Not a warning, but an idea

[xodiac.livejournal.com]

I was just browsing through the past posts in the community, and a thought occurred to me: wouldn't it be a lot easier to have a webpage that simply lists the artists and commissioners people have complained about? It'd be an easy place to just stop and check before you pay for or accept that commission. Just go to the page, and hey, Starfinder's there! Woah, 18 complaints, better not commission her! Certainly would be easier than browsing through the community.

Is anyone willing to make/host such a page? I could probably make it, though it would look basic - my HTML skills are not geared towards the flashy, so if someone else wants to that'd be cool. But someone would still need to host it.

Comments

[sepp.livejournal.com]

personally, I think that's friggin genious. I'll try to work something out with my friend who hosts my website... though I don't know if he'll allow it, since we have limited space...


here's hoping :3

[apoidea.livejournal.com]

Hosts might not want to be sued over it

[caelum.livejournal.com]

Yeah, could get dicey. Someone could complain about an artist just to get back at them for some imagined insult (they wouldn't do porn/free art) and then the innocent artist has a black mark on their name. Not to mention the way rumors fly around the art circles online. Flame wars, threats, trolls... The capacity for abuse is staggering if there wasn't some check against it. You'd have to have some way to verify that a complaint about an artist/commissioner was true.

[spirit86.livejournal.com]

yeah, I've had that problem before. Someone had commissioned me, would approve the sketches, wait for it to be colored, then complain about the linework. After redoing it about five times I told him I didn't have the time to do it again and he complained about me to nearly everyone, telling them it took me months for him to see a single sketch and that I had never completed anything, but kept the money. Granted, he wasn't stupid enough to post the complaint on here, but there was still a complaint. If it HAD been posted on here, I would HATE to see my name on that nifty little list, and honestly - I would personally consider sueing if my name were not taken down, and for any lost buisness because of it.

This is a VERY risky idea, and I don't think it would be at all wise.

[tyreenya.livejournal.com]

*koffkoffnautakoff*?

I think though that maybe comments can still be left through this community and filtered. That way stupid stuff like "ZOMG, they wouldn't draw free porn" etc would be added. So complaint goes here, is considered, then can be added to the site.

Perhaps we should also have how great artists are too? Like a rating... 10 stars (good) to 10 something elses (omg, wretched, don't buy from them... ie Starfinder.) That way someone can look up how good an artist is too. not just how bad.

All in all, I think its a good idea. I don't think they could be sued..it is afterall a freedom of opinion?

[auradeva.livejournal.com]

Heh, sounds like the scam Canis Claxis was doing to get free art.

Usually if someone complains about someone in this community without good reason other artists will catch on and defend the person being attacked.

I don't think anyone should get put on the website unless they complain about themselves or get complaints from more than one person.

[wuffit.livejournal.com]

I'd have to agree with you there. :-\


For more Jump to:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/artists_beware/39704.html?thread=402456#t402456

[kaided.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think it's a great idea. Not much of a webdesigner myself, but I do agree that you should go on with this.

[caelum.livejournal.com]

On the flip side, maybe a similar list of artists/commissioners who are awesome and should get recognition for being so? (For instance, I recently commissioned an artist to do a full-body computer-colored with background peice and she cranks out a lovely thing in like a day, which to me, miss slo-mo artist, is mindblowing.)

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

on one end its a great idea, but on the other I agree its a bit risky in that I could totally see myself be listed on there for something minor, like not answering an e-mail right away because I went on a trip. I consider myself a very upstanding commissionee, but often times people would rather complain behind someone's back than go directly to the source.

[spirit86.livejournal.com]

Seriously... or for taking too long when your life gets hectic and someone not being able to understand that artists are artists, not art machines...

I know I all ready said this in another reply, but I really think this would be a bad idea.

[ironbadger.livejournal.com]

Probably a good idea-
But it might be hard to manage for the reason Apoidea has mentioned..

Too bad its not possible to set up an escrow service for commission payments for artists.
Customers pay money into some sort of account for commissions, the terms of the commission are listed and binding on both parties, and the money is only paid out after the art is sent to the customer, a scan posted and the shipping confirmation number is posted and confirmed as delivered.

It would probably have tons of problems though.

It would probably have to be set up as some sort of actual business, and complaints between the artist and commissioner might be tough to arbitrate.


But it WOULD cut out most of the scamming that has been going on- both in terms of artists never delivering art, and people who "commission" an artist but have no intention of ever paying by demanding the art first and getting a scan.

Hmm...

Maybe a voluntary ratings board?
The artists and commissioners would have to sign a terms of service, and get their name posted with a history of their past dealings from the people they have dealt with?

Of course, thats pretty much what feedback ratings on auction sites are already supposed to do, so maybe its not a practical idea?

-Badger-

[redregon.livejournal.com]

kinda like a middleman, or a union representative for the fandom's artists?

[furrysantuary.livejournal.com]

It would be a good idea if it DIDN'T have real names or have to do with that person making money. Sueing would be very easy because the page would be concidered spreading Libel and the only way to prove it's nt is to prove this person is doing bad business.

I used to run a webpage that wanred people about others posing as celebrities. The only reason I believe I didn't get sued was because the "posers" were all too young to even try, or care.

[xodiac.livejournal.com]

I was going to post a fairly long reply that elaborated and specified what I had in mind for this, but then I decided it'd be easier to just make the thing. So if you go to http://xodiac.fo.cx/temp/abdata.html you'll see the bare-bones version of this. If anyone wants to make it look nicer, feel free. :)

[sabarika.livejournal.com]

It looks nice but beware of libel cases.. webhosts won't want to deal with people whose names are on there for something that has no proof to back it up except written word and experiences that aren't documented.

[redregon.livejournal.com]

it is a good idea, though i would highly suggest that there be some sort of op kinda dealie with someone that has NO bias for anyone...

i could see this turn into a really HUGE drama nugget given the wrong circumstances...

[crssafox.livejournal.com]

Here's a suggestion.... use the memories. Then people can search this journal for any posts (good OR bad) about any person. Then you just put the person's name, and posts related to that individual.

[minimalismo.livejournal.com]

agreed

[flyingfluff.livejournal.com]

I was just about to suggest that.

[uniformgrey.livejournal.com]

On a crafting community that I belong to, they have a Google search just for their community to search through the entries.

This might be a better idea, because if someone types in for example John Smith, they not only get the bad news from the initial poster, but other views on said person as well. That way its not just a quoting of "John Smith sucks" by one person.

This would eliminate the purpose of a webpage and would give the worried commisioner a broader view.

[minimalismo.livejournal.com]

i dont like the idea at all. its like making a website to list mean friends or something.... blah. i agree with crssafox - use livejournal's memories function.

This is just enough. Artists_Beware is great.

[wuffit.livejournal.com]

I agree, the community existing already gets abused every now and then, and to have a permanent, 'black list' that could eventually get into the hundreds would be near impossible to fix.

Already Jace must have responded to the numerous comments because his little raze was removed. That's a GOOD thing. It means if an artist or commissioner fixes the problem, this mess can GO AWAY. I think if someone screws up, they can apologise, and make things right, and shouldn't be punished forever.

Re: This is just enough. Artists_Beware is great.

[wuffit.livejournal.com]

I need to rephrase that, 'punish' is not a good word. Understanding consequences for one's action is a better one. But it really means about the same thing, I chose the other word because it was shorter and had a bit of a twang to it. :-P

[wuffit.livejournal.com]

And on the other hand, is this is out of neccesity, or convenience? If you take less than a minute to decide to commission someone or do art for someone, that may be the problem. Take a little more time, get to know the person, understand that this isn't a money or art machine.

The relationship between the artist and the art appreciator should be a little bit more intimate. I used to feel that getting paid for art was bit like prostitution, but not if you don't treat it like that. It's not always about who gets what. Because I love making art and it gives me a good feeling to try a new technique, or reinvent an old one. I like to see my clients happy and I know they appreciate the effort. I also choose them wisely, my clients are people who I trust, took time to get to know.

Now maybe the day will come, when I put away my childish things, and accept the responsibilities of owning a studio, or a business. Then I may lose the personal touch. But in the meantime, time is on my side.

[aislynn85.livejournal.com]

Libel cases can be originated from this livejournal community as well, not only from a webpage. In that case I'd rather have a super fast way to look someone up than try and sift through the entries day-by-day to find someone.

_However_, like with that sample website, a link was produced under each infraction/complaint/whatever that led back to the post. Done in that manner it provides some measure to produce forth some proof as to the accusation.

Website or LJ, open to the same suits in court.

My $0.02. =")

[xodiac.livejournal.com]

I honestly can't tell if you mean, ultimately, that the page concept is fine as it is shown or if you think this is a bad idea.

[aislynn85.livejournal.com]

I dont mind the page, I find it very helpful in that format. =")

I'm not sure how to use memories tho.

I was merely pointing out to others who think LJ grants them immunity, that it honestly doesnt. Their just as open to be sued this way as a webpage is.