Using Paypal for payments?

[astraldescent.livejournal.com]

Okay, newish to this comm and asking for advice, since the original convo that confused me was found here. If you click the "company-Paypal" tag you'll see the one I am talking about.

I've recently begun taking commissions, and I have heard here and elsewhere that proper protocol for accepting payments is to ask the commissioner to use the payment owed option. However in the convo, it seems using that 'too much' can get your account locked, and other people also disagreed with it for some arbitrary reasons I can't discern?

Now, I don't often send payments through paypal myself and when I do there is an invoice so I don't have to really do much except click pay, but I am wondering, am I doing the right thing here? How should I recommend my commissioners send their payments to me if not via the Payment Owed option?

I know that you can NOT ask for payments via the gift option, and as far as I know the Payment Owed option is the only way to ensure that that person would have the ability to file a claim, which I hope never happens, but I want people to have the option to if they feel its necessary.

So, what is the best way to recommend your commissioners send money to you when using Paypal? I don't really care about fees since all my commission money is extra money not bill money as it is for some people, so that is not too much of a concern as long as they don't take like $5 a payment or something.

Once again: I do not care about the fees. I am not trying to get people to cover the fees. I don't know how people started thinking I am. All I want to know is what to recommend they do when they send money to me, and is what I am doing right now, asking them to send it as payment owed, okay.

Comments

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

I've never heard that using "Payment Owed" too much is a bad thing. I've heard that about the GIFT option, however. I've never seen any official confirmation of this.

[cesarin.livejournal.com]

gift = doesn't let you ask for your money back if trouble happens.
also It is blocked in certain countries now (my own included).

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know. Mexico. A buddy of mine tried to send me some money via PP so I could buy him something, and they wouldn't let me get a gift.

Luckily I have an American account. Gifts all the way. :p

[cesarin.livejournal.com]

I suppose many people starting to use that trick to go around the bank protections.

Mexican banks loves to ripoff its customers in ways only the ruling party could make it worse. :P

[alexds1.livejournal.com]

I've taken a ton of commissions and donations, and have never had any issues with Paypal. The two times in which I've heard a Paypal account was suspended and locked was when the user was accepting pre-order money from customers without having a product yet. In both cases, neither dispute has been resolved despite a lot of talking to Paypal and even providing direct proof that every preorder item had been delivered...

Basically, don't ever do preorders.

[kyrahlynn.livejournal.com]

One of those situations would be the HINABN books last May, right? I feel so bad that I haven't been able to get the payment for those books to Tessa yet :(

[alexds1.livejournal.com]

Yeah, with no result despite her doing such a good job keeping records and showing receipts... I've heard a few similar horror stories from people who have had thousands of dollars basically stolen by Paypal. Even George R R Martin lost a couple hundred to them two years ago.

[kyrahlynn.livejournal.com]

Aw man, Paypal still hasn't sorted it out? Guess I'll shoot Tessa an email to see if I can send her a check. I don't like having merchandise in my possession I haven't paid for yet :/

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Pretty much, you don't used anything under the "personal options". "Gift" being the worst one. I'm pretty sure all of those take off fees on the artist, or take fees off completely.

When I tell people my paypal, I tell them "Please do not send it as a gift or any personal options". That way they used things like "goods" and "services".

Some people don't quite listen, but it ensures most do and makes sure you don't get in trouble.

[astraldescent.livejournal.com]

So is it alright to specifically ask them to use "Payment Owed"? cause I dunno what tab that is under, its been over three months since I sent money on paypal without an invoice.

[silverfalln.livejournal.com]

Paypal fees are, honestly, very small. They're something like $3.30 for a $100 payment. And its againt TOS to take a personal payment for a product, or to charge a customer. It's safest to just accept the fees, or slightly raise your prices across the board, for any payment type accepted.

[jurann.livejournal.com]

Asking buyers to use Personal Payments or asking them to pay the Paypal fees is not only against the Paypal TOS, but they have been cracking down on that a lot lately. Which means seizing your funds and your account and not giving the funds in your account back to you if they determine you violated the TOS. And like silverfalln said above, the fees are very small, esp when you compare them to standard mercantile account (credit/debit card) fees which are from 4.25% to 7.5% per transaction. Either eat the fees or charge slightly more for your work to compensate, and make sure your buyers don't use Personal Payment options when sending you money for goods or services (commissions).

[astraldescent.livejournal.com]

I never said I was asking them to do other things, in fact I said I wasn't concerned about paying fees o.O
I just was wondering what option to recommend them to use when they send money to me. I don't know if Payment Owed is under personal or not.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

This is the 'Send Money' tab of PayPal. As you see there are two smaller tabs below where you classify what the payment is.

There's zero need to use the Personal tab. Tell your customers this.

Goods and/or Services are the only options you should be asking them to use.

Payment Owed is something that would most likely be under 'Request Money' as in you're sending out an invoice THROUGH PayPal.

[astraldescent.livejournal.com]

Ohhhhhh, okay
I'll just say to not use the personal tab then. that clears things up for me.
Sorry x_x; I never really USE paypal except for like.. invoices and ebay purchases, online checkout etc.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

A golden rule to abide by is 'to use it is to know it throughly'. I suggest you log into your PayPal account and just explore it, also becoming fully aware of their rules and policies. Protect yourself and your customer base. Don't get caught with your proverbial pants down.

[astraldescent.livejournal.com]

I will, I guess for some reason I thought that in order to see that stuff I'd have to actually start a transaction with someone. I always read TOS so I am pretty good on those though, I'll look through them again anyways.

Thank you for the help x3

[mandyseley.livejournal.com]

For reference, I always ask my customers to use the "goods" option.

Either will work, but "services" implies they're paying for you to render some kind of service and "goods" implies they're paying for an item or object. Since a commission is focused on delivering a finished product (a good), using the "goods" option just seems the most logical. :3

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I guess I sort of thought of a commission as a "service" (since they are paying you to create something), especially if you're only making a digital copy...

[mandyseley.livejournal.com]

In my mind, digital or not, a commission is still a specific, tangible deliverable that is being purchased. A service, to me, sounds more like your internet service, a repairman, or a plumber - you're paying ONLY for their time, and you don't have any new deliverables from them when they're done.

Even PayPal's definitions are vague, so I'm sure either would be considered a legitimate label for the payment. Just for the sake of consistency, though, I'd say it might be a good idea to pick one or the other and stick with it.

[jurann.livejournal.com]

The only ACTUAL difference between the two both to Paypal and to sellers is that by default "Goods" includes the buyer's address whereas "Services" does not. However, selecting Goods you can still choose not to provide an address, and you can also do Services and supply an address as well. It just changes the default behavior, that's all.

[silverfalln.livejournal.com]

Do you mind if I used this on my site's commission page revamp?

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

All I ask is you place it on your own hosting portion.

[silverfalln.livejournal.com]

Certainly!

Thank you so much. :)

[damurrnigs.livejournal.com]

i'm gonna use examples in my explanation here to make it as clear and easy to understand for anybody else who might wonder; screwing up with paypal can have pretty bad and unwanted consequences of many degrees, let's spare ourselves that, shall we? :)

nothing in the "personal" tab gives you any buyer's protection, as they are not business-oriented options.

let's say you go to the reataurant with a friend one day. oops, you don't have any cash on you, turns out they don't take plastic. friend covers your bill for you, and immediately, you get to a computer and transfer him the amount for the bill from your paypal to his.

admittedly, our two friends here are geeks who make purchases online and both have a paypal. ;)

but see, this example here is a "Payment Owed". the money you're sending him isn't a gift, nor for a product or service you're getting from him. you're just clearing a debt!

the second there is an exchange of goods or services for your money, stick to the appropriate "Business" section. not only is it the proper thing to do according to the big book of paypal's rules, it also puts you under seller/buyer protection for 45 days, were you to one day deal with someone worth talking about in this community. ;)

hope that helps!

[glowstick-juice.livejournal.com]

Aw, I wouldn't take it too personally that people went off on a tangent. Often the advice threads are also used to share related information as a resource for other community members. I'm sure no one meant any harm by it.

Other than that, looks like you got your answer, so I wish you luck navigating everything.

[wildehund.livejournal.com]

You know, on a related note:
I commissioned someone who insisted I not pay via the goods/services option and that I not put anything in the notes that would imply a business transaction because she'd get in trouble with PayPal since she doesn't have a Business Account with them.

I haven't been able to find anything on the PayPal site that says anything about not being allowed to receive money for a good/service unless you have a business account. Does anyone know if there's any truth to that? 'Cause I've accepted money for commission work via PayPal and I don't have a business account.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

That really doesn't sound right. To my knowledge the only thing a business account lets you do is give out a business name/address instead of your own real name / address :P

[wildehund.livejournal.com]

I thought it sounded hinky, but they were so sure. I figured I'd ask.

[silverfalln.livejournal.com]

The Business account also allows you to get a debit card with them. I've had a business account for several years, just for the PayPal debit card.

[startide.livejournal.com]

Personal accounts have a $500 per month withdrawal limit, I believe. Business accounts don't have a limit.

[mandyseley.livejournal.com]

Not right at all.

Either they're just trying to avoid the fees, or they're honestly confused about how PayPal works. Since they have "business" and "personal" transaction types, as well as "business" and "personal" accounts, I can see where someone might get confused and think you can ONLY use one or the other.

[jurann.livejournal.com]

Yes, because Personal Account are limited to receiving $400 per year; in order to get unlimited payments you have to upgrade to being a Business account. That's why someone would be limited.

[wildehund.livejournal.com]

This person seemed to think that PayPal would be upset she was doing any business transactions without a business account. The limit could be the reason, but that's not how it came out.

Also, where on PayPal can you find that particular rule? I've been trying to edumacate mahself about PayPal for when I re-open commissions.

[growly.livejournal.com]

Digital only commissions: Services
Mailed commissions: Goods

I don't let people send me money any other way unless it actually is a personal transaction.

[kinas.livejournal.com]

This souinds like the way to go! :D

[sovy.livejournal.com]

The safest way was already described above. Tell them to use the purchase option. Some artists adjust their prices accordingly to account for the Paypal fees, usually when they only deal with Paypal so they don't break the TOS.

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

I'm with the above, Goods or Services option only. The only time I've used personal is when it genuinely has been a personal payment (and always to the same person, my friend).