"Kitara"

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

this is sort of a re-post, allbeit a more complete story of my relationship with the individual "Kitara" from the beggining, the art portion will be mentioned near the bottom.

back in may of '09 i moved into an appartment with two other roomates, one of whom was Kitara. i lent money for the security deposit, rent, and utilities for mysself and the two roomates.
it was understood i was to be paid back, and i am in the process of getting copies of the checks, each of which was about 600 some $ at a time, and cashed by her.
it was witnessed by several friends, including her two new roomates. she has told me again and again she wont pay me back in person.

she was also a horrible roomate, as per the logs below, she calls herself "a drunken fool" i wouldn't personally go that far to call her that, but she did make life ver difficult.
this is a conversation the two of us had on why neil-myself and kurtsa-the other roomate, left.

iKitara (4:15:50 PM): Dude that's fine you guys felt that way
iKitara (4:15:56 PM): Seriously
iKitara (4:16:08 PM): I apologized for being a drunken fool
iKitara (4:16:16 PM): I don't know what more you want from me
iKitara (4:16:25 PM): To admit you make me fel like crap?
iKitara (4:16:32 PM): To admit I acted poorly?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:17:03 PM): i want you to admit you acted poorly on almost ALL accounts. i want you to break down into tears because that's what you did to me.
iKitara (4:17:09 PM): Just because not everyone I know thinks of me as a great friend is fine, because not everyone will be your bffff and I am ok with that
iKitara (4:17:30 PM): That's called being vindictive neil
iKitara (4:18:18 PM): And I won't because I don't feel I was wrong on all the accounts you speak of. I'm not going to cry, I'm going to break down, I'm just not that type of person
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:27:38 PM): i'm just saying that's what i want. you were horrible to me, you embarassed me, you left people steal shit from my room while i was gone, you blame me for your poor planning, you invite me to a party then yell at me for sticking around too long, you drove me to tears so often. you drove off two people who tried to live with you and be your friends.
iKitara (4:28:36 PM): Really if you and kurtsa both wanted me to leave you should have said so
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:29:30 PM): no, that's the point, we didn't want you to leave.
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:29:51 PM): you made us wish we left.
iKitara (4:30:24 PM): You did leave
iKitara (4:30:31 PM): Wish come true!
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:31:05 PM): um. no.
iKitara (4:31:18 PM): Yes
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:31:36 PM): it was a humiliating failure that made me cry several times.
iKitara (4:31:40 PM): I didn't let anyone steal your things
iKitara (4:31:51 PM): I didn't poorly plan
iKitara (4:32:02 PM): Because when someone says they're leaving the 20th
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:32:05 PM): spend money on booze and come up short on rent?
iKitara (4:32:08 PM): And leave 20 days before that
iKitara (4:32:16 PM): That's not poor planning
iKitara (4:32:22 PM): That is a uncontrollable
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:32:26 PM): i said i was leaving the first



the next conversation happened shortly after i moved out. basically, she got drunk then attacked me and everyone and the walls/door etc. with chocolate cake. it was her birthday party, and people usually go wild at those,
so i don't want to fault her for it but it upset me none-the-less.


neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:44:05 PM): i ended up getting shouted at, blamed for poor planning, cake throw at me while you had a petty arguement about the last day of rent or some shit.
iKitara (4:44:26 PM): Dude cake got everywhere
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:44:31 PM): drunk isn't an excuse.
iKitara (4:44:32 PM): Srsly
iKitara (4:44:41 PM): Cake got on everyone
iKitara (4:45:15 PM): Your not the same as fd n paradox, you can't comepare your relationship with me to theirs
iKitara (4:45:20 PM): Or with jen n rj
iKitara (4:47:32 PM): Honestly, all I can do is apologize for drunken actions it is your choice from there to accept it or reject it. I mean really I don't know what else I can do?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:52:49 PM): i'll only accpet it if you mean it and stop pulling drunken shit, i'm tired of it.
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (4:54:28 PM): it's always drunk this drunk that, with a disregard to general rules and my feelings. if you honestly want to be friends then show me.
iKitara (4:55:13 PM): :c look neil I really am sorry, if I didn't want you to be around I wouldn't have asked you to stay

i beleieved she really was sorry, but according to word-of-mouth she boasts about how she used me to friends, i will try to find proof of this.



below is a couple snippets of chat between the two of us of her asking for favors.

Saturday, June 20, 2009
Kitara (9:44:06 PM): :c could i ask a terrible favor of you?


Wednesday, November 11, 2009
iKitara (3:03:41 PM): can i ask you the biggest favor? :C




Here's a bit of the log where I mention the loaned money


neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:35:18 PM): either way i'm gone so you don't have to put up with me anymore
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:35:42 PM): i put in like 4 months rent so i gave you as much of a headstart on this whole appartment thing as i could
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:36:57 PM): but apparently i'm just a fucking moron v.v wtf
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:41:07 PM): and i waxed your car and drove you to work but i keep getting this vibe that all you do it put up with me
iKitara (11:41:26 PM): what dude
iKitara (11:41:29 PM): i fucking talk to you
iKitara (11:41:31 PM): hang out with you
iKitara (11:41:37 PM): ask you to come with me places
iKitara (11:41:56 PM): i wouldn't do that if I put up with you


Monday, July 13, 2009
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (6:03:19 PM): about what?
iKitara (6:03:26 PM): Your going to be here for a couple more weeks and then your gone
iKitara (6:03:34 PM): About the cat or anything
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (6:04:15 PM): this is one of the reasons i'm leaving
iKitara (6:04:45 PM): That's impossible because you were leaving before this
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (6:04:58 PM): i don't want to argue with you, i'm just letting you know, while i'm still here i care about every bit of it. and if you get kicked out that might affect you paying me back or whatever
iKitara (6:05:11 PM): And really I don't care that your leaving
iKitara (6:05:23 PM): Art says you can move in augusst 1st







She's not a bad person, but she's guilty as sin when it comes to anything to do with money.
she was months behind on her car payments and i warned her about it when she told me and she responded that they can't take your car W/O your permission.
One day she came home and it was gone.

Tuesday, August 04, 2009
iKitara (12:08:35 AM): and gatepass and car sticker please :o
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:08:15 PM): what happened to your car/
iKitara (2:08:16 PM): fuckkkkk my car is gone with the wind
iKitara (2:21:43 PM): repoooo
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:21:52 PM): they took it?
iKitara (2:21:55 PM): yes
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:03 PM): without telling you?
iKitara (2:22:05 PM): yes
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:13 PM): ....
iKitara (2:22:21 PM): and i need to go get kitty food and a snake lamp
iKitara (2:22:24 PM): ughh
iKitara (2:22:26 PM): i'm freaking out
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:33 PM): kitara
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:41 PM): didn't i say this might happen?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:48 PM): and what did you say to me? >.<
iKitara (2:22:53 PM): please neil i do not need this right now
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (2:22:58 PM): ok i wont
iKitara (2:23:06 PM): thankyou


Then, here's me offering to drive her to work...
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:22:38 PM): when you need to work, if you're willing to pay for gas, i will drive you should you choose to take me up on the offer
iKitara (11:22:55 PM): aww thanks<3
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:23:16 PM): <3
iKitara (11:23:52 PM): i think i'm going to talk to kurtsa and see if he may sell me his car


here we are, IN JULY talking about the details of the comission she owes me.

Thursday, July 23, 2009
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:28:12 PM): they must look rabid!
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:42:54 PM): and have him be doing somethign with his hands!
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:42:56 PM): something.....evil
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:42:59 PM): ;3
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:52:13 PM): c'mon...evil hands D:
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:52:22 PM): 2 feet im!
iKitara (11:52:27 PM): lol


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HERE'S THE KICKER, IN JANUARY SHE SAYS SHE'S STILL DOING THE COMISSION FOR ME. I GOT THE ONE SHE SAYS IS THE COMISSION IN DECEMBER. SOLID PROOF.

Monday, January 18, 2010
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:47:32 PM): still doing that other commission for me?
iKitara (11:47:49 PM): the hands one?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:47:54 PM): yer


here's a link to it. check when i submitted it.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3186803/
and in the attached pictures i tried to get ahold of her again. she then lies.
also pictured is a cap of the log.
Smoking gun.





attached are screencaps of her admitting she gave me the wrong piece of art. this other piece of art
was presented to me as a gift at the time, and has nothing to do with the commission when i received it.




EDIT: she also blocked me from her FA today and called it "harassment"
EDIT: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3186803/ original piece, not what i wanted, and i did not accept it as the piece i commissioned her for

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I approved this for now, however, I feel some information is missing and request you put it into your post.

How well has contact been kept since then? Have you asked her for progress lately? Have you requested a refund (of the cost of what you sent)?

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

i've contacted her many times about it, but she blocked me from her FA today. i asked for either art or the refund, she wont do either.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

This artist puts a bad taste in my mouth, because of her responses.
"That's not my job. "

She seems very aloof, and not very into helping you figure out what you wanted to commission. :/ I would avoid her on those grounds, alone.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Ya, I don't really like that part.

Majority of the time, people let me play around with their characters or ask for my input on what should be drawn.

If you really have no idea, could at least say it politely, asking them if they could try and find something since you just really don't have a clue.

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

Actually, on this point, I agree with the artist. It's not the job of the artist to decide what the client wants. There's a difference between giving someone 'artist freedom' and not having a clue what you want. It drives me nuts when someone asks me for a commission, then hems and haws about what they want it of.

[baronyiffington.livejournal.com]

There's a lot of questions I have about this post.

You say you bought her "really expensive" paper as a trade for art, but this opens up even more questions. How expensive is "really expensive"? What was the art worth? What was the exact deal you made? What exactly were you asking her to draw? Did you agree on a set date?

You say that the other piece of art was a "gift", while the artist in question clearly believes that it wasn't. Was there any contact over this? What words were exchanged? Could you post logs of her admitting that it was indeed a "gift"? What IS the art she gave you? Gift or not, you should post it.

You are missing so, so, so much info, and it's very suspicious.

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

no date was set, but the paper was worth 25-30$, we agreed it was equal in worth to the art. the piece she was to draw was a bust shot with my hands in view over my face with my eyes looking through. will go digging for more evidence.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

-- how much did the paper you bought her cost?
-- do you have any other contact?

I remember kitara from the stolen tablet fiasco a while back. She seemed pretty level-headed, but I don't know how she is about commissions. Still, it sounds like she made you something and the commission was REALLY VAGUE from what you have here, and you decided it wasn't what you wanted?
There is not enough info here to figure out who's in the wrong.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Good god the "thats not my job" post would have made me back off. :\
No reason to be so sassy to someone who just bought you a gift. Damn.

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

I know, right?

[razzmatazzmay.livejournal.com]

As far as I know, the artist and commissioner used to be friends/room mates for awhile, so I am wondering if this was an arrangement that eventually went sour as the friendship did? That doesn't excuse someone from not rendering services, but I'm going to have to agree there is a lot of missing info here.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

This actually puts some insight into this enigmatic post that I think the OP could have mentioned...

[armaina.livejournal.com]

I also feel like something is missing here. Do you have any other history of contact or emails that lead up to this. Also, I'd like to know what this gift art that is being referred to, along with the cost, or at least estimated cost, of the Watercolor Paper tablet and what was agreed upon in regards to the art (colored, not color, traditional, digital, what) Because you haven't listed any of that information.

Even if you're 'in the right' in this matter, the fact that you're leaving s many details out can come across as very shady.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

So, from what I'm guessing is that Kitara was unable to do the pose you specified, so she did you something else anyway and is saying it's proper payment?

I'm sorry, no.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

That's what I gathered.

[msmanuscript.livejournal.com]

I don't quite understand. I read the post, and all the comments (At time of posting, there are 47.) Here's what I gathered:
+ You bought a pad of paper as payment for a commission.
+ Some time later, you asked about the commission, and was told that it wasn't their job to come up with a pose.
+ You thought of a pose. Then changed your mind. (I am not sure if they were ever notified of this change, though, as it's not in your chatlogs.)
+ You were given a badge, which you consider a gift because it wasn't in the pose you wanted.
+ The artist believes that the image they gave you was the commission.
+ You back and forthed, none of which is pictured here, so we have to take your word on it.
+ You were blocked for harassment.

So, first, what is your beware? Second, more evidence, please. Third, if the image was a gift, what did you say to the artist to make them think that you are harassing them? And what was THEIR description on the badge image?

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

the harassment part, i have no idea. she does owe me a ton of money i lent her. that might be it.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

Frankly, you're making yourself out to be the person that people don't want to deal with, I'll bet. I sure wouldn't want to if I did commissions.

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

alright, i am rewriting it and will repost it when i am finished. thank you for your level-headed feedback.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

I think there needs to be some transparency on your relationship to the artist, or former one.
Right now this looks like you are trying to bring your grudge wank out on a popular furry artist community, but sorry this is not furry roommate_beware. If she does owe you money and you are just looking for a reason to bring her up here so we will all find out on it, I think you'll find people on this community are not going to be receptive to your story or your attempted "beware"

[baronyiffington.livejournal.com]

This.

If you (the OP, I mean) want to bring up furry room-mate stories, the LJ community furrydrama_2 eats those right up. But be warned, they're going to want evidence just as much as we do.

[corvus-animus.livejournal.com]

HERE'S THE KICKER, IN JANUARY SHE SAYS SHE'S STILL DOING THE COMISSION FOR ME. I GOT THE ONE SHE SAYS IS THE COMISSION IN DECEMBER. SOLID PROOF.

Monday, January 18, 2010
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:47:32 PM): still doing that other commission for me?
iKitara (11:47:49 PM): the hands one?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:47:54 PM): yer


I'm confused...she never said she was. Even your screen cap...she never actually responded "yes". YOU said, "yer".

Please, instead of editing this post, retype a post with a cohesive story, as if to an audience that didn't read ANY of the comments on this post.

[baronyiffington.livejournal.com]

"neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:47:32 PM): still doing that other commission for me?
iKitara (11:47:49 PM): the hands one?
neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:47:54 PM): yer"

YOU said yes, NOT her. Nowhere does she say that she would continue that commission.

The rest is extremely rambly. Honestly, none of it makes sense nor does it prove anything you said. Where does she say that the money would be repaid? Where does it show you GAVE her money? All we have is this:

"neilwhitesell@hotmail.com (11:35:42 PM): i put in like 4 months rent so i gave you as much of a headstart on this whole appartment thing as i could"

Honestly, it sounds like you GAVE her the money as a present. You say that it was for a "headstart". Like... what? None of this makes sense.

write it off as a big lose and a big time learning expreince

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

She sounds like a person I know...A person I'd rather not having anything to do with too, she was a user and abuser. She never paid any of the money she owed people which would have been about $5000AUD Overall...and that's being nice. You sound like a lovely person but kinda more so a doormat, you have to try and be assertive and don't take no and excuses for an answer.


Either way knowing these types of people it's best if you have nothing to do with them =\...It sucks but I don't see you getting your money back or the commission that you had asked for.

A big lose and an experience you probably will not likely forget.

[stitchex.livejournal.com]

I think this is actually my first AB posting! Which makes me shocked and yet love all of my commissioners who have been overly freaking patient with me. This is probably the only response I'm going to put up and I'll cross post it for ab and fd2.

:) Guys I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a workaholic I work 50-60 hour weeks and any free time I have left is spent with my gorgeous dogs at a park or in training classes. I got drunk at my first birthday party in years and not to mention one that wasn't controlled by parents. My room mates and I had a cake fight, really wasn't as bad as it seems.

Secondly and most importantly, Neil. I told you after attempting multiple times to do this awkward bust hands covering face thing I wasn't comfortable with it and if it was ok that I'd rather do a simpler bust badge. I have logs to back this up (conveniently for you my laptop crashed about a week ago and I can't cp them here right now). I did say that when I got free time I would go back to the original request and try to complete it as a gift. I never said you would get 2 commissions for the price of one. I never promised anything to you. I simply told you I would try, because what you asked for me as I told you multiple times was outside of my artistic comfort zone. I'm not an amazing artist, and I can't just draw everything and anything, hands are my weakest point, and I'm really not that great with watercolor. So you put me in a position where I had to put my 2 biggest weaknesses together and over come them, and I just was never happy with the end result. If you want art that looks like crap, then that's fine I still have one of the pathetic attempts I made that you can have. Also, the paper barely cost $20 and I spent roughly about 3 sheets on trying to do art for you alone and there's only 20 sheets in the pad. Which personally I feel is a more then just price for a traditionally created full watercolor badge. It may not have been to your specifications, but I had gone over that with you repeatedly. If you like I'm more then willing to pay you for the paper.

As for the last issue which comes down to the money I owe you, I enjoy how you've only listed the money you have ever lent me, but not any of the bills I have covered for you in order to slowly pay you back for what you had originally offered as just a helping start with no need for payback and changed your mind about, which it's your money and choose to do with it what you want. Or how you told us you were moving out in 3 months and then moved early right before rent was due and we had to struggle to get money put together last minute? I'm not one for bringing private issues so forward so I won't go on. But I think you're just mad because I've told you to stop talking to me and to stop contacting me. After you horribly betrayed all of us at fwa I want nothing to do with you and this is a pathetic attempt at getting my attention. You always im'd me, when I told you to please forget me as a friend, then you started texting me and I had to ask you to lose my phone number I just do not want to associate with someone who backstabs and betrays people left and right as you do. I have nothing to gain from a friendship where there is no trust. So again, just leave me alone already dude.

[sailsior.livejournal.com]

For the price of one? the "first" picture was a gift, you said that to me when I got it. I also did not list how much rent you owe me, as I am however aware of your efforts to help with the bills the last month, now that i think about it. You lied to me all the time, as I did to you when I first met you, I thought we were friends when we both apologized to each other. you however owe me money for rent. Not paying back a loan is stealing and lying in itself.

[lobotomysoup.livejournal.com]

I think this just needs to get discredited now. He didn't get the answer he wanted to so he posted it to furdrama?


:/

[ducttapeninja.livejournal.com]

^This.

The minute the supposed "victim" jumps over to FD_2 to get the asspats and support he couldn't get here... Yeah, he's just making himself look worse.

[fyphfoko.livejournal.com]

i'm confused by the whole issue. it looks like a combination of a personal relationship goen wrong, which belongs here not, and a reiteration of the last post, more or less. thats just how i read it, and mind you i've just had one of those "i can't sleep, at all" nights

but, i just, at teh very least its an unusual post, no?


op, i would just leave her be at this point. have you ever gone to see a movie and been bitterly disapointed? or anything like that. well, commissions can go taht way too. you pretty much pay'd your money and took your choice. your not happy with the result, don't commission her again

i can't really advise you on 90% of the post, except to say try not to eb too clingy. i would stop thinking about her tbh, move on and all that


unless i have the wrong end of this unexpectedly confusing stick

Moderator Here

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

Let's be careful about personal attacks here. No one is in violation but some of these comments are skirting it.

Thank you-
Kath

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Anything new on this?