"Kitara"

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

this is sort of a re-post, allbeit a more complete story of my relationship with the individual "Kitara" from the beggining, the art portion will be mentioned near the bottom.

back in may of '09 i moved into an appartment with two other roomates, one of whom was Kitara. i lent money for the security deposit, rent, and utilities for mysself and the two roomates.
it was understood i was to be paid back, and i am in the process of getting copies of the checks, each of which was about 600 some $ at a time, and cashed by her.
it was witnessed by several friends, including her two new roomates. she has told me again and again she wont pay me back in person.

she was also a horrible roomate, as per the logs below, she calls herself "a drunken fool" i wouldn't personally go that far to call her that, but she did make life ver difficult.
this is a conversation the two of us had on why neil-myself and kurtsa-the other roomate, left.

iKitara (4:15:50 PM): Dude that's fine you guys felt that way
iKitara (4:15:56 PM): Seriously
iKitara (4:16:08 PM): I apologized for being a drunken fool
iKitara (4:16:16 PM): I don't know what more you want from me
iKitara (4:16:25 PM): To admit you make me fel like crap?
iKitara (4:16:32 PM): To admit I acted poorly?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:17:03 PM): i want you to admit you acted poorly on almost ALL accounts. i want you to break down into tears because that's what you did to me.
iKitara (4:17:09 PM): Just because not everyone I know thinks of me as a great friend is fine, because not everyone will be your bffff and I am ok with that
iKitara (4:17:30 PM): That's called being vindictive neil
iKitara (4:18:18 PM): And I won't because I don't feel I was wrong on all the accounts you speak of. I'm not going to cry, I'm going to break down, I'm just not that type of person
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:27:38 PM): i'm just saying that's what i want. you were horrible to me, you embarassed me, you left people steal shit from my room while i was gone, you blame me for your poor planning, you invite me to a party then yell at me for sticking around too long, you drove me to tears so often. you drove off two people who tried to live with you and be your friends.
iKitara (4:28:36 PM): Really if you and kurtsa both wanted me to leave you should have said so
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:29:30 PM): no, that's the point, we didn't want you to leave.
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:29:51 PM): you made us wish we left.
iKitara (4:30:24 PM): You did leave
iKitara (4:30:31 PM): Wish come true!
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:31:05 PM): um. no.
iKitara (4:31:18 PM): Yes
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:31:36 PM): it was a humiliating failure that made me cry several times.
iKitara (4:31:40 PM): I didn't let anyone steal your things
iKitara (4:31:51 PM): I didn't poorly plan
iKitara (4:32:02 PM): Because when someone says they're leaving the 20th
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:32:05 PM): spend money on booze and come up short on rent?
iKitara (4:32:08 PM): And leave 20 days before that
iKitara (4:32:16 PM): That's not poor planning
iKitara (4:32:22 PM): That is a uncontrollable
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:32:26 PM): i said i was leaving the first



the next conversation happened shortly after i moved out. basically, she got drunk then attacked me and everyone and the walls/door etc. with chocolate cake. it was her birthday party, and people usually go wild at those,
so i don't want to fault her for it but it upset me none-the-less.


neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:44:05 PM): i ended up getting shouted at, blamed for poor planning, cake throw at me while you had a petty arguement about the last day of rent or some shit.
iKitara (4:44:26 PM): Dude cake got everywhere
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:44:31 PM): drunk isn't an excuse.
iKitara (4:44:32 PM): Srsly
iKitara (4:44:41 PM): Cake got on everyone
iKitara (4:45:15 PM): Your not the same as fd n paradox, you can't comepare your relationship with me to theirs
iKitara (4:45:20 PM): Or with jen n rj
iKitara (4:47:32 PM): Honestly, all I can do is apologize for drunken actions it is your choice from there to accept it or reject it. I mean really I don't know what else I can do?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:52:49 PM): i'll only accpet it if you mean it and stop pulling drunken shit, i'm tired of it.
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:54:28 PM): it's always drunk this drunk that, with a disregard to general rules and my feelings. if you honestly want to be friends then show me.
iKitara (4:55:13 PM): :c look neil I really am sorry, if I didn't want you to be around I wouldn't have asked you to stay

i beleieved she really was sorry, but according to word-of-mouth she boasts about how she used me to friends, i will try to find proof of this.



below is a couple snippets of chat between the two of us of her asking for favors.

Saturday, June 20, 2009
Kitara (9:44:06 PM): :c could i ask a terrible favor of you?


Wednesday, November 11, 2009
iKitara (3:03:41 PM): can i ask you the biggest favor? :C




Here's a bit of the log where I mention the loaned money


neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:35:18 PM): either way i'm gone so you don't have to put up with me anymore
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:35:42 PM): i put in like 4 months rent so i gave you as much of a headstart on this whole appartment thing as i could
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:36:57 PM): but apparently i'm just a fucking moron v.v wtf
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:41:07 PM): and i waxed your car and drove you to work but i keep getting this vibe that all you do it put up with me
iKitara (11:41:26 PM): what dude
iKitara (11:41:29 PM): i fucking talk to you
iKitara (11:41:31 PM): hang out with you
iKitara (11:41:37 PM): ask you to come with me places
iKitara (11:41:56 PM): i wouldn't do that if I put up with you


Monday, July 13, 2009
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (6:03:19 PM): about what?
iKitara (6:03:26 PM): Your going to be here for a couple more weeks and then your gone
iKitara (6:03:34 PM): About the cat or anything
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (6:04:15 PM): this is one of the reasons i'm leaving
iKitara (6:04:45 PM): That's impossible because you were leaving before this
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (6:04:58 PM): i don't want to argue with you, i'm just letting you know, while i'm still here i care about every bit of it. and if you get kicked out that might affect you paying me back or whatever
iKitara (6:05:11 PM): And really I don't care that your leaving
iKitara (6:05:23 PM): Art says you can move in augusst 1st







She's not a bad person, but she's guilty as sin when it comes to anything to do with money.
she was months behind on her car payments and i warned her about it when she told me and she responded that they can't take your car W/O your permission.
One day she came home and it was gone.

Tuesday, August 04, 2009
iKitara (12:08:35 AM): and gatepass and car sticker please :o
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:08:15 PM): what happened to your car/
iKitara (2:08:16 PM): fuckkkkk my car is gone with the wind
iKitara (2:21:43 PM): repoooo
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:21:52 PM): they took it?
iKitara (2:21:55 PM): yes
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:03 PM): without telling you?
iKitara (2:22:05 PM): yes
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:13 PM): ....
iKitara (2:22:21 PM): and i need to go get kitty food and a snake lamp
iKitara (2:22:24 PM): ughh
iKitara (2:22:26 PM): i'm freaking out
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:33 PM): kitara
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:41 PM): didn't i say this might happen?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:48 PM): and what did you say to me? >.<
iKitara (2:22:53 PM): please neil i do not need this right now
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:58 PM): ok i wont
iKitara (2:23:06 PM): thankyou


Then, here's me offering to drive her to work...
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:22:38 PM): when you need to work, if you're willing to pay for gas, i will drive you should you choose to take me up on the offer
iKitara (11:22:55 PM): aww thanks<3
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:23:16 PM): <3
iKitara (11:23:52 PM): i think i'm going to talk to kurtsa and see if he may sell me his car


here we are, IN JULY talking about the details of the comission she owes me.

Thursday, July 23, 2009
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:28:12 PM): they must look rabid!
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:42:54 PM): and have him be doing somethign with his hands!
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:42:56 PM): something.....evil
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:42:59 PM): ;3
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:52:13 PM): c'mon...evil hands D:
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:52:22 PM): 2 feet im!
iKitara (11:52:27 PM): lol


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HERE'S THE KICKER, IN JANUARY SHE SAYS SHE'S STILL DOING THE COMISSION FOR ME. I GOT THE ONE SHE SAYS IS THE COMISSION IN DECEMBER. SOLID PROOF.

Monday, January 18, 2010
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:47:32 PM): still doing that other commission for me?
iKitara (11:47:49 PM): the hands one?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:47:54 PM): yer


here's a link to it. check when i submitted it.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3186803/
and in the attached pictures i tried to get ahold of her again. she then lies.
also pictured is a cap of the log.
Smoking gun.





attached are screencaps of her admitting she gave me the wrong piece of art. this other piece of art
was presented to me as a gift at the time, and has nothing to do with the commission when i received it.




EDIT: she also blocked me from her FA today and called it "harassment"
EDIT: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3186803/ original piece, not what i wanted, and i did not accept it as the piece i commissioned her for

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I approved this for now, however, I feel some information is missing and request you put it into your post.

How well has contact been kept since then? Have you asked her for progress lately? Have you requested a refund (of the cost of what you sent)?

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

i've contacted her many times about it, but she blocked me from her FA today. i asked for either art or the refund, she wont do either.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

That's a shame. I would edit that information into your post. More screenshots would help, but I recommend you put the entry under a cut for that.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

This artist puts a bad taste in my mouth, because of her responses.
"That's not my job. "

She seems very aloof, and not very into helping you figure out what you wanted to commission. :/ I would avoid her on those grounds, alone.

[baronyiffington.livejournal.com]

There's a lot of questions I have about this post.

You say you bought her "really expensive" paper as a trade for art, but this opens up even more questions. How expensive is "really expensive"? What was the art worth? What was the exact deal you made? What exactly were you asking her to draw? Did you agree on a set date?

You say that the other piece of art was a "gift", while the artist in question clearly believes that it wasn't. Was there any contact over this? What words were exchanged? Could you post logs of her admitting that it was indeed a "gift"? What IS the art she gave you? Gift or not, you should post it.

You are missing so, so, so much info, and it's very suspicious.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

-- how much did the paper you bought her cost?
-- do you have any other contact?

I remember kitara from the stolen tablet fiasco a while back. She seemed pretty level-headed, but I don't know how she is about commissions. Still, it sounds like she made you something and the commission was REALLY VAGUE from what you have here, and you decided it wasn't what you wanted?
There is not enough info here to figure out who's in the wrong.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Ya, I don't really like that part.

Majority of the time, people let me play around with their characters or ask for my input on what should be drawn.

If you really have no idea, could at least say it politely, asking them if they could try and find something since you just really don't have a clue.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Good god the "thats not my job" post would have made me back off. :\
No reason to be so sassy to someone who just bought you a gift. Damn.

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

no date was set, but the paper was worth 25-30$, we agreed it was equal in worth to the art. the piece she was to draw was a bust shot with my hands in view over my face with my eyes looking through. will go digging for more evidence.

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

I know, right?

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

She should really just do the art.
It aint that hard or OMG INSANE WOW for an artist to... you know.. DO ART.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

I worked in a clothing store for a while. I SPENT HOURS with customers, helping them to leave with exactly what they wanted.

[baronyiffington.livejournal.com]

Could you show evidence that it was agreed upon?

You say the piece she was to draw was "a bust shot with my hands in view over my face with my eyes looking through", but then in your own post, you show chat logs where you agree that the art is to be "me leaning back against a wall, hands in my pockets, with a smirk on my face". So... which is it?

[chaimeleon.livejournal.com]

"No reason to be so sassy to someone who just bought you a gift. Damn."

Er, as I have read it, it was a purchase as payment for a commission, not a gift. Also, I will state, it really ISN'T her job- she doesn't nessicarily need to be rude about it, but she kind of has a point. He has approached her for a commission, and upon finding that it was not something she felt she could do, expected her to come up with an idea? No thanks.

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

the log was from just before i decided on what i want, it's all i could find right this moment on the agreement, please be patient

[chaimeleon.livejournal.com]

I'll just point out, that isn't 'really expensive' unless you're talking one sheet. From what I gather, you purchased a whole pad worth of paper, which is average price, if not a little cheap for art paper, depending on the specs of said paper.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

No I know
but
think about it.
It just sounds really ignorant.

I didn't know that she couldn't do someone leaning against a wall :\

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

it could've been more, but it was the best watercolor paper the art store had.

[chaimeleon.livejournal.com]

As an artist, I will say this; I will sometimes make suggestions regarding media, colors, etc, when a customer is not familiar with the supplies I am using, but in no way should an artist ever be required to 'come up with an idea'. She was rude, yes, but my response to the question would have been a politer version of it. HE wants a peice, he should have some idea of what he would like.

[baronyiffington.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I'm seeing everyone saying that it was rude. I mean, sure, she could have put it nicer, but this was a COMMISSION. Not gift art, not personal art, but a commission. It isn't her job to decide what the commissioner wants.

[chaimeleon.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was rude, for sure, I don't disagree. I just want to make it clear that the op has stated it was purchased as payment, not as a gift. If it was purchased as a gift, and he was bugging her about art, she could tell him to gtfo if she so pleased. As it is, this is not the case.

As for the content of the commission; What she feels she can do is her own limitation as an artist, and personally, even if it is a simple thing, if she cannot do something to the specifications he wants and have it look good, she has all right to say "hey let's come up with a different thing".

[chaimeleon.livejournal.com]

I'm just correcting you. :) After all, if you are not an artist by trade that is not something you would nessicarily be aware of.

[chaimeleon.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I think the whole 'furry' community as a whole doesn't quite get the whole BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP concept. :/ Time and time again I see posters complaining that the artist wasn't nice enough or something, when the truth is that they were simply blunt.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Ya, I agree with that. The artist doesn't HAVE to come up with anything, it's just something I like to do if they let me ^^ But yes, she was a bit too rude about it.

[chaimeleon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, for some people it's a little bonus, but people need to learn to respect that not all artists are that way.