going back on my own rules. Live n' learn.

[kercaden.livejournal.com]

My bad, resolved tag. :> Either way rest of the post still applies.

[ganren.livejournal.com]

In regards to the post above made by kercaden (Kamicheetah).

1) It took 15 days before I got a notice in paypal for a pending payment, not a week. It cleared 4 days after that and then I made an edit on the 21st (2 days after it cleared) saying this was resolved. I have screenshots of the notes and the paypal stub as proof if anyone calls for it.

2) When I canceled the commission on January 30th 09, she only gave me a vague answer of “if that’s how it is, that’s how it is”. I waited 4 days then contacted her again for her to tell me then that she needed time to transfer funds to her paypal account. Since that was possible, I told her I would give her the time needed to transfer the funds. I was going to wait about a week.

A week later she contacted me saying she was in the middle of travel and not really online much. Why didn’t she mention this up front? when she said she needed time to transfer the funds a week ago? I asked her if paypal cleared her money transfer and no response.

5 days after that she then tells me she’s waiting on a reply from a friend to get me my refund and I finally got a pending statement that day.

She is correct that she did contact me on the 10th and the 15th, but she only kept me informed towards the end, not up front which would have been credible.

3) I already mentioned in the original post that she said I didn’t need to pay up front, but I said I didn’t mind. I’m not hiding anything that transpired between us.


I wasn’t going to get into details about what happened during the refund process, but seeing as she’s giving a response that is slightly skewed, I figured I should make it clear now. I have screenshots of every single note that transpired between us from beginning to end. If anyone calls for proof, I’ll gladly show you everything that was said.

Despite her irresponsibility, she did pay me back. So as I said in the edit at the top, this is resolved.

[kercaden.livejournal.com]

I gave you the vague answer because really, at that point it was how it was. What was I going to do? Try and convince you not to take your money back?

Sharpness aside, I'm not mad, man. I just posted so that it goes on record that I did try to keep you up to date on why your payment was taking so long to get back to you. No, I didn't go into extensive detail as to why it took so long, I figured as long as I was getting the payment to you that it wasn't important how it was getting done.

You seem to be under the impression I'm trying to make you look back when I'm not. I'm actually trying to improve my own image. Cause you didn't mention that I had sent you notes about the traveling. And as for the keeping you informed at the beginning and end, that's my fault again. Which I accept and acknowledge. It's not skewed if you agree that's what happened. I have the notes as well. I'm not even trying to disprove anything you said...? What..?

[kercaden.livejournal.com]

Oh I see. I got the dates wrong so you think I'm trying to skew stuff.