Warning: Zerocreature

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

Hallo!

Basically gonna quote inaliwhitewolf:

I wanted to alert you of a client that I just had a very negative experience with. I do not know how she will treat other artists in the future, however, I thought people should know of this.

Zero commissioned me at AC last year ('08) for a $20 traditional badge. I got extremely swamped and had trouble keeping up with all my commissions, so asked if I could take it home and send it to her later- to which she agreed. Back in July I had posted a journal on my Deviantart account requesting addresses from my commissioners, so I could send out their badges when I was finished.

Since July, there has been a lot going on in my life. I don't feel it's necessary to go into detail about everything, but an example of what I was dealing with was my grandfather passing away and my entire family accusing me of not caring because I didn't drop what I was doing and hop on a plane (which I wouldn't have been able to afford anyway) last minute and attend the funeral. It was a huge emotional strain and really hit me hard.

I will admit, firstly, that I am guilty of not keeping in good contact with my commissioners. I recognized that I was doing a poor job of keeping up with everyone, so I posted general updates on DA, but eventually decided that it was best to offer refunds to everyone who had been waiting a long time for their commissions. Everyone, save about 3 or 4 people, has contacted me and I've already refunded their commissions. I'm in the process of contacting the remaining people.

Zero (who I hadn't heard from since a note containing her mailing info in July) sent me a note filled entirely with threats and lectures, basically telling me that she either wanted the finished commission or her money back. She was very rude and overreacted, when all she had to do was discuss the issue in a calm, mature manner and I would have been happy to resolve the issue. I responded to her the very next day explaining that she didn't have to come at me like that. I told her that I'd be glad to send her a refund and requested her Paypal info.

I sent that note in November of '08 and had been waiting to hear from her up until a couple of days ago. She hadn't even read the note on DA. I realized only recently that she also had an account on Furaffinity, so I copied and pasted my note with an additional side note explaining that I'd been trying to contact her since November and simply wanted to resolve the issue.

She responded with more rudeness and lectures on the "right" way to handle commissions, etc. Three times I attempted to get her information so I could send her refund, but she kept ignoring my request and continued acting childishly and informed me that she was going to "expose" me as a bad artist. She posted a journal on FA telling people that she wanted to warn everyone about an artist and would reveal who it was privately if they noted her. Two of my friends responded to her journal, shedding some light on her twisted version of the situation and she deleted the journal. She also replied to my note and failed, once again, to provide her info and told me to stop harassing her, then proceeded to block me on FA. I wasn't aware that trying to retrieve Paypal info to send a refund was...harassment? I could be wrong. I also don't understand why you would block someone you're attempting to get money from?

For the sake of not giving her the chance to try and say I ran off with her money and didn't try contacting her, I sent a note to her DA account explaining that it was my final attempt to resolve the issue. If she didn't provide the necessary information to allow me to refund her money, I'd assume she didn't want it. The end. I have all of her notes saved, as well as some screen caps of the last note I sent her and my Inbox that shows all of the notes she's sent me. I'm just trying to cover myself, because I don't know what she's going to try to do on her quest to attempt to ruin my reputation as an artist.

I just wanted to warn people about this girl. I'm sure she can be a nice person when she wants to be, but if you don't follow her own ideas of how the commission process goes, she will most likely throw a similar fit and give you a whole lot of unnecessary drama/lectures. She doesn't believe there are any excuses that justify delays in commissions, so if anyone dies in your family or you have to go to the hospital for health problems...you are probably a bad artist 8|

I am fully prepared to defend my reputation as a GOOD artist and have several people who can testify that I have never been shady or unfair in any way. I am more than willing to explain this whole situation in detail and provide solid evidence that Zero is taking everything completely out of context. If you have any questions or anything, you can reach me on DA/FA/LJ/AIM/MSN/Email. I have nothing to hide with this situation.

Thanks C:

--------------------

***EDIT***
Where I'm at with this whole thing is best summed up by anjel_kitty:

"Yeah both parties could have handled this situation a lot better, the artist in communication and the commissioner in her ill tempered response to the lack of communication. If anything readers should take away from this it is that an artist has an obligation to be communicative, and the commissioner should refrain from resorting to internet threats of "ruining" their reputation and making angry public journal entries which call the artist names when not responded to.

In the interest of a better way to resolve the situation in the commissioners case though, if she couldn't get in contact with the artist, a polite inquiry on the community would have been her better bet."

I'm posting all of the scans and screenshots I have, for those who had requested them. I'd simply like to move on and learn from this situation, rather than start all kinds of new drama. Soooo...I may not reply. If it's a valid question, I will answer it, but if it's something I've already covered either here or in my other post, then I won't respond. I'd like to avoid repeating myself over and over xD I also refuse to participate in any more lingering drama wars. I feel that I was wrong about some things and that Zero was wrong about some things. All we can really do is learn from this C:

Receipt scans from AC '08



My Inbox, indicating which notes I did receive from Zero. Apparently there were a couple of others sent? But I never received them. I suspect a possible DA glitch, as there have been at least two website updates since July.



The two notes from July that I failed to reply to. I clearly just skimmed them, as I only just now realized she mentions watching me on DA. Not sure if she actually did or not though.





The beginning of everything (for me, at least)





At this point, there was that 3 month period that I hadn't heard from her. I happened to stumble across her FA page (I didn't know if she had one or not, so I typed her name in on a whim and viola), so decided to send a note there in an attempt to reach her, in case she had been busy or forgot or whatever the reason.



Her responses





Our conversation up until the point she blocked me on FA







Screenshot of my FA inbox, just because



So then I got blocked and couldn't send her any note on FA. Rather than dropping it, I made the extra effort to make sure she got my response, so it couldn't be said that I wasn't attempting to contact her or that I was running off with her money. Hopped back on DA to continue trying to get info from her









And since it's been pointed out that I should be making more effort to contact people, I looked for her email or some form of contact info. Her FA and DA pages have no info, so I had to hop on her LJ to locate an email address. I sent another copy/paste in order to try and ensure she received my message, since it has also been mentioned that she doesn't get on DA much. Only posting half of it, since it's just a repeat.



And that's all I have to share. I've never been given an answer as to whether or not she actually has a Paypal account. I'm assuming she does, since she seems to commission frequently? Honestly, I would much rather prefer to use Paypal for several reasons...the most important being that I don't feel comfortable giving her any of my personal information. That and I'm paranoid when it comes to mailing important stuff (like money). I work for UPS and see first hand how many letters/packages get lost or delayed. I would much rather have a safe/fast transaction. Is that a reasonable request? Or am I being unreasonable?

Comments

[candiedmouth.livejournal.com]

I can vouch that, while KKitty is occasionally bad at contact (what am I supposed to be doing for Wolf Movie, bosslady?! XD), she is a very professional artist and I have had multiple GREAT experiences commissioning her.

Just in case we needed a testimonial :) I can provide links to the commissions she did for me if anyone needs.

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

You know I tell people up front that I get distracted and crap xD Which is why I always encourage people to drop me a line if they don't hear from me!

P.S. I owe you like...so many notes concerning our to-do lists 8|

[zerocreature.livejournal.com]

can vouch that, while KKitty is occasionally bad at contact (what am I supposed to be doing for Wolf Movie, bosslady?! XD), she is a very professional artist...

This is a contradiction in terms.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

I remember this girl when she use to go by Sadia or something to that affect. Had bit of a temper way back then too.
It seems like she didn't want her money back as much as she wanted the drama and wanting to lecture you about how you should conduct yourself as an artist. That is the only reason I can really see for her blocking you and giving you such a hard time when all you wanted to do was refund her money and be done with the transaction.

sorry to see this happened to you.

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it seems like she has a temper issue. That's really my only beef with her. I thought she was very nice before all this xD

[zerocreature.livejournal.com]

Well, lovely to see you too, Anjel... can we refrain from talking about old drama? This incident you're referring to, was when I was still a teenager. I'm 27 now. It's been at least eight years, and I haven't had a bit of significant drama since then, that does not either stem from that time period. And frankly, I don't talk about you... even though, as many people will attest, you're often in the middle of a LOT of drama.

This situation with KKitty is basically a miscommunication.

My issue is not really so much the refund. I'm doing well financially- it's mostly on principle. It would have been, and still would be, nice to get a refund. However, the reason I made any threat to her what-so-ever was because she refused to answer any of my DA messages. I waited for four months. When I finally sent my message in November, it basically said that I wanted art or a refund, and that if she didn't do it, I was going to be posting her name to communities and boards for this kind of thing. I asked her why she had hidden DA page messages, why she wouldn't reply to me, and why she was doing other commissions when she had commissions outstanding already. (Not in those exact words.)

At the time, I had on my hands (1) an artist I do not know, and only gained an interest in passing her table, (2) same said artist refusing to answer repeated messages, (3) four months since the convention have passed, and (4) she was obviously doing commissions for other people. That was the information I had to work with at the time. I didn't see her offer to send refunds via her journal, but it's largely irrelevant, since she's had my address since July. She has also had my FA and my email since July. I therefore made the conclusion that she, like many others, did not have any intention to fulfill her obligations. It happens all the time. You know it, I know it, and even if it does bring a little bit of temporary bad PR on me, I don't let myself get pissed on. Frankly, I think the only reason I did not get ignored and shuffled along until the end of time, was because I told her that I intended to call her out.

I also commissioned Sebastian Silverfang at the con, for like a $60 watercolor. He was great. As well as... let's see, 0ka, who I commissioned for not one, but two drawings. None of them were able to get me my stuff at the con, but all of them, with the exception of Candace, were great to commission. 0ka and I talked a few times online, and so did Sebastian and I. And that was -after- they had finished their obligations, when I was thanking them for doing their work so promptly. I have also commissioned radiotrash since, and that was a pleasant experience. She's even got some back burner gift-art for me somewhere, because I was cool to work with I guess.

So yeah, this isn't really about the money, this is about her professional ethic. The question becomes, does the community thing that keeping in contact with the people who have commissioned you, is part of personal ethics, or nay?

Frankly, anyone who thinks that it's -not- part of the responsibilities of a commissioned artist to keep in touch and speak with their commissioner on a professional basis, then I will be happy to have them turn down my commissions.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

So from "GIMME MY MONEY!" to "STOP TRYING TO GIVE ME MY MONEY!" ?

Pfft, keep the money then :/

[warsawkook.livejournal.com]

Unrelated:

YOUR ICON OH GOD
(Best story ever.)

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

Exactly xD There were several times I had to just sit back and be like... "Buh?" Haha

[dazen-cobalt.livejournal.com]

well you've tried.....I say KEEP THE MONEY! XD but of course know I am a miserible sod lol. anywho I you tried your best to get in contact with her. you've done your part so time to move on. me and many others are proof you're not a shady artist in the least. That is unless you actually live in the shade >: anywho sorry this happened to ya

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

xDDD

Yeah, I'm basically dropping this whole issue. I doubt she'll actually want the money...unless she takes another 3 months to get back to me xD

And you know what? I never actually thought about the fact that I've been commissioned by a lot of people over the years. So...I have tons of people who can vouch for me. Woot!

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Please refrain from name-calling.

[warsawkook.livejournal.com]

Keep the money and tell her to piss off. After the SECOND time she lectured you, you should have just shot her off a note saying simply "Address for refund or -whatever version of "Piss Off" you please-"

If you commission someone, regardless of what transpires: you don't turn around and insult their integrity when they're trying to do right by you. That's bullshit behavior at its finest and deserves to be retaliated to in the same manner (IMO anyway.)

(You sound like an upstanding artist who's nothing but polite so I don't really expect you'd tell someone off but... goddamn you definitely didn't deserve that. Not at all.)

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my last note to her was basically like- "Send me your info, or you don't get any money. Period." I don't like lingering drama xD

And I agree! If I were being a complete punk about it, then I could understand...but she jumped at me even before trying to work anything out. And because of that, I was on defense-mode from the beginning. That's not how you should be attempting to resolve issues with people you commission.

Wah x3 Thanks <3 I would never snap at somebody unless they do crap like this xD Then I get defensive and tell them how it is, cause I don't tolerate rude behavior when it's absolutely unnecessary.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Tell that twat you're keeping the money for having to deal with an unprofessional bitch. And if she tries to make a journal, let her. Invite people to talk to you so they can get a real clue.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Please refrain from name-calling.

[casteddreams.livejournal.com]

Well, since she seems to ignore your requests, I'd say keep the money. I wouldn't want to deal with an attitude like that myself, ick. :\

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's my plan. I'm just moving on with life xD Honestly? If she had have been polite about it all, I would have tried to actually finish her commission...but the way she approached me was so out of line. I was like NAH! You can have your money, cause I don't want to deal with this crap. I'm not motivated by lectures and degrading remarks. You've got the wrong artist!

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

She doesn't seem to want her money back...

Oh well. :)

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

Apparently not xD

[hobokitten.livejournal.com]

I'd keep the money. You tried several times to get the money back and were only met by snark and stubborness.
Maybe she will learn to treat artists better when they try to do right.

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

Yep. That's my plan. I'm washing my hands of this, cause I'm not about to let this linger on another 3 or so months. All of this could have been resolved in November 8|

I hope she learns how to treat artists better! If she keeps talking to people like that, she's gonna get slapped by somebody D: I get annoyed by people who lecture on the "rules" and "right way" to go about commissions. It's like they forget the basic rules of treating an artist with respect. There are two sides here!

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

She was extremely nice and enjoyable before all if this! Which is why I was very surprised/shocked when she sent such a mean note 8|

I don't appreciate attitude when it's unnecessary :/

[hollenheist.livejournal.com]

Looks like she did a 'Delete fucking everything' and left the internet, guess there's not much left to do. Sorry that you had to deal with someone so overly aggressive.

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

Yeah, she cleared everything out before blocking me xD So...I dunno.

And it's all good C: I'm going to be more cautious with commissions from now on. I suppose it's necessary to explain the whole process in detail and stuff 8| At least to avoid difficult people like this.

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

How...odd. Were your notes anything other than asking for a paypal address? How were they worded? Not saying you did anything to deserve it, but comments like that are rarely out of the blue O_o maybe she misunderstood?

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

She's the one who contacted me first. Her note was very rude and a lot of unnecessary things were said. I responded by explaining that she didn't have to take that tone with me and I'd gladly refund her commission if she gave me her Paypal info. That was in November. Like I said, I sent her the note on FA explaining that I wanted to resolve the issue and she replied twice. Her first reply was a quote from her original note copied and pasted over and over several times. That was it. The second note was her defending the reason her entire DA page is filled with hidden comments (she had mentioned something about how the two hidden comments on my page probably had something to do with me wronging other people...which it didn't. They were actually spam comments. Her page, however, has every comment hidden...and I mentioned that it seemed that she had more to hide than me), noting that it was to keep her page looking 'tidy'.

My last reply that went through (before she blocked me) was me explaining that she was being very childish and I was just trying to resolve the issue. I also mentioned that I didn't appreciate her trying to slander my name when I've never had any problems with commissioners before.

The final note I sent was short, sweet and simple. If she didn't provide her Paypal information, or confirm the address I had on file for her was still valid, I'd assume she didn't want her refund and would disregard the entire issue. Haven't heard from her since :/

[zatanna-333.livejournal.com]

If she will not let you refund her money, you should keep it.

That being said,I question bringing her up as a bad commissioner her, since the fault in the commission being successfully completed or not was not a fault of hers, but a fault of yours. Not saying without good reason, but generally if you post a commission gone bad on here, it would be because one side of party initiated the break down in the transaction, not because someone is displeased it went poorly.

"I will admit, firstly, that I am guilty of not keeping in good contact with my commissioners. I recognized that I was doing a poor job of keeping up with everyone, so I posted general updates on DA, but eventually decided that it was best to offer refunds to everyone who had been waiting a long time for their commissions."

Some people might not take that as a good faith effort to fulfill an obligation.

[zerocreature.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. This is exactly what happened. Not only did she not contact me personally in October, when she wrote her journal about refunds (I do not keep up with her personally), even though she had my messages sitting in her DA inbox, but the three messages that were sent to her in July, I never got any reply to! She was very rude to me, and in fact one of my messages says nothing but "Did you get my message?"

None of these messages were me exerting pressure on her. They were only "Here's my address" and "Did you get my messages". I never got one single word back from her until I started to tell her that she was going to be put on warning lists if she didn't send a refund or art within two months. At that point, it was November- four months after the convention.

She had my FA, my email, and my DA. And yet she never saw fit to contact me. She expected that I was keeping up with her social life, for some reason. I do not happen to care what her excuse is. I'm fine that she didn't complete it, if she wanted to send me a refund. What I am not fine with is the lack of common courtesy displayed on her part. She had my contact information for several different websites, and my mailing address. There is no excuse that she still had (and still has) my commission money in November if she decided to cancel it in October.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Uh, why do you keep DA noting zero when you have her email, and apparently zero doesn't use DA much?

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

I don't have her email. I've only had her DA name. And I mentioned that I only recently found her on FA, which is why I copied and pasted the note I had sent on DA and sent it to her FA account...which she later blocked me from.

I don't keep up with her page either, so I wasn't aware that she didn't use DA much. She was the one to contact me first and she noted me on DA...so I naturally assumed that I could reach her through notes on DA.

[byakko-tsuki.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear this.

I had nothing but a pleasant experience with this commissioner.

I took her commission the Saturday of the con, and was unable to finish or locate her for the rest of the con. I believe I finally got around to mailing it to her in August-- or September, as I was unemployed and doing some job searching. [ It could have been earlier, but I doubt this. I looked for a copy of our note exchanges on FA, and suppose I cleaned them out. :C ]

She was exceptionally patient, and easy to interact with. As long as I kept communication with this customer, there didn't even seem to be an issue.

Just my take on her, not on the situation at all.

Thanks.

_0ka / Ouka / Lady / BT

[kkitty23.livejournal.com]

As I mentioned in another comment somewhere, I thought Zero was very pleasant beforehand. The only thing that ever bothered me about all this was the fact that from my point of view I hadn't heard from her since the two notes I received in July (that contained her mailing info, etc), then I was suddenly being threatened. *shrugs*

Again, this post wasn't meant as an attack. Simply a warning/caution for other artists.

[airukitsu.livejournal.com]

Sounds like she needs to grow up :/